Mob Rule

[bananabrain]

You've reminded me of the old expression: "Only the boring are bored."

yeah, this from someone who can keep a non-argument going for 66 pages and constantly, constantly repeats himself. you've even used that expression before to me and i'll say what i said before in response:

you don't know me, so leave the personal remarks out of it, or face the consequences.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[seattlegal]

Well Nick, I must certainly congratulate you on framing your argument in the tried and true style of the self-fulfilling prophecy. {All puns intended in every sense of the words. }

Now that that is out of the way, can we actually discuss this issue without all of the BS? I think China Cat Sunflower gave the most honest answer in saying that children's sexuality is indeed a scary subject to approach, much less discuss. However, with our children going through puberty at younger and younger ages, it is a subject that seriously needs addressing.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I think its interesting to note that Nick created the porn #2 thread the day that bandit returned breifly to post.. I recalled it at the time and since bandit and Nick were going round and round I figured he was trying to rouse bandit up...

 

[Nick_A]

Well Nick, I must certainly congratulate you on framing your argument in the tried and true style of the self-fulfilling prophecy. {All puns intended in every sense of the words. }

Now that that is out of the way, can we actually discuss this issue without all of the BS? I think China Cat Sunflower gave the most honest answer in saying that children's sexuality is indeed a scary subject to approach, much less discuss. However, with our children going through puberty at younger and younger ages, it is a subject that seriously needs addressing.

I don't know if it is possible. I would apprciate discussing it with you since a woman's opinion is essential when trying to describe what a young woman is feeling. Secondly, smart aleky one liners and righteous indignation are disrespectful concerning an issue that has lead to suicide and you seem more open minded then to resort to these techniques.. But since all this negativity rules the day, you tell me if is possible?

If we're not gonna pass the buck, the question becomes one of personal responsibility. You know that those kids maliciously attacked that girl because it is what they've learned to do. The idea that he who is without sin should cast the first stone is foreign to them. They don't feel the ethics behind it. Can you blame them if modern movies are about justifying condemnation?

People should relate honestly about these things but it requires admitting our weakneses and accepting responsibility for the total lack of understanding the necessity of values in society. We don't "feel" their meaning as a positive but prefer to condemm as a negative.
If negativity didn't sell, it wouldn't be out there but it does. To ask the police to provide meaning that we are incapable of providing is a quick way into the gutter.

Police should protect the young from harm and not from themselves. It is the parents job to supply such wisdom. But if they are caught up with "Desperate Housewives" and the Sopranos," what can they communicate?

 

[Nick_A]

I think its interesting to note that Nick created the porn #2 thread the day that bandit returned breifly to post.. I recalled it at the time and since bandit and Nick were going round and round I figured he was trying to rouse bandit up...

Bandit isn't the issue. The issue is our inability to feel the worth of essential human values. This collective loss has lead to young lost souls that commit suicide. Which is more important to you: teen suicides or Bandit's arrival?

 

[Nick_A]

yeah, this from someone who can keep a non-argument going for 66 pages and constantly, constantly repeats himself. you've even used that expression before to me and i'll say what i said before in response:

you don't know me, so leave the personal remarks out of it, or face the consequences.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Of course. I would never refer to you as "someone who is so determined to make a prat of himself in public?" Perish the thought!

 

[Faithfulservant]

Bandit isn't the issue. The issue is our inability to feel the worth of essential human values. This collective loss has lead to young lost souls that commit suicide. Which is more important to you: teen suicides or Bandit's arrival?

I think you're a drama queen and I think you sidestep questions or comments at will. I think you like all the attention focused on you and negative attention is better than none at all.. Im sorry if you didnt get positive reinforcements as a child. I think thats the real tragedy.

I dont see where you have contributed much to some of these threads so I dont pay any attention to you or play along with your games. i raise my children by praising their achievements and paying little or no attention to them acting out unless they are causing harm or harming themselves so that they dont become drama queens and attention seekers.

I believe you are doing a diservice to yourself by acting out like this. You have little or no respect by some very wonderful people that I consider my friends. You might think about what you are wanting from this forum. just a thought

 

[seattlegal]

Secondly, smart aleky one liners and righteous indignation are disrespectful concerning an issue that has lead to suicide and you seem more open minded then to resort to these techniques.. But since all this negativity rules the day, you tell me if is possible?

So is setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy scenario regarding this subject, wouldn't you say?

I'm willing to talk about it as long as you're willing to drop the BS.

 

[Nick_A]

So is setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy scenario regarding this subject, wouldn't you say?

I'm willing to talk about it as long as you're willing to drop the BS.

Why should it have to be a self fulfilling prophesy? It is a simple statement phrased in a way to set up an intentional contradiction.

People want to label these girls as pornographers and their bodies as pornographic without regard to intent. Doing this means that the creator of these bodies is a pornographer.

The choice is whether to be insulted or see that God as a pornographer is an obvious absurdity. If it is absurd then we cannot rely upon blanket condemnation and the police but rather try to begin to understand why these things are as they are.

What do you see as the BS? Do you disagree that the problem is the result of our collective ignorance?

