islam, abraham?

vinny

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im curious, why is islam an abrahamic religion? i understand how christianity and obviously judaism fall into that category but why islam?

and this video interests me but i wouldnt know about the statements made in the video about sharia and taqiyya although a quick search of taqiyya from other sites like wiki etc and it pretty much confirms what this video says, what do others think and please dont just focus on this video im curious about the first question

YouTube - Three Things About Islam
 
The simple answer is because Islam teaches that we must believe in the Prophets (pbut) and books (Torah and Bible) which came before (in their true form). In Islam Jews and Christians are called People of the Book.

Muslims must believe in all the Prophets from Adam to Mohamed, the Final Prophet, (pbut). This includes Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham - pbuh) and the Quran contains a chapter called Ibrahim, as he is the father of both the Jews and Arabs through his sons.

We believe that Isa (Jesus - pbuh) was sent by G-d to correct the wrongdoings of the Jews (in not following their given faith correctly, hence stories like Jesus fighting with money lenders in the temple and the golden calf). Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was then sent to correct the wrongdoings of Christians in creating the trinity and placing partners with G-d but the religions, when they were each revealed, were one and the same.

All three religions come from the same source, G-d, and all three state there is only One G-d.

................................

How strange it is the second time I have met up with this piece of video trash today so I shall just copy and post my answer again.

The start of the video sets a scene of how all religions, other than Islam, are peaceful and the Torah/Bible is full of peace and quaint stories not to be taken literally ... it's effective propaganda but total rubbish of course:

Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly . . . "


The video deals with 3 topics, all of which are factually incorrect:

1. Abrogated passages - There are 2 issues with this. First, yes later passages of the Quran abrogate newer passages but even the best Islamic scholars can only use their judgement as to when each passage was written, this absolute knowledge (of when each passage was written) was lost centuries ago. Secondly the video suggests that violent passages abrogate peaceful ones ... which violent passages are they speaking of? Usually it is the "sword verses" and every Muslim knows those verses are speaking about a particular set of events which happened in the time of the Prophet, about a particular enemy tribe and are simply used by jihadists to cause violence and by anti Muslims to say how bad Islam is.

2. Worldwide Sharia law - this threat is always used to scare people. All Muslims know that there will be worldwide Sharia law but this will happen when the Messiah returns to earth and wages war against sin. People cannot perform the work of the Messiah and as he hasn't returned yet it means there can't be worldwide Sharia law.

Also the Sharia court in the UK is allowed to rule on matters such as inheritance and divorce. There have been Jewish courts in the UK for decades but I haven't seen you posting video's about that.

3. Taqiyya (lying) is forbidden in Islam, other than in 3 circumstances.

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).

There is nothing that allows a Muslim to lie about what the Quran says to make people convert or show Islam in a good light to non Muslims.

If you scroll down on the info bit under the video it gives all the sources it used.

Info about abrogation in the Quran comes from the Methodist Publishing House and a website called Muhammadanism.org ... which they themselves state is very anti-Islam.

Info on Sharia comes from Wafa Sultan, who is a proven liar and she isn't even a Sunni Muslim (the vast majority of Muslims) but Shia, who follow some very strange practices and religious laws not accepted in Sunni Islam. She went to America and became very rich and famous for slagging off Islam after telling a lot of lies about her life back home - she went from welfare in America to a mansion based on these stories so not a very reliable source.

The original video was posted on a blog which claims "Islam is of the devil" ... so no axe to grind there then lol.

A lot of their info originates on a website called Crusader's Armory ... which just about says all we need to know about this video.
 
hello "muslim woman" please dont be offended, i found this video and thought it was interesting, i havent studied islam, and ive just begun to study judaism. im sure there is plenty of hate between all 3 religions, history shows this of course

and thank you for the information. although i must say, when you attempt to rebuke something but say "oh except for such and such" its not very convincing at all, such as;

First, yes later passages of the Quran abrogate newer passages but (etc etc)

Taqiyya (lying) is forbidden in Islam, other than in 3 circumstances(etc etc)

from what you stated whether you like it or not, its apparent taqiyya is what the video suggested and abragtion is also what the video suggested. now however those concepts are warped is up to whoevers reading them but the fact is they are a part of Islam, maybe judaism to i dont know yet i havent gotten that far

and really its not a slant on the religion, and personally i dont care who islam or anyone believes, my curiosity is blind to all the other bs that follows like your disgust of the video, even though its somewhat biased if you could step outside of yourself you would see that your statements are biased aswell.

again, sorry to say it that way but its true by your own words anyhow. what im getting at is merely i dont take sides or blame islam or like im cheering for someone to smash them or whatever i dont care but it is interesting and makes me curious about some other things.
 
im sure there is plenty of hate between all 3 religions

so you joined an inter faith forum ... interesting.

