God and Life on Mars

QueryGuy

QueryGuy

A guy who's Baha'i
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Question: If irrefutable signs of life were one day found on Mars (either living or in fossil form) how would this effect your theology?​

My answer: It would only strengthen my belief in God. It would mean to me that life cannot be as much of a cosmic accident as some atheists believe. It is an implicit part of my own theology that God really does exist and that he has a master plan. Finding extra-terrestrial life would be truly exciting, because it would mean God's plan is, without doubt, even bigger than humanity itself.

QG
 
huh. I think your wishiful thinking is leting you to skip logic. Whichever way it its, it doesn't prove anything about the existene of God.
 
Life is as universal a process as the formation of crystals, or the effects of gravity, and the passage of light through a vacuum. To imagine in anyway that life was entirely and solely expressed on this one planet of rock and water, in a universe of billions of galaxies, have perhaps refused to face the extensive realities and possibilities of the universe.

IMO. :)

So, indeed - I would find it theologically and scientifically illogical to believe that life were only to have existed here on earth.

On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases. :(
 
I said:
On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases. :(
Click to expand...

Perhaps so, but it's still fun to contemplate. :D
 
as of life in other planet, I'm more of a sceptic.
 
Vapour said:
as of life in other planet, I'm more of a sceptic.
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Why, though?

Do you disbelieve that salt crystals exist on any toher planets out there?

If not, why do you suppose that life is so unique to the earth and the earth only? IMO there is no logical basis for such a belief. :)
 
well, if creating life is just simple matter of mixing salt crystal, why can't the best scientist create life in laboratory. I'm quite sure, eventually, they will. But that make it obvious that the high statistical odd of something similar being duplicated in natural condition. Last time I checked, it was the case that more we know about life, more condition we disover which have to be satisfied.

Oh, but this doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. It is just matter of statistical probability and it did happen once. This happening twice is far more unlikely.
 
I don't understand why you consider it a matter of statistical probability that life should only be a single chance event in a single chance location?
 
Universe is vast and there are *infinite* possibility is an argument used for this. I often reply that in this case could there be a planet which happen to have someone who looks exactly like me with the same name. Obviously no one would think that even supposedly, the possiblity is *infinite*. Obvioulsy, particluar personality/character is something statisitically so unique that it is just inconcevable to comtemplate that it is happening again.

I'm just pointing out that universe is not finite and certain statistical *outcome* is rather unlikely to be duplicated. I'm sure open to possiblity but I'm thinking more in term of statistical possiblity rather than possibility of wishful thinking.
 
Yes, but isn't there a distinction between a physical process of the universe, and the actual physical properties of an individual structure?

Somehow the argument that life does not exist elsewhere in the universe seems like arguing that thelaws of physics will not apply on other planets.

Also - the notion of our being entirely unique on this planet seems primarily sourced through Biblical beliefs, does it not?
 
I think lot of people have misconception that creation of life is like mixing several ingredients in a cup and heating it. Well, what I'm saying that when something have to occur in right *process*, the potential of something like that occuring naturally become extremly unlikely.

Let compare that with cooking curry. Not only all the ingridients have to be there, these ingrideints have to be prepared, then put it in right *order* at the right heat. Say, what is the chance of curry being cooked naturally? Pretty close to zero. What is the chance of onion accidentally chopped to pieces, then somewhat chicken been skined and gutted, and somewhat, all the required spices being present and then a forest fire which just happent to cook the curry with right temparature?

Currently, the science is yet be able to create life from scratch even in laboratory condition. The indication is that rather ridiculously difficut conditions have to be met for something like that to occur. I think people who publicise the possiblity of life in other planet tend to imply that life is like a chemcal experiment one did in a school. You put few ingridients and puff. They are either ignorants or deliberately deciving other people and possibly themselves.

Just contemplate the probability of Chicken Tika Masara being cooked naturally in a forest in Java. Life naturally occuring is far more unlikely than that.

The life is unlikely to exist in other planet exactly because the physical conditions require for spontaneous emergence of life appear to be hard. Oh, and let not forget. Not only the life have to occur, the planet environment have to remain such that life can be sustained.
 
I'm sure I'm stealing this quote, but I don't know from whom.

"If life exists only on earth, that would be a terrible waste of space."

