Living by faith

[ciel_perdy]

I was wanting to start a thread on people's experience of living by faith. I find it an inspiring topic, and helpful for people of all faiths, as we learn to seek to trust in God for what we need.

For me, I found that when I stopped working for money about 8 years ago, and started looking for ways to give my life in service to others; be it through volunteer work, random free work for people, free hugs, other social projects, or simply just getting out on the streets day in day out sharing the teachings of Jesus with people, that God more than supplied for my needs. I found it to be true when Jesus said, ''look at the birds, look at the flowers, God feeds and clothes them...how much more will he feed and clothe you, if you work for Him!''. The ironic thing (or perhaps paradoxical thing in terms of human reasoning) was that when I stopped serving money and started serving God full time, I was eating better than I was when in a job, wearing better clothes, and had more freedom to travel, and the opportunity to actually USE my life to show love to others by giving them my time, instead of serving drinks behind a bar, for some flithy lucre.

Jesus wasn't kidding when he said he came to give us life and life more abundantly! By most people's standards I am poor. I don't possess anything personally (luke 14:33), but I still have all that I need, food, clothes and shelter. For me living by faith is forsaking all that we hold to, our jobs, our possessions, our families, our reputations, our desires and opinions, and free falling in the arms of a loving God who desires to give us a life we have only dreamnt about. Living by faith for me, is about being motivated to do whatever I do out of love, and not for greed, i.e. to make money.

I was also fortunate (well God lead me) to find other Christians who also were living the same way, which was really inspiring and helpful, because when Christians can live and work together in unity and love, it really shows the world the Kingdom of Heaven. One of the things I most appreciate about living by faith, is that now I am more motivated to work hard, because love is such a better motiavtion than greed. There is so much work God has for us to do, so much love we can put into it, it's amazing, I just need to let go of money and all that it could buy, before I found this out.

Each time I read the gospels and see Jesus living this out with the disciples, it only inspires me more, that he isn't asking us to do anything he didn't do, such is his love for us.

God is real and awesome. Jesus said ''fear not little flock, it is your fathers good will to give you the Kingdom''. I am thankful that I made that leap of faith from my own fears/greed, the fears/greed that the world teaches us, i.e. you need to work for money, you can't live without money, you'll die without money, you won't be respected without money, you need the best car, the best clothes, the nicest food, what will people think of you if you don't have these things? (blah, blah, blah...). Jesus really is the way, the truth and the life. Praise God for his teachings, and praise God that those men who followed him obeyed his teachings, and have shown us, that no matter how weak, and fearful we are, God can make us into something beautiful, if we learn to trust him like little children, being willing to be taught again, willing to let go of all our indoctrination both religiously and worldy, and receive with open arms the gift of his love and the meaning and purpose that comes with serving him and others in love.

Man...I feel pretty inspired! Well, that's some of my thoughts on living by faith, there are many examples of provision and other thoughts I can share about the practicalities of living by faith, but I have probably shared enough, and I do want to hear other peoples experiences.

I look forward to it!

Love and light,

Ciel

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

God is real and awesome. Jesus said ''fear not little flock, it is your fathers good will to give you the Kingdom''. I am thankful that I made that leap of faith from my own fears/greed, the fears/greed that the world teaches us, i.e. you need to work for money, you can't live without money, you'll die without money, you won't be respected without money, you need the best car, the best clothes, the nicest food, what will people think of you if you don't have these things? (blah, blah, blah...). Jesus really is the way, the truth and the life. Praise God for his teachings, and praise God that those men who followed him obeyed his teachings, and have shown us, that no matter how weak, and fearful we are, God can make us into something beautiful, if we learn to trust him like little children, being willing to be taught again, willing to let go of all our indoctrination both religiously and worldy, and receive with open arms the gift of his love and the meaning and purpose that comes with serving him and others in love.


Ciel

so which God is awesome and real.

and plenty of people do die due to lack of resources millions are facing starvation in parts of Africa as we speak. Where is God for them ?

 

[Gatekeeper]

so which God is awesome and real.

and plenty of people do die due to lack of resources millions are facing starvation in parts of Africa as we speak. Where is God for them ?

