Historical Jesus didn't create a new religion.

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andersbranderud

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This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he? Did he or his followers create a new religion?
According to historical scholarship [sources: see at the bottom of this post] he practised what corresponds to today’s Orthodox Judaism all his life. His followers were called Netzarim – that is Hebrew [it means offshoot (of a olive tree)] and is a name in the Jewish Bible that is used for Messiah.

During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah.

Louis Feldman (”The Omnipresence of the G*od-Fearers,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 1986.09-10, p. 45, 58ff) observes: “the Jews were apparently extraordinarily successful in winning converts”

Year 7 B.C.E Ribi Yehoshua were born in Bethlehem. His father name was Yoseif and his mothers name was Miriam. His parents were practising Jews.

According to world-recognized authorities in this area Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group - who according to 4Q MMT practised both written and oral Torah). As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra'anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yehoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students.

He took care of sick and made it popular to pray in what corresponds to today’s Orthodox synagogues. The genealogically non-priest, Hellenist “Wicked Priest” Temple-Sadducees felt that their power was threaten by Ribi Yehoshua. They decided to get him crucified by the Romans. The Romans convicted and crucified Ribi Yehoshua year 30 C.E.

Ribi Yehoshua’s followers Netzarim were expelled from Jerusalem 135 C.E: together with all other Jews. The first Christian bishop Markos replaced the fifteenth leader of Netzarim. This Christian bishop didn’t have permission to do this. What the Paul the apostate and later the founder of Christianity did was to take some concepts that Ribi Yehoshua had taught; they distorted the concepts and included them in the religion which they practiced – Hellenism – the religion of the Greeks. (Sources: See Ecclesiastical History (EH IV.v.1-4; EH V.xii.1) )

Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

Following the teachings of the Judaic Mâshiakh (Messiah) Ribi Yehoshua – that is doing one’s utmost to practice the 613 commandments of Torah - also brings the inner joy, purpose and happiness of working intimately with him to bring about, and participate in, the Messianic era, enjoying a higher level of communion with ha-Sheim - the Creator - as party to Yirmeyâhu's (Jeremiah’s) New Covenant.

If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whom Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. Schueller House) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.

From Anders Branderud
Disciple of Netzarim (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra'anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) who are follower of Ribi Yehoshua - Messiah - in Orthodox Judaism
 
anders,

Are you intending to dialogue with others or to preach to others? I found you've made this same identical post elsewhere and your tone in this post and there suggests you're more interested in spreading your personal truth than in learning from and with others. In any case welcome to c-r.com and please review the CoC if you haven't yet read it:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/code-of-conduct-7047.html

-- Dauer
 
andersbranderud said:
There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't the Pharisees have a virtual monopoly on an institution they invented?

Your analysis lacks perspective. There is too much missing. For one thing, the Pharisees did not represent the official religion of the Judaic community at the time. The Pharisees basically invented the synagogue as a evangelistic methodology by means of which they sought to advance their political agenda vis a vis the dominant Sadducees, who were in charge of Temple.

The Pharisees were visible and popular in their day, but they were by no means the only game in town. If I recall, Pharisee means "separatist" - which implies that they were indeed a minority.

Regarding the question of whether Jesus and his followers created a new religion, I wonder if it would be helpful to consider differences between the Old and New Covenant? I think you may find that the New is substantially different from the Old and therefore capable of serving as a basis for a new religion despite some derivative elements.
 
Netti,

I don't think it's very accurate to say that the motivation of the Pharisees was political without acknowledging their spiritual motivations. It was political imo in the sense that it was a democratization of what was previously a cultic religion and the creation of a flexible methodology by which it could continue to adapt to changing situations. In that sense, it was a way to help the Jewish religion evolve and place it in a situation where it could better continue to evolve in the future. It was a way to help it survive and thrive in the diaspora. At the same time it was a way of extending holiness beyond the bounds of the Temple Cult and replacing an inherited religious authority with a meritocratic system in which one became relied upon by one's peers in matters of spirituality and religion due to one's merit and not one's birth. From the point of the pharisees forward, Judaism became more interested in holiness in time than in holiness in space, that any moment could be holy and sacred regardless of where a person found himself.

Also, it's not really accurate to say that the synagogues were intended as an evangelistic outreach. There were really three different institutions that were eventually mixed together to become what we have today, and they represent different ways in which different diaspora communities maintained spiritual practice in a Jewish context outside of Israel. There was the beit tefilah or house of prayer, the beit knesset or house of assembly and the beit midrash or house of study. These were different institutions that had some similarities but were each different.

According to the mishna the idea of the synagogue as a house of prayer began as a way that Jews outside of Israel could still remain connected to the daily qorbanot that happened in the Temple. There was a system in place so that the prayers of the people in the synagogues was connected to Temple practice. The synagogues were a way maintain Jewish community and continuity when outside of Israel. The actions of the sages in regard to outreach varied greatly.

-- Dauer
 
dauer said:
Netti,

I don't think it's very accurate to say that the motivation of the Pharisees was political without acknowledging their spiritual motivations.
Click to expand...