Surely God is not wastefull.
 
we've certainly discussed this. it doesn't present a problem for us, largely because we consider the vast majority of our own sacred Texts to apply to us alone. people are people are people - this only causes a problem if you're a literalist.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Vapour said:
Currently, the science is yet be able to create life from scratch even in laboratory condition. The indication is that rather ridiculously difficut conditions have to be met for something like that to occur.
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I'm curious - has speciation been properly demonstrated in the lab?
 
I don't want to make another link here, but if you go to HINDUISM you'll see a lot of references to possible life on Mars. This -I believe- is linked to hyperdimensional beings.
 
Those masses of text and links were removed. One step at a time, please, oscar. No need to dump everything too quickly. We can discuss point by point as required. :)
 
Okey, I understand. But it would be better if you first told me. I didn't know, I spend of lot of time to write those things and search for the benefit of other readers. Now, everything is gone. And I won't write no more. I think I better withdraw. You know, the behaviour code doesn't run unilaterally. Both of us have to be respectful, not only us but the moderators. You erased many things here and in other place.
 
Almost nothing is ever deleted here - material is simply moved to a private area named the "Sin Bin". I can e-mail you the info if you wish.
 
theology and life in the universe

QueryGuy said:
Question: If irrefutable signs of life were one day found on Mars (either living or in fossil form) how would this effect your theology?​
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I'm sorry if some valid quotes from scriptures were not shared - I know some poeple who collect such quotes (see link just below.) I know there are at least a few that speak to the issue. Personally I think it confirming but of what is it confirming??

If I may: http://bahai-seti.org/bahai-seti/ and hit "Sacred Writings on Life in the Universe" on the left. Turns out both Baha'i and Moslem sacred literature refer to the question of life (indeed intelligent life) in the universe beyond ourselves. I might elaborate that in all of the discussion human qualities and defining virtues nothing has ever spoken of bipedalism or opposable thumbs, or brain/body mass ratios etc. - just things like Reason, Honesty, Faithfulness, Trustworthiness, etc....

Baha'i References:

"Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the nature of the celestial spheres. To comprehend their nature, it would be necessary to inquire into the meaning of the allusions that have been made in the Books of old to the celestial spheres and the heavens, and to discover the character of their relationship to this physical world, and the influence which they exert upon it. Every heart is filled with wonder at so bewildering a theme, and every mind is perplexed by its mystery. God, alone, can fathom its import. The learned men, that have fixed at several thousand years the life of this earth, have failed, throughout the long period of their observation, to consider either the number or the age of the other planets. Consider, moreover, the manifold divergencies that have resulted from the theories propounded by these men. Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute."

"O people! I swear by the one true God! This is the Ocean out of which all seas have proceeded, and with which every one of them will ultimately be united. From Him all the Suns have been generated, and unto Him they will all return. Through His potency the Trees of Divine Revelation have yielded their fruits, every one of which hath been sent down in the form of a Prophet, bearing a Message to God's creatures in each of the worlds whose number God, alone, in His all-encompassing Knowledge, can reckon. This He hath accomplished through the agency of but one Letter of His Word, revealed by His Pen--a Pen moved by His directing Finger-- His Finger itself sustained by the power of God's Truth."

"'Abdu'l-Bahá stated there are other worlds than ours which are inhabited by beings capable of knowing God."

"The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings and all the elements have their nature spirits, then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment moulds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet."


Islam

Qur'án 42:29, Al Shura, "Consultation

And among His Signs
Is the creation of
The heavens and the earth,
And the living creatures
That He has scattered
Through them: and He
Has Power to gather them
Together when He wills.
 
obsessions of NASA - or the News Cycle....

I said:
On saying that, though, NASA has a rather unhealthy obsession with pushing the "life on Mars" issue. I fear that there is far more marketing than grounded realism in a lot coming out of their press releases. :(
Click to expand...

I would heartily recommend watching the video broahcasts themselves rather than the reports in the news.

NASA has an archive here
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/MER_Video_Archive.html

And some of them are here though you have to wade through many other things.
http://www.c-span.org/VideoArchives.asp?z1=&PopupMenu_Name=Science/Technology&CatCodePairs=Issue,ST;

I have to say I was much more impressed with the briefings than I was with the news bits and I've been following all this fairly closely.
 
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