Working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week to maintain the mortgage on a $400,000 dollar home, and to maintain the payments on the Bayliner and Harley sitting in the driveway. God works through us, but many of us are too busy chasing money and material gain to help those who need us most. Perhaps Ceil found his/her place in the world, and has found purpose in the "plan". Perhaps Ceil has found life in service and in love. Not a bad place to be as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week to maintain the mortgage on a $400,000 dollar home, and to maintain the payments on the Bayliner and Harley sitting in the driveway.

is that you ?

God works through us, but many of us are too busy chasing money and material gain to help those who need us most. Perhaps Ceil found his/her place in the world, and has found purpose in the "plan". Perhaps Ceil has found life in service and in love. Not a bad place to be as far as I'm concerned.

yes maybe they have.

but could you tell someone who is dying of starvation that they need to live by faith.

 

[IowaGuy]

I was wanting to start a thread on people's experience of living by faith.

HI Ciel, welcome to the forums. What is your definition of "faith"?

For me, I found that when I stopped working for money about 8 years ago......not for greed, i.e. to make money.

Maybe your motivation to work was greed, but money or work does not equal greed. Jesus says the "love of money" is what is evil. Money is indeed neutral (have you read Adam Smith?). I see money as a way to feed my family and give resources back to my community. I trade part of my life energy in order to obtain these goods and services.

Even though you don't work directly in return for money to purchase goods & services anymore, it sounds like you still use goods and services (food, shelter, etc). So you are also trading some of your life energy (volunteerism) in return for goods and services that are either provided by society at large (homeless shelters, food kitchens, etc) or by people that value the service you provide (donations/gifts to you).

Some people in my community work hard and use the money they receive to do great things in the community and for their fellow man (libraries, community centers, youth scholarships, etc). So money can be used for very positive purposes. One local guy is the CEO of a fairly large company. He has donated millions of dollars to local causes and has had a much larger impact via "money" than he ever would have had just volunteering his time and not working.

I think it's great you want to give back to the world. But I don't agree that not "working for money" necessarily has a larger impact on society than those that work but donate many of their resources back to society.

I just need to let go of money and all that it could buy, before I found this out.

Sounds similar to some of Throeau's thoughts on voluntary poverty. Have you read Walden? I think you would enjoy it...

I am thankful that I made that leap of faith from my own fears/greed........Jesus really is the way, the truth and the life.

Jesus is one way that many are able to detach from greed, but not the ONLY way or ONLY truth, IMHO.

One of the most altruistic people I have ever met is atheist. Do you think "faith" is necessary to break away from greed?

 

[Gatekeeper]

is that you ?

Once upon a time perhaps, but have since sold many of my possessions, lessened my standard of living, and have started to reach out to those in need. It is a slow process, but one I am embracing. It is a much simpler life, also. I don't even have a vehicle any more, lol. I have held on to my pc and maintain a modest internet connection, however. I don't watch t.v. except for local channels, and my fun activities involve me my son and a couple fishing poles. It is a good life, a simple life, and one with much less stress. I do provide "things" for my son, though. He loves his video games!

yes maybe they have.

but could you tell someone who is dying of starvation that they need to live by faith.

How can we when much of humanity has abandoned them? I think the responsibility falls on those who have to help those who have not, but as I suggested earlier, the love of money and material gain has surpassed the love for our fellow man. 'Tis a sad state of affairs indeed. I wonder what would happen if everyone used a mere 10% of their income to help those in need instead of tithing to churches so they can build bigger buildings?

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Once upon a time perhaps, but have since sold many of my possessions, lessened my standard of living, and have started to reach out to those in need. It is a slow process, but one I am embracing. It is a much simpler life, also. I don't even have a vehicle any more, lol. I have held on to my pc and maintain a modest internet connection, however. I don't watch t.v. except for local channels, and my fun activities involve me my son and a couple fishing poles. It is a good life, a simple life, and one with much less stress. I do provide "things" for my son, though. He loves his video games!

simple is good, if it were not for my wife i would get rid of the tv.

How can we when much of humanity has abandoned them? I think the responsibility falls on those who have to help those who have not, but as I suggested earlier, the love of money and material gain has surpassed the love for our fellow man. 'Tis a sad state of affairs indeed. I wonder what would happen if everyone used a mere 10% of their income to help those in need instead of tithing to churches so they can build bigger buildings?

i have abandoned them, not something i feel good about though. But things are tight financially but i really do need to give some money to help the hungry ! But would be nice if i could give out abundance and not debt.

