Have we replaced our animal instincts?

coberst

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Have we replaced our animal instincts?

We are also creatures “prone to anxiety, extremely helpless in his natural state, almost entirely devoid of instincts.” Therein lay the paradox. ”Instead of remaining free and broadly adaptive, the new symbolic animal immediately became ‘symbolically re-instinctivized’ almost as solidly as the other animals were physio-chemically instinctivized.”


Sapiens evolved into creatures with symbolic structured modes of behavior. Human consciousness extended wo/man’s reach to infinity—wherein infinity is within the extended reach of human imagination. We are creatures with the ability to create symbolically a virtual reality that extends out to the limits of our imagination.

Evolution has programmed the animal world to act automatically in certain ways under certain conditions. Humans have lost a good bit of these programmed responses because we have an ego that places our responses on hold until we have had time to reflect and construct a non-programmed response.

Humans create the world we live in; it is a virtual world constructed principally because of the neurosis we have developed in the first five years of our life.

If we try to think about a virtual world I think we must start with a natural world so that we have a starting point, something with which we can compare. What is a natural world? Is it what we ‘see’? Is it the ‘thing-in-itself that Kant tells us about? Depending upon which is a natural world I think we can begin to realize that the world we live in is a virtual world. We are creatures who create symbolic worlds that are more important to us than the world we ‘see’.

Water boarding is a good example of what we feel about death. Being sentenced to death for a crime is a good idea of what we think about the importance of death. The things people do to prolong their life one more day is a good example. We have been very successful about hiding these anxieties from our self that we have created an inferior culture in our pursuit after something that we do not allow our self to think about. Self deception is our greatest enemy and our closest companion.

I am claiming that the reaction we feel when water boarding or claustrophobia is that very fear of death. If someone asks me what is the fear of death I will say that if they can imagine the feeling of being water boarded they are feeling the fear of death. Our rather blaze attitude that we say we feel about dying is our self deception.

This fear of death that we work so hard to hide from our self is one of the major reasons that we have created a virtual realty and this virtual world we have created is going to kill us. Now ain’t that ironic?

Quotes from Escape from Evil by Ernest Becker

Do you think that humans have replaced the basic animal instincts with symbolic type instincts as the author notes?


 
Welll, I get extraordinarily claustrophobic and I also have a good idea about the fear of death. I'd say that I'd take claustrophobia any day over the fear of death. It's bad, but not as cripplingly bad, I guess... Waterboarding is more like it. But that actually is the fear of death, I mean, I'm sure that some have died during that kind of thing, it seems like it wouldn't be a ero risk thing, yano? So people would have a reason to actually fear that they might die, because they might. But a human could say the same about walking down a street. People are intelligent enough to know just how fragile they are, and if a person didn't downplay that fear, it could turn to an almost constant thing. I mean, what couldn't kill you, right?

Maybe humans wrap death in symbols and metaphors because we are the only creatures that think enough about death to experience that fear when they aren't actually in danger of dying or about to die at that moment. No other animal that I know of can grasp that fear, know that they will die so totally, unless they are in a situation when they most likely are indeed about to die. Bigger brains give us all sorts of fun new hurdles to work around. I think that we do have instincts. They've been dulled considerably because we so often have no need of them, but they remain in a diminished form. We still go into fight or flight mentality when faced with danger.

I believe, in the world we live in, instincts would do little but hinder us, unless we lived a life of constant danger. Our big brains develop coping mechanisms, hardwiring us to fit into the world that we are born.

So, yes, I believe we do. But I also believe that it is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a thing.
 
Welll, I get extraordinarily claustrophobic and I also have a good idea about the fear of death. I'd say that I'd take claustrophobia any day over the fear of death. It's bad, but not as cripplingly bad, I guess... Waterboarding is more like it. But that actually is the fear of death, I mean, I'm sure that some have died during that kind of thing, it seems like it wouldn't be a ero risk thing, yano? So people would have a reason to actually fear that they might die, because they might. But a human could say the same about walking down a street. People are intelligent enough to know just how fragile they are, and if a person didn't downplay that fear, it could turn to an almost constant thing. I mean, what couldn't kill you, right?

Maybe humans wrap death in symbols and metaphors because we are the only creatures that think enough about death to experience that fear when they aren't actually in danger of dying or about to die at that moment. No other animal that I know of can grasp that fear, know that they will die so totally, unless they are in a situation when they most likely are indeed about to die. Bigger brains give us all sorts of fun new hurdles to work around. I think that we do have instincts. They've been dulled considerably because we so often have no need of them, but they remain in a diminished form. We still go into fight or flight mentality when faced with danger.