Cutsey poohing the issue does no good. It gives the impression that tomorrow will be better. It cannot because of our collective ignorance. I can cutsey pooh it with the best of them but what is the sense? Without admitting that the problem is us, it is just business as usual. The alternative is to be honest and admit our ignorance which isn't a crime. The only ethical crime is if we deny it and resort to condemnation and righteous indignation to compensate for it.

In contrast I define the BS as all that is done to cover for our inability to understand and experience the "good" behind "values" and be open to some honest contemplation as to the nature of sex, sex energy, and the body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nick_A]

I think you're a drama queen and I think you sidestep questions or comments at will. I think you like all the attention focused on you and negative attention is better than none at all.. Im sorry if you didnt get positive reinforcements as a child. I think thats the real tragedy.

I dont see where you have contributed much to some of these threads so I dont pay any attention to you or play along with your games. i raise my children by praising their achievements and paying little or no attention to them acting out unless they are causing harm or harming themselves so that they dont become drama queens and attention seekers.

I believe you are doing a diservice to yourself by acting out like this. You have little or no respect by some very wonderful people that I consider my friends. You might think about what you are wanting from this forum. just a thought

If concern for teens becoming lost souls through our justified ignorance is being a drama queen, then I am one.

 

[seattlegal]

Why should it have to be a self fulfilling prophesy? It is a simple statement phrased in a way to set up an intentional contradiction.

People want to label these girls as pornographers and their bodies as pornographic without regard to intent. Doing this means that the creator of these bodies is a pornographer.

The choice is whether to be insulted or see that God as a pornographer is an obvious absurdity. If it is absurd then we cannot rely upon blanket condemnation and the police but rather try to begin to understand why these things are as they are.

What do you see as the BS? Do you disagree that the problem is the result of our collective ignorance?

Cutsey poohing the issue does no good. It gives the impression that tomorrow will be better. It cannot because of our collective ignorance. I can cutsey pooh it with the best of them but what is the sense? Without admitting that the problem is us, it is just business as usual. The alternative is to be honest and admit our ignorance which isn't a crime. The only ethical crime is if we deny it and resort to condemnation and righteous indignation to compensate for it.

In contrast I define the BS as all that is done to cover for our inability to understand and experience the "good" behind "values" and be open to some honest contemplation as to the nature of sex, sex energy, and the body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Nick, here is something you might want to review: self-fulfilling prophecy: Definition from Answers.com

 

[Nick_A]

Nick, here is something you might want to review: self-fulfilling prophecy: Definition from Answers.com

Causing something to happen by believing it will occur. For example, forecasting the election of a particular political candidate may have the effect of convincing enough people to cast favorable votes, thereby creating an electoral victory as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Where most here would be considered secular Interfaith, I am transcendent Interfaith. From the secular perspective we are all good and seek to justify it while from the transcendent perspective our inner lives are in chaos leading to the human condition and the world the way it is. This isn't to say we are bad but rather just "asleep" so our lives are lived for us rather then us living our lives. We are not present during our lives but rather "asleep." No condemnation or anything else but just asleep. So for those interested in transcendent interfaith there is no need for righteous indignation, accusations, condemnation or other such delights but rather the willingness to strive to awaken. It is true that Jesus, Plato, and others, have said that many find this offensive and unwilling to verify if this is true for themselves.

Since I believe this to be true and the world does reject these things perhaps it is a self fulfilling prophesy but that is not to deny its importance.

There was a chance to take the next step after admitting the absurdity that a photo of a young girl's body is by definition pornographic requiring God to be a pornographer and police intervention, and come to admit that we don't know how to address the issue from the point of view of the girl's inner life.

I don't see how I could create such resistance that results in mob rule forcing the closing of a thread just from my belief that we are ignorant of the human condition so that we are unable to relate to creative adventurous young girls and to these essential questions so resort to condemnation and demands for police intervention to arrest them as pornographers.

We had the shot to question the nature of values and why we cannot communicate them in a positive fashion to the young but now it has past. So that's that.

 

[seattlegal]

Where most here would be considered secular Interfaith, I am transcendent Interfaith. From the secular perspective we are all good and seek to justify it while from the transcendent perspective our inner lives are in chaos leading to the human condition and the world the way it is. This isn't to say we are bad but rather just "asleep" so our lives are lived for us rather then us living our lives. We are not present during our lives but rather "asleep." No condemnation or anything else but just asleep. So for those interested in transcendent interfaith there is no need for righteous indignation, accusations, condemnation or other such delights but rather the willingness to strive to awaken. It is true that Jesus, Plato, and others, have said that many find this offensive and unwilling to verify if this is true for themselves.

Since I believe this to be true and the world does reject these things perhaps it is a self fulfilling prophesy but that is not to deny its importance.

Nick, the next thing I would suggest is that you read the book of Jonah, keeping in mind the words you have written here.

There was a chance to take the next step after admitting the absurdity that a photo of a young girl's body is by definition pornographic requiring God to be a pornographer and police intervention, and come to admit that we don't know how to address the issue from the point of view of the girl's inner life.