I never agreed with tithing, i'm not against giving though.

 

[Gatekeeper]

i have abandoned them, not something i feel good about though. But things are tight financially but i really do need to give some money to help the hungry ! But would be nice if i could give out abundance and not debt.

I never agreed with tithing, i'm not against giving though.

Financial burden prevents good people from reaching out, and you are not alone. Most HAVE abandoned those in need, even those who have an abundance have turned a blind eye. I think those who are able should give at least a little. It's tough to just take care of your own though, but money isn't the only solution.


Maybe find volunteer opportunities in your community, soup kitchens, etc. I often use allforgood.org to locate volunteer opportunities in my own community. The problem in Africa is a tough one, and many do not have the means to help out. I have yet to send a dime to help the efforts in Africa, but I do plan on making contributions when I am able.


Baby steps, NCOT; it's all we can do!

 

[IowaGuy]

The problem in Africa is a tough one, and many do not have the means to help out.

I think the main problem in Africa and many other areas of abject poverty is OVERPOPULATION. Too many mission efforts to feed the needy, reduce childhood mortality, etc and not enough efforts to empower families to control how many kids they have.

Starvation is nature's way of forcing creatures to live within the available resources. Happens all the time with the other animals on this planet. Shouldn't be a surprise when it also happens to humans.

As global population continues to increase we put more & more strain on the earth's resources. I'm not saying don't help out the starving people in the world, but instead of just sending food and bibles let's also send birth control pills and condoms...

If you don't agree then how many humans past 7 billion do you think the earth can sustain?

 

[IowaGuy]

I wonder what would happen if everyone used a mere 10% of their income to help those in need instead of tithing to churches so they can build bigger buildings?

Agree 100%. Jesus didn't need a church in order to spread his message, did he? Well, Roman Catholics might disagree, I suppose

 

[Gatekeeper]

I think the main problem in Africa and many other areas of abject poverty is OVERPOPULATION. Too many mission efforts to feed the needy, reduce childhood mortality, etc and not enough efforts to empower families to control how many kids they have.

Starvation is nature's way of forcing creatures to live within the available resources. Happens all the time with the other animals on this planet. Shouldn't be a surprise when it also happens to humans.

As global population continues to increase we put more & more strain on the earth's resources. I'm not saying don't help out the starving people in the world, but instead of just sending food and bibles let's also send birth control pills and condoms...

If you don't agree then how many humans past 7 billion do you think the earth can sustain?

I certainly agree with population control, IG. I think in many cases those who shouldn't have children are those whom have the most, and those who are more able to care for their children typically have less. Crazy world we live in, and America's welfare system doesn't help <sigh>. Population control would be ideal (IMO). It would certainly help us sustain ourselves as a collective body.

 

[wil]

Working 12 hour shifts 6 days a week to maintain the mortgage on a $400,000 dollar home, and to maintain the payments on the Bayliner and Harley sitting in the driveway. God works through us, but many of us are too busy chasing money and material gain to help those who need us most. Perhaps Ceil found his/her place in the world, and has found purpose in the "plan". Perhaps Ceil has found life in service and in love. Not a bad place to be as far as I'm concerned.

Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.”

Ellen DeGeneres quotes

Does it truly make sense??

I was wanting to start a thread on people's experience of living by faith. I find it an inspiring topic, and helpful for people of all faiths, as we learn to seek to trust in God for what we need.

Man...I feel pretty inspired! Well, that's some of my thoughts on living by faith, there are many examples of provision and other thoughts I can share about the practicalities of living by faith, but I have probably shared enough, and I do want to hear other peoples experiences.

I look forward to it!

Love and light,

Ciel

Namaste and welcome to the fray, I honor you on your path and hope to hear more.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.”

Ellen DeGeneres quotes

Does it truly make sense??

I love Ellen and no ... it doesn't make sense at all, yet this is the reality for most people.

 

[ciel_perdy]

IowaGuy

HI Ciel, welcome to the forums. What is your definition of "faith"?

My definition...believing. If your buddhist, do what Buddha taught, if you're muslim do what Muhammed taught...if you're Hindu, do what Krishna taught so on so forth. Listen to you're conscience...look for truth. Basically walk in all the light that you have.

Maybe your motivation to work was greed, but money or work does not equal greed. Jesus says the "love of money" is what is evil. Money is indeed neutral (have you read Adam Smith?). I see money as a way to feed my family and give resources back to my community. I trade part of my life energy in order to obtain these goods and services.