I believe, in the world we live in, instincts would do little but hinder us, unless we lived a life of constant danger. Our big brains develop coping mechanisms, hardwiring us to fit into the world that we are born.

So, yes, I believe we do. But I also believe that it is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a thing.

I would say that natural selection, i.e. evolution, has taken a dramatic turn since the birth of human consciousness. Natural selection produced the human species and the human species has derailed natural selection. World wide the species that survive, including the human species, depends upon human created meaning and no longer upon natural selection.

We have become meaning creating creatures and have developed a high tech society that overwhelms the process of natural selection. The selection of what species will survive in the future no longer depends upon the process of natural selection but depends upon the process of human meaning creation.

Who am I? Of what value is my life? The child, when asking these questions, is saying that s/he wants to be recognized as an object of value. S/he wants to know how well s/he measures up as a hero.

Freud saw that the underlying foundation for these feelings and ambitions was the “utter self-centeredness and self-preoccupation, each person’s feeling that he is the one in creation, that his life represents all life” he tallied all this up and labeled it narcissism. Nietzsche saw this healthy expression as one of the “Will to Power” and glory.

This represents the “inevitable drive to cosmic heroism by the animal who had become man.”

Culture provides the vehicle for heroic action directed toward strengthening self-esteem. The task of the ego is to navigate through the culture in such a way as to diminish anxiety, and the ego does this by learning “to chose actions that are satisfying and bring praise rather than blame…Therefore, if the function of self-esteem is to give the ego a steady buffer against anxiety, wherever and whenever it might be imagined, one crucial function of culture is to make continued self-esteem possible.

Culture’s task is “to provide the individual with the conviction that he is an object of primary value in a world of meaningful action.”


The cultural hero system whether religious, primitive, or scientific is “still a mythical hero-system in which people serve in order to earn a feeling of primary value, of cosmic specialness, of ultimate usefulness to creation, of unshakable meaning. They earn this feeling by carving out a place in nature, by building an edifice that reflects human value: a temple, a cathedral, a totem pole, a skyscraper, a family that spans three generations.”

How does the American culture perform its task?

I claim that the maximization of production and consumption is the principal means for the satisfaction of self-esteem for its citizens. It is through the active participation as a member of a community that strives constantly to maximize the production and consumption of goods that the American citizen best satisfies his or her drive for “cosmic action”.

We are all captives of our cultural systems. Whether the cultural system dictates the stoning of one’s sister for destroying family honor or a system that finds cosmic heroism through a process that maximizes the rate at which we consume our planet.

Our culture is constructed from the meaning that we create. The future of our species and of all life is dependent upon our comprehension of our self and how we use that comprehension in developing a better meaning structure than we have done so far.


Quotes from The Birth and Death of Meaning Ernest Becker

 
Exactly, our big brains are the culprit. It is our weapon, our defense mechanism (ot unlike a smake's venom) and we use it. In using it, we created a world beyond nature and natural selection. We are no longer a part of natures version of natural selection, and therefore have created our own process.

We need something that makes people more desirable for reproduction, and since we have these big brains, and think in metaphors and symbolism, we create our own desirable qualities, heroism being one of them.

As far as humans having the edge on ego, animals have little if any concept of others being of equal value or as important as themselves. In fact, I give humans credit, mostly due to their big brains, for even being able to see others in those terms at all, even if it isn't usually acted upon.

I agree, we're in all new territory now as a species, a territory where we create the rules. It's a scary notion, actually...
 
I doubt we have all replaced/lost our instincts..... But we have certainly picked up alot of unnatural traits and habits along the way sure... Example where the hell did the meat eating come from??? lol, we're not designed for such things. Another main recognising trait of a human, is it's relentless self destructive nature.... That, just can't be right, the instinct of an animal is to survive.... We have kind of distorted and royally... screwed up the instinct of survival.....

Survival of the fittest, I think is slightly modified..... But that is still ever present.... It can clearly be seen in capitalist groups..

Imort, just because something has a big brain.... Doesn't make it smart..... Nor does it mean it uses it to it's full potential... Creatures do not have equals? Or credit/reward systems? They do...... Look at any pack, herd, group mentality creature.... (excluding man) Equality? What of the sheep lol.....

Or get out your magnifiying glass... And look even deeper, the tiny ant... The wasp, the bee, the termite..... These all have yes true one leader... But the entire population, the rest, is equal...... And it is harmony and there is no thinking, it is just done, all falls into place they become an unstoppable efficient organised unit of one.

One leader, One goal, One side just gimmy gimmy gimmy!!!!! one vision! lol.....