I don't see how I could create such resistance that results in mob rule forcing the closing of a thread just from my belief that we are ignorant of the human condition so that we are unable to relate to creative adventurous young girls and to these essential questions so resort to condemnation and demands for police intervention to arrest them as pornographers.

Let me clue you in: it wasn't the article about the girl sexting and later committing suicide that lead to the closing of the threads in question.
It was your self-fulfilling prophecy presentation that lead to the closing of the threads. Drop the BS, and the threads will likely stop getting closed.

We had the shot to question the nature of values and why we cannot communicate them in a positive fashion to the young but now it has past. So that's that.

Indeed, we did have the opportunity, but it was spoiled by all the self-fulfilling prophecy BS. Which is more important: addressing the issue of the young people, or protecting, enforcing, and propping up your so-called esoteric posturing? {Let me give you a clue here: lies need to be propped up, but the truth can stand on its own.}

 

[Nick_A]

Nick, the next thing I would suggest is that you read the book of Jonah, keeping in mind the words you have written here.


Let me clue you in: it wasn't the article about the girl sexting and later committing suicide that lead to the closing of the threads in question.
It was your self-fulfilling prophecy presentation that lead to the closing of the threads. Drop the BS, and the threads will likely stop getting closed.

Indeed, we did have the opportunity, but it was spoiled by all the self-fulfilling prophecy BS. Which is more important: addressing the issue of the young people, or protecting, enforcing, and propping up your so-called esoteric posturing? {Let me give you a clue here: lies need to be propped up, but the truth can stand on its own.}

This like like saying the girl got raped because she had the wrong dress on.

Be more specific. What exactly are these lies? What truths that stand on their own am I missing?

 

[seattlegal]

This like like saying the girl got raped because she had the wrong dress on.

Be more specific. What exactly are these lies? What truths that stand on their own am I missing?

Let me speak plainly here. You would rather exploit these girls for your own self-fulfillment by using them as an opportunity to shove your esoteric/secular overlay down everyone's throats than to drop your dichotomous overlay in order to address the problem. That speaks volumes.

 

[greymare]

blah blah blah, choir, blah blah mob rule, blah blah, suicide, blah blah platos cave, blah blah, needlman, blah blah, simone (something or other), blah blah rightreous indignation, blah blah blah blah.. (did i leave anything out?)... oh yeah, blah blah obama, blah blah, live birth certificate, blah blah blah.



BLAH!

 

[citizenzen]

I really shouldn't jump into this. The thread feels more like an excuse to abuse Nick than any type of intellectual exchange.

I am compelled however, to point out to Nick that I've picked up on a common theme he often trot out to illustrate his points: illicit sex.

In this thread Nick once again chose to use rape.

Bravo. Well played.



Rape, Naked Children, Pornographers, Caves, Beasts...

There's a dark and strange little world inside that mind.

 

[Nick_A]

Let me speak plainly here. You would rather exploit these girls for your own self-fulfillment by using them as an opportunity to shove your esoteric/secular overlay down everyone's throats than to drop your dichotomous overlay in order to address the problem. That speaks volumes.

sg

This doesn't make sense. How am I exploiting these girls by asserting the harm done by refusing to admit that we do not "understand" the necessity of "values" so as to transmit their "good" them to the young is real exploitation? Our collective ignorance in matters of sex, sex energy, and the body have contributed to creating a spiritual emptiness and associated loss of inner meaning that has created these lost souls some of which have felt the need to commit suicide.

Actually our refusal to admit the problem and our collective ignorance allows us to feed financially off their condition by enticing them to try and spend their way into "meaning."

We seem to have different conceptions of what "exploitation" actually means.

When grey writes: "blah blah blah, choir, blah blah mob rule, blah blah, suicide, blah......." it is just typical of the mindset that refuses to be open to the problem and prefers denial for self justification.

Unfortunately it just seems clear that other than a minority, we will deny being open to the question in preference to expressing righteous indignation and condemnation. It has become our way.

Accepting an Oprah, Dr. Phil approach as a feel good compromise is meaningless other then to have us feel good. The hole in the heart we've created, perpetuate, and justify in our young is still growing.

 

[Nick_A]

I really shouldn't jump into this. The thread feels more like an excuse to abuse Nick than any type of intellectual exchange.

I am compelled however, to point out to Nick that I've picked up on a common theme he often trot out to illustrate his points: illicit sex.

In this thread Nick once again chose to use rape.

Bravo. Well played.



Rape, Naked Children, Pornographers, Caves, Beasts...

There's a dark and strange little world inside that mind.

I prefer using direct examples to illustrate the harm I am referring to. It cannot be done with visions of sugarplums. If Plato uses the term "beast" and "cave" I prefer his depth in illustrating the human condition then getting lost in fantasy butterflys when considering teen suicide as a ddirect result of our justified collective ignorance.

 

[citizenzen]

I prefer using direct examples to illustrate the harm I am referring to. It cannot be done with visions of sugarplums.

You prefer to shock people.

So do 13 year-old boys.