If you don't want to insult someone or their faith don't post obvious hate mongering and then insist what it says is right.

The video says "Muslims are allowed to deceive non-Muslims if it helps Islam".

I then provided you with the Islamic proof for when taqiyya is permitted, showing that the video is lying and you come back with ..... "taqiyya is what the video suggested".

So either you have reading difficulties or you are trying to antagonise.

and you're studying Judaism ... please promise me that when you challenge Bananabrain with the same sort of attitude you will send me a link to the thread because I just know I'm going to want to read his response ;)
 
"muslim woman" im sorry i insulted you. from what i understand of your description of taqiyya, its acceptable during war. im curious when you could point out the last time period in which muslims werent at war.

as to what you say about me id assume you have the "reading difficulties" considering what i stated about the video. honestly my curiosity is genuine and it would be nice to have a mature conversation with someone about the concepts or "laws" stated in the video but i can see this would be an effort in futility and not really worth my time.
 
im curious, why is islam an abrahamic religion? i understand how christianity and obviously judaism fall into that category but why islam?

God made a covenant with Abraham. Then from his Israelite lineage, he made a covenant with Moses. And then from his Ishmaelite lineage, he made a covenant with Mohammad. Thats how Judaism & Islam are Abrahamic. And Christianity is the odd man out.

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I cant discuss much about Sharia before you getting enough knowledge about it. I dont think there is some decent stuff about the topic on youtube. There is this book available both legally and illegally on the net try it.

http://www.google.com.pk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=P83&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&&sa=X&ei=0B-sTMfMA5OjcZm1maEE&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=Sharia+Law%3A+An+Introduction&spell=1

There is enough in this book that if you read it, you wont need any discussions with anybody on the topic. The author is "actually" an expert of Shariah (how strange).

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Lying is allowed when somebody puts a gun on your head and forces you to convert. Also to bring a couple back for the verge of divorce. And of course war. These things are gonna happen anyways, so why do you think Islam should have forbidden it? Is there any secular law that prevents lying in these cases?

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There is a time for peace & there is a time for war. Quran works with both. Peacefull verses dont get abrogated by sword verses. If they do (according to who?) then they in turn get abrogated by peaceful verses again . This whole concept is silly, & I havent heard any "proper scholar" saying peacefull verses get abrogated so muslims have to make war all the time. Seems like another one of western myths for war.

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BTW the video was really silly. There are better things on youtube too. Try anything by Hamza Yusuf for a start, not Wafa Sultan for god sake.
 
Lying is allowed when somebody puts a gun on your head and forces you to convert. Also to bring a couple back for the verge of divorce. And of course war.

No way bro !!

The Quran says very clearly: "avoid false words" (22:30)
There is no exception granted here. Therefore: lying is always a sin.

There are some ahadith which seem to support the idea that
lying is allowed in certain conditions but these are clearly
contradicting the Quran itself, and are automatically invalid.
 
vinny,

muslimwoman is right - any "educational video" on islam which brings up taqiyya in the introduction has a clear islamophobic agenda - but again, if you're trying to do this without guidance how are you going to know? the same goes for all the pro-islam "educational videos" which are actually fronts for all sorts of islamist groups like the muslim brotherhood or things funded by the saudis or the iranians or the ahmadis. as you learn more, you'll learn that there are a number of issues that are indicative of the underlying attitude you're dealing with. there are far more sensible places to start learning about islam than youtube and one of them is simply to ask some real live muslims, like we have here.

*that* is what interfaith dialogue is about.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
No way bro !!

The Quran says very clearly: "avoid false words" (22:30)
There is no exception granted here. Therefore: lying is always a sin.

There are some ahadith which seem to support the idea that
lying is allowed in certain conditions but these are clearly
contradicting the Quran itself, and are automatically invalid.


As for anyone who denies God after having once attained to faith - and this, to be sure, does not apply to one who does it under duress, the while his heart remains true to his faith, but [only, to] him who willingly opens up his heart to a denial of the truth -: upon all such [falls] God's condemnation, and tremendous suffering awaits them (16:106)

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War is all deceit. We always do it. Isnt stealth tech another form of lying?
 
1. Abrogated passages - There are 2 issues with this. First, yes later passages of the Quran abrogate newer passages but even the best Islamic scholars can only use their judgement as to when each passage was written, this absolute knowledge (of when each passage was written) was lost centuries ago. Secondly the video suggests that violent passages abrogate peaceful ones ... which violent passages are they speaking of? Usually it is the "sword verses" and every Muslim knows those verses are speaking about a particular set of events which happened in the time of the Prophet, about a particular enemy tribe and are simply used by jihadists to cause violence and by anti Muslims to say how bad Islam is.
There are quite a few schools of thought about abrogation issue. According to Shah waliullah There are only 5 verses that actually get abrogated. These are

Mansukh 2: 180 nasikh 4: 11, 12
Mansukh 2:240 nasikh 2: 234.
Mansukh 8:65 nasikh 8: 62.
Mansukh 30:50 nasikh 33: 52.
Mansukh 58: 12 nasikh 58: 13.