Whenever we talk about motivations, it almost always involves inferrences unless someone has stated their motivation. Jesus evidently made some inferences about the political ambitions of the Pharisees that suggest that some of them were putting their spiritual motivations on the backburner. For example, they made a point of making themselves visible at the Temple while ignoring the importance of a service ethic.
 
Netti,

The conversation depends largely on each of our epistemologies. I don't see the words attributed to Jesus as infallible nor do I think that they have necessarily been understood correctly nor that they can accurately be attributed to an historical Jesus nor that an historical Jesus necessarily existed. For me the text of the mishna and the gemara is going to speak a lot more to the actions of the pharisees than are the writings of the NT. That will inevitably lead to disagreement between us on this matter.

-- Dauer
 
Hi,

I feel personally that you are right in regards to Jesus and a new religion. My faith (Islaam) confirms the claim that Jesus pbuh (or any prophet that ever existed) did not intend to start a new religion because from the start (from Adam pbuh) it was all one Message: that God is One, Supreme, The Creator of all, and that we shall all submit to Him, to worship Him. But even still, despite the fact that the people (Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc) have divided into various religious groups, God speaks of His Mercy and Reward for all of those among them who believe in Him alone.
 
Jesus didn't create a new religion since the essence of Christianity existed long before the birth of Jesus. Jesus is special since he actualized an ancient perennial tradition.
 
It has to be that Jesus was born under the law and he followed it so he could accomplish the work of the Father. However, because he is the Messiah, he came as God in the flesh to die for our sins, and upon being resurrected and defeating death, God created salvation by grace in His Son's name. So everyone may be saved; therefore, everyone may now that God loves them. Also, while he was around teaching, he explained that the first priority is the love of God and his creations rather than just blindly following rules, or fashioning the worshiping of God thru man's rules. this does not make a new religion, but corrects man's behaviour to what God truly desires. So to some it may seem Jesus was creating a new religion, but to others he was just fulfilling it and making it into what it was to become.
 
Amica,

Hello,

Ribi Yehoshua said:

"Don't think that I came to uproot the Torah or the Neviim [prophets], but rather I came to reconcile them with the Oral Law of emet (truth). Should the heavens and ha-aretz (the land, particularly referring to Israel) exchange places, still, not even one ' (yod) nor one ` (qeren) of the Oral Law of Mosheh shall so much as exchange places; until it shall become that it is all being fully ratified and performed non-selectively. For whoever deletes one Oral Law from the Torah, or shall teach others such, by those in the Realm of the heavens he shall be called "deleted." Both he who preserves and he who teaches them shall be called Ribi in the Realm of the heavens. For I tell you that unless your Tzedaqah (righteousness) is over and above that of the Sophrim (Torah Scribes), and of the [probably 'Herodian'] Rabbinic-Perushim (corrupted to "Pharisees"), there is no way you will enter into the Realm of the heavens! “
NHM [Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu] 5:17-20.

and

“Take heed against false Neviim who come to you in wool like sheep, but inside they are wolves who extort. You shall recognize them by their works. Do men pick grapes from a stinging-nettle? Or figs from a thistle? So, every green tree is unable to produce evil fruit, and a dried-up tree is unable to produce good fruit."”

Ribi Yehoshua warned for false prophets who don’t produce good fruit = defined as don’t
practise the commandments in Torah. See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6.


The Jewish Bible warns us for follow prophets that come with a new religion. The Jewish Bible warns us to follow a prophet that comes with new commandments or removes commandments. Muhammed (the prophet of islam) came with new commandments and that logically implies that Torah states that we shouldn’t follow him!
Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!


From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (Netzarim, Restored 'Nazarene Jews' of Israel) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism
 
Amica,

Hello,

Ribi Yehoshua said:

"Don't think that I came to uproot the Torah or the Neviim [prophets], but rather I came to reconcile them with the Oral Law of emet (truth). Should the heavens and ha-aretz (the land, particularly referring to Israel) exchange places, still, not even one ' (yod) nor one ` (qeren) of the Oral Law of Mosheh shall so much as exchange places; until it shall become that it is all being fully ratified and performed non-selectively. For whoever deletes one Oral Law from the Torah, or shall teach others such, by those in the Realm of the heavens he shall be called "deleted." Both he who preserves and he who teaches them shall be called Ribi in the Realm of the heavens. For I tell you that unless your Tzedaqah (righteousness) is over and above that of the Sophrim (Torah Scribes), and of the [probably 'Herodian'] Rabbinic-Perushim (corrupted to "Pharisees"), there is no way you will enter into the Realm of the heavens! “
NHM [Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu] 5:17-20.

and

“Take heed against false Neviim who come to you in wool like sheep, but inside they are wolves who extort. You shall recognize them by their works. Do men pick grapes from a stinging-nettle? Or figs from a thistle? So, every green tree is unable to produce evil fruit, and a dried-up tree is unable to produce good fruit."”

Ribi Yehoshua warned for false prophets who don’t produce good fruit = defined as don’t
practise the commandments in Torah. See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6.


The Jewish Bible warns us for follow prophets that come with a new religion. The Jewish Bible warns us to follow a prophet that comes with new commandments or removes commandments. Muhammed (the prophet of islam) came with new commandments and that logically implies that Torah states that we shouldn’t follow him!
Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!


From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (Netzarim, Restored 'Nazarene Jews' of Israel) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism
 
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