Actually it was Paul who said the love of oney is the root of all evil. Regardless, Jesus taught that man cannot serve two masters, and he said the two were God or Money. Both are completely different motivations for doing something, you are either doing something out of love, or you are doing it out of greed. You can't do both at the same time. So, I stopped working for money. Money is neutral, it's just coins and paper, but our motivation in getting it is NOT neutral.

Jesus taught that God, the Universe (whatever name you want to give) would feed and clothe us and look after all of our needs, IF we would work for him. So, I don't see the logic (from what Jesus said) of giving my life in order to get money to get food and clothes and to help others, when God Jesus said that God would not only provide my needs if I work for him, but the work that he has for me is actually to help others! You see, work for God you kill two birds with one stone (so to speak). Work for money, you have to give away your life for money, in order to get food and clothes, and then perhaps help someone if possible. It's not logical to me.

Even though you don't work directly in return for money to purchase goods & services anymore, it sounds like you still use goods and services (food, shelter, etc). So you are also trading some of your life energy (volunteerism) in return for goods and services that are either provided by society at large (homeless shelters, food kitchens, etc) or by people that value the service you provide (donations/gifts to you).

Well no, to truly work for God and to work for love, one must do their work without expectation of getting something in return. Often times my friends and I really have to stress to people when we do free work that we don't want anything from them, because people so often have to give something in return. Call it human conditioning or whatever, but I have the distinct feeling people feel that if they can give something in return, then they are at least proving in their own minds, that I/we must have been doing what we were doing in order to get something else. That way they can rationalize away the message we are sharing with them in our actions. Anyway, Jesus didn't have a problem with accepting help from others and nor do I (depending on the circumstances), and just accepting help does not negate what he taught, i.e. God can provide for us without us prostituting our lives for money.

Some people in my community work hard and use the money they receive to do great things in the community and for their fellow man (libraries, community centers, youth scholarships, etc). So money can be used for very positive purposes. One local guy is the CEO of a fairly large company. He has donated millions of dollars to local causes and has had a much larger impact via "money" than he ever would have had just volunteering his time and not working.

Sure money can be used for positive means. However, one generally does not get rich by being nice and looking after the poor...quite the opposite. He may have had an impact with his aid, but what impact has he had while making all this money? Also, how do you know that he wouldn't have had a greater impact if he just volunteered his time and wasn't working for money? Jesus I think has had the greatest impact that anyone alive has ever had, and he didn't even work for money, and he told those who wanted to follow him in the Way to quit their jobs, sell all their possessions and show love to the poor. Considering his wisdom and my experience from following him, I'll stick with his plan for making an impact.

I think it's great you want to give back to the world. But I don't agree that not "working for money" necessarily has a larger impact on society than those that work but donate many of their resources back to society.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinon. But we don't really know though do we. Why, because no one WANTS to stop working for money and all that money can buy, in order to give their lives freely in love for others, without a care about how their needs will be met. I guess one point in my favor though, is look at how messed up the world is precisely because people work for more and more money (greed). Considering Jesus taught things that go completely against the world and lead to the Kingdom of Heaven, i.e. love, sharing, equality, I wager that if everyone tried what he said sincerely, then you would have something to base your conclusion on.

Jesus is one way that many are able to detach from greed, but not the ONLY way or ONLY truth, IMHO.

Again, fair enough. I believe that truth is everywhere and in ever religion. I guess I just see all truth as Jesus, whether it was spoken by Krishna or Budha, or the drunk on the street who shouts ''shit happens''. However, saying this, I have not found anything in any religion that is so clear, so practical, so true, as the words of Jesus recorded in the gospels, one only needs to do what he said to realize where those words come from.

One of the most altruistic people I have ever met is atheist. Do you think "faith" is necessary to break away from greed?[/QUOTE]

Yes, that atheist must believe something in order to be the most alturistic person you have ever met. He has faith in something. I don't know what, perhaps it's in God, and he doesn't even know. But I do believe in order to break free from greed one must have faith in something, they must believe something is better than greed in order to break free from it. And considering that greed is generally all about materialism and getting pleasure/things now, and that the solution to greed is something spiritual, i.e. unseen, then yes, I believe that anyone who breaks free from Greed is doing so in faith.