Look at our cities..... Compare that to a hive a nest a hill, All these creatures swarming around.... Chaotic.... look at the ants swarm the bees swarm in the honeycombe... Hectic? look closer.... Look how with ease they move and flow, no car horns either! :D

We are so small, yet assume we are so big lol.... We control nothing.... We just think we do. Another ugly trait of man.
 
When I mean that people aren't the only ones having ego, I just meant that all animals have ego as well, it's what makes an animal want to keep itself alive. All creatures have a perspective, a sense of self, however basic. What most don't have, and we do, as I said, because of our big brains, is something that reaches beyond that, and can actually conceptualize sacrificing what we want for the greater good.

Animals do this all the time, your right, but they don't sit about and think about it, I'd wager. They don't plan it, it's simply instinct. I think that's a better way to do business, doing instead of thinking and all that. I by no means mean that we're better, or more advanced as a species because of this, but we are different, and I think the ability to sit and think on ideas or plans for a time instead of just doing, has made it so that we do shape our own environment to some extent, and so our realities.

Animals are awesome, and they have awesome abilities of their own to cope with whatever nature throws at em. All I'm saying is that our big brains are our claws, or sharp teeth, or poison. They're our camouflage, and our armor plating. It's just our tool, and we've taken it, and used it. It's just different, and it's thrown us into a world where our lives don't depend on what nature throws at us, but nature depends on what we throw at it. I'd say that says a lot about how we live in a world that we to a great extent, greater than any other creature, shape. Like I've said in so many other posts, it's not a good thing, or a thing to be proud of, or a bad thing necessarily. It's just a thing.

We're very small in the grand scheme of things, but small is relative... It's always relative...
 
I wanna be a kitty!

But we do shape the world. Think of all the trash! the segregation of forests, and junk, think of all the parking lots, and the forest clearing and the overfishing and strip mining.

So, like, we do shape the world. Just not really in any way that's good... usually...
 
I guess..... Just when people say "man shapes the world" I get this idea in my head, that they believe we actually are the fate of the planet... lol, like we are big enough to be in control.... Sure we effect some things.... But whatever is going to happen, will happen, man has no control over the path of the planet *shrugs*
 
I watched a programme on the BBC that studied sexual attraction ... and what came out of it is that we are directed and make fundamental choices according to our animal instincts before we even consciously consider whether we like someone or not.

The series was extensive, and went through all the senses with surprising results.

So from their evidence it seems our animal instincts work as they've always done. We might presume we have replaced them with some intellectual or rational set of decision-making processes, but the reality would seem to be that those decisions just follow the instinctive decisions which are over and done before the rational faculty even gets involved.

Thomas
 
We like to give things names Thomas :) That's what we do..... "love" and so on :D And then we go even further to take advantage of it with other names.... "valentines" for example with love.


Oh example while on about sexual preferences and such.... Scientists claim women with smaller wasits and larger hips are smarter than their peers.... *looks for a link quickly* http://www.medindia.net/news/Women-...sts-are-Cleverer-Than-Their-Peers-29234-1.htm UNF....

Also women with the hour glass shape are deemed more attractive... Also by majority (porn, fashion and so on.....)

Perhaps survival of the fitest? As women with smaller waistes and large hips are also of "breeding quality" They are known (majority at least maybe some exceptions *shrugs*) to reproduce and bare children. So that is why a male is attracted as he can sense? perhaps that it is a suiting mate...
 
Lol. But what about blonds? J/k. Apparently gentlemen prefer them, yano. Is that like some instinct? lol.

I think we still have our instincts, as a species, but we can talk ourselves outta following them, or certain thing about the way we think might negate our instincts as soon as we have them. Our instincts can also vary, like not all people's instincts are the same.

An example of talking ourselves outta instincts would be like the guy that jumps on a live grenade to try to save his friends, totally telling his survival instinct to shove off.

People are strange little creatures, alright, lol...
 
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People are strange little creatures...
Ya figure?
 
part 2 (*got cut off*)
 

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lol I'd never jump on a live grenade.... Throw the smallest dude on it. *jog on mate, save my arse!*

lol I remeber once we had a load of kids in our base for work experience.. And we took them to the armory lol... And took them into the rifle cab... Which we then sealed off once everyone was in... It's like a 12 inch thick door lol...

Then we explained to them about some of the rifles... And finished with opening a live box of grenades and showing them one... Pickles (my friend) took the pin out of one, and was like "if you hold the clip down this is totally safe, it is only when you release the clip the grenande becomes activated..." Then offered one of the kids a chance to hold it without the pin -out-... And as he was passing it to him he stumbled... And dropped it in the room!!!!

Place went freaking nuts! lol.... Obviously it was a dud training grenade for throwing practices and skirmishes lol.. Classic.. Sorry back to the story at hand.
 
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