There are other scholars who dont belive even in the abrogation of these verses. They believe in evolutionary revelation. A guy/nation is ready to abide by strict laws only when he has graduated from easier ones. So the easier laws still stand for people who have just entered Islam.
2. Worldwide Sharia law - this threat is always used to scare people. All Muslims know that there will be worldwide Sharia law but this will happen when the Messiah returns to earth and wages war against sin. People cannot perform the work of the Messiah and as he hasn't returned yet it means there can't be worldwide Sharia law.
Think about it, we have got world wide secular laws imposed upon us. We have got world wide lawlessness imposed upon us. Nobody whines when muslims are forced to accept secular laws. BUt they always scare people with world wide Sharia law stuff.
 
As for anyone who denies God after having once attained to faith - and this, to be sure, does not apply to one who does it under duress, the while his heart remains true to his faith, but [only, to] him who willingly opens up his heart to a denial of the truth -: upon all such [falls] God's condemnation, and tremendous suffering awaits them (16:106)

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Fine, that's one exception (the only one it seems).

Where are the others?


War is all deceit. We always do it. Isnt stealth tech another form of lying?
The Quran says avoid "false words" not stealth in strategy.
Muslims are specifically told not to break treaties, even with enemies.

Deception in war does not require lying.
In fact violating treaties is strategically negative, as it destroys political credibility.
 
It's not a case of lying, or deceiving- very potent words indeed. Instead, it's more a case of... "yeah, we're all trying to be good, and decent, but sometimes, it's better for you, and others, to refrain from the truth". Buddhism has similiar ideas. Yes, it's great to be good, and decent, but sometimes, it means death, and pain. No righteous God would mind a small lie in such instances. That's how I read it.
 
Israelite people have turned against God, thats why God gave his only Son, Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the only way to God.

The events in the old testament wasnt relevant any longer without the new testament God has prophesied the coming of messiah, and has spoken the salvation is only thru Jesus Christ, God's begotten Son who died at the cross for the salvation of humanity, me, you, and anyone who believes on Jesus Christ. Yes, the old testament reflects the events, the people, the laws, and so on but the new testament is the continuation, just like any books, man needs to read the first part, and then the second part to get the whole picture. I believe that all Jews, Islam, and Christian will be saved at the second coming of Jesus Christ, as long their beliefs are in accordance to Jesus Christ instructions in jesus name, amen.
 
There are quite a few schools of thought about abrogation issue. According to Shah waliullah There are only 5 verses that actually get abrogated. These are

Yet there is also a school of thought that suggests over 200 Quranic verses are abrogated by later (more violent) verses ... imo this is where radicalism comes from, when we start picking and choosing which passages are abrogated without absolute knowledge (which we all know doesn't exist since the Prophet (pbuh) died).
 
Islam explains that we necessity trust in the Prophets (pbuh) and books (Torah and Bible) which came before (in their true form). In Islam Jews and Christians are called Persons of the Book. Muslims must trust in all the Prophets from Adam to Mohamed, the Final Prophet pbuh. This includes Prophet Ibrahim Abraham pbuh and the Quran covers a section called Ibrahim, as he is the father of both the Jews and Arabs through his sons.
 
Yet there is also a school of thought that suggests over 200 Quranic verses are abrogated by later (more violent) verses ... imo this is where radicalism comes from, when we start picking and choosing which passages are abrogated without absolute knowledge (which we all know doesn't exist since the Prophet (pbuh) died).
Missed this, and interesting that.

I thought the Quran was corroborated as accurate by x copies being reviewed and compared... I recall a whole littany on why it in Arabic and why it is known to be canon, without additions, subtractions or changes as Iong as it is the original Arabic ??
 
I thought the Quran

Wil the Quran is unchanged. What is believed to be the oldest Quran in existence was found in an archive in UK recently, it dates back to either the time of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) or very shortly after and my hubby could read it just as he reads the Quran today, without any changes.

The issue is people picking and choosing according to their agenda. For example many Christians now virtually say Christianity has nothing to do with the Old Testament and is only based on the New Testament, ie ignoring what could be seen as violent verses in favour of peaceful ones. Same happens in Islam, some people (a small group of extremists by the way) have decided that all peaceful verses are abrogated by violent ones, saying the violent ones came later so must abrogate the earlier verses. It's a total corruption of the Quran but it fits their agenda
 
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