I believe that there are agnostics and atheists who are walking with God and who are in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact generally from my experience it is atheist and agnostics who can see the truth in what Jesus said more so than those who profess to believe in him.

 

[IowaGuy]

I think in many cases those who shouldn't have children are those whom have the most, and those who are more able to care for their children typically have less.

Reverse Darwinism

And, ironically, most countries with the fastest population growth are those least able to feed themselves

 

[Gatekeeper]

Reverse Darwinism

And, ironically, most countries with the fastest population growth are those least able to feed themselves

Yup .......

 

[donnann]

Yup .......

I personally believe in veganism but do you know that over half the worlds grain population is used to feed stuff animals? If the world switched to a vegan diet no one would starve. Thats just a fact. Got that fact from a Linda McCartney cookbook...smart lady.

 

[donnann]

I personally believe in veganism but do you know that over half the worlds grain population is used to feed stuff animals? If the world switched to a vegan diet no one would starve. Thats just a fact. Got that fact from a Linda McCartney cookbook...smart lady.

Aside from that it is barbaric to eat animals. People just dont think about it cause that is just how they grew up.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I personally believe in veganism but do you know that over half the worlds grain population is used to feed stuff animals? If the world switched to a vegan diet no one would starve. Thats just a fact. Got that fact from a Linda McCartney cookbook...smart lady.

I've actually heard that before and it makes sense. I am presently trying to wean myself off meat, but I find it difficult to do. Maybe one day, eh?

 

[IowaGuy]

So, I stopped working for money. Money is neutral, it's just coins and paper, but our motivation in getting it is NOT neutral.

Speak for yourself; your motivation must have been greed. Working for money is not necessarily evil as money is inherently neutral, as you admit. Many people work for money which is then used to feed their family and also make the world a better place. Plus the taxes paid on their wages help support many social causes such as food stamps, health insurance for the poor/elderly, etc. This is a good thing, IMHO. In fact, if people made more money we could have even more tax revenue to put towards social programs.

Jesus taught that God, the Universe (whatever name you want to give) would feed and clothe us and look after all of our needs, IF we would work for him.

Native Americans believed basically the same about the Great Spirit (excpet for they didn't have to work for Him to get their food/clothes). Hunter-gatherer societies across the world fed & clothed themselves for 200,000 years before Jesus was ever on the scene.

Except for that doesn't work so well anymore in a world of 7 billion people... But now you blame their fellow man for not helping out?

So, I don't see the logic (from what Jesus said) of giving my life in order to get money to get food and clothes and to help others, when God Jesus said that God would not only provide my needs if I work for him, but the work that he has for me is actually to help others! Work for money, you have to give away your life for money, in order to get food and clothes, and then perhaps help someone if possible.

OK, so how about a schoolteacher, do you believe they are helping others in society? How about a doctor, is she helping others? Homebuilders, are they helping provide shelter for society? The guy that installs your Internet connection so you can post to this forum and learn more about others' belief systems, is he helping others? Farmers so people can eat healthy, affordable food? The person who works in a factory making medicine? The researcher working on a cure for diseases? The list goes on and on...

Many people, through their WORK FOR "MONEY," are providing an essential and valuable service to society. For which they are compensated in barter for other essential goods and services. Early societies used pure barter, we use money instead to hold this "barter value" until it is traded for something else.

Money is not the issue. You apparently connect money with greed, which is not the case for many people in this world (although I admit there are way too many that love money). People that work for the love of money, yes that is wrong IMHO. But many people work at a cause they are passionate about, which benefits society and which also allows them to meet their life's basic necessities; similar to what you are doing by "volunteering." Plus their taxes are used to benefit society at large.

God can provide for us without us prostituting our lives for money.

Just not those that are starving in Africa

Why, because no one WANTS to stop working for money and all that money can buy, in order to give their lives freely in love for others, without a care about how their needs will be met.

But there are many in this world whose needs are not met, you have acknowledged many in Africa are in need. Are you suggesting they are not working for Jesus or freely loving others?

I believe that there are agnostics and atheists who are walking with God and who are in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact generally from my experience it is atheist and agnostics who can see the truth in what Jesus said more so than those who profess to believe in him.

This has also been my experience with agnostics/atheists, even though they don't call themselves "Christian" or need G!d to provide them with a handbook of morals.