"The empty mind is the devils workshop"

If your being is centered in that energy, in that love and light, then evil is not possible, but things which look evil can be done out of your compassion. Muhammad and Krishna have led armies to war, it looks evil. Buddha has killed a man, Jesus has erupted in the Mosque, and Elohim is either ordering deaths or killing cities or the whole world, it cannot be called anything but evil if you just look at the periphery. In the very core it is out of compassion though, it is displaying a totality not a choosing. They respond to the moment, it is not premeditated, and sometimes love calls for such acts.

Never permit yourself to become stuck, static, go on growing in all the directions possible, allow your being to expand infinitely. If you go on pushing in one direction you just move in a line, there is no growth, you remain limited, imprisoned in delusion, you will never know peace because in the linear there is no end, you will eventually see it has accomplished nothing, you remain where you started essentially.
 
Moving on the plains, it seems vast, but still there is no peak, just more of the same.

Climbing to the peak, there is beauty, but who will come with you?

You have to go back down to the valley, you have to share that beauty, there is nothing else to do.

You can return to the peak whenever you like, without effort now because you know the way, but still you have to come back to share.

This is aliveness, both the peak and the valley together create an interesting landscape.
 
Also, who is spiritual?

If you say "I am spiritual" you are not spiritual at all, you are still a poor philosopher.

Can God be spiritual? It is absurd to even consider, spirituality will simply have no meaning. God is beyond all attributes, to allow God, you have to drop your own - and the attributes are only identifications, attachments of the mind, you are attributeless in truth.

Automatically though, if you have dropped all attributes consciously, how will mind persist? When mind is no more a veil, truth is revealed.
 
Vajradhara said:
i've heard that hell is other people.

metta,

~v
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Hell is a state of mind when you are against, it is hatred that has gripped your very being and it will be difficult to come out but it is possible, you only have to allow, be less judgmental, simply look at the absurdity of your reaction. All is interdependent, not separate, it is as though your left hand is wishing to change your right hand, it is against your right hand. How will it work?

In another way, other shows you are experiencing as a separation, it is another definition of hell. Heaven being the dropping of all fetters, including this notion.

Either way, it is depicted as the embodiment of fear, which was my point.
 
Originally Posted by Lunitik
Certain it is where fear arises: the unknown.

What is hell but the manifestation of fear?
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Listen to me lunitik junior listen to me good:

We fear ONLY the KNOWN.

After the fear is KNOWN we pass down that knowledge to the following generation. That is how declarations of Peace are evolved into being.

That's how test pilots got famous. Then it becomes text book knowledge.

Fear manifests from the knowledge of the possibility of total annihilation. Similarly, the deterent-possibility of continuing ones' existance in prisons amongst retrobates. Similarly, the deterent-possibility of outright suffering at the hands of mad maniacs hell-bent on sensational evil doings and thus, the surveying of human brethern faces exuding anguish and pain.

We live in a Cain & Abel duality of temporal time and space . . . where the Fear of the Known is always hidden away whilst life engages in fleeting pursuits ---and we are just a few amongst the vast historic masses repeating the same behavior.

We avoid the fact of life fears and allot of lives to seeking pleasure and dance ---where the fact is we work in factories to earn the right to purchase food, board, education & clothes.

Why enslave the masses . . . when you could make them pay rent and buy everything from your general store?

2500 calories each day for each person was long ago do-able.

Every one is has been for several decades sought to become there own Tony Soprano . . . especially the worldly minded.
 
bhaktajan said:
Listen to me lunitik junior listen to me good:

We fear ONLY the KNOWN.

After the fear is KNOWN we pass down that knowledge to the following generation. That is how declarations of Peace are evolved into being.

That's how test pilots got famous. Then it becomes text book knowledge.

Fear manifests from the knowledge of the possibility of total annihilation. Similarly, the deterent-possibility of continuing ones' existance in prisons amongst retrobates. Similarly, the deterent-possibility of outright suffering at the hands of mad maniacs hell-bent on sensational evil doings and thus, the surveying of human brethern faces exuding anguish and pain.

We live in a Cain & Abel duality of temporal time and space . . . where the Fear of the Known is always hidden away whilst life engages in fleeting pursuits ---and we are just a few amongst the vast historic masses repeating the same behavior.

We avoid the fact of life fears and allot of lives to seeking pleasure and dance ---where the fact is we work in factories to earn the right to purchase food, board, education & clothes.

Why enslave the masses . . . when you could make them pay rent and buy everything from your general store?

2500 calories each day for each person was long ago do-able.

Every one is has been for several decades sought to become there own Tony Soprano . . . especially the worldly minded.
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You are simply wrong.

People fear death because they do not know what will happen after they die.
People fear being alone because they do not know if they'll find someone new.
The list goes on and on.

You simply look at your own fears, what is their base?

You cannot say these fears are about the known, because you do not know what happens when you die, you do not know what will happen if you are alone. They are utterly unfounded, always it is the unknown element that mind will run from. Why will it run if it knows you will not come to any harm? Why will it be scared if it already knows the outcome? Knowing the outcome, there is a certain comfort in it.

Religion for most is exactly about this: finding answers to things they do not know so they can feel comfortable about it. Many do not care whether it is true, they simply want to be put at ease, when they can feel they know it there is no more trouble in it for them. Meditation is quite the opposite, here you dive into the unknown, you embrace aloneness and death and see what is in them. Now there is no inclination to fear at all, you experience death and live through it, you realize you are deathless - again, knowing, it is impossible to fear.
 
Lunitik said:
You cannot say these fears are about the known, because you do not know what happens when you die, you do not know what will happen if you are alone.
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I disagree . . . Fear is instilled, it is a learned emotion and an archetypal image. It is most present in Abrahamic faiths but not exclusive to them.

Are you telling me that a Jihad soldier is fearful of death? Hell no . . . bunch of Virgins, a place next to Allah, good fortune for his/her family!! Kamikaze's had the same world view. Many Cult members share similar views.

Furthermore, Fear has been instilled in us from the dawn of Man, it is symbolic of the Night, of Dark, of the Unknown. When the Sun set and it became pitch black, terror and death pervaded, when the Sun rose again, everything was cool once more.
 
bhaktajan --

This whole issue is, once more, a matter of perception. Franz Rosenzweig really hit the nail on the head (IMHO) when he critcized Western Philosophy in "Star of Redemption" as not providing knowledge of the All. His basic idea was we fear death because we know what it is, not because we do not understand it. We know it is the end of what we think is us. So at least one fairly serious thinker out there agrees with you.
 
luecy7 said:
Being good, is not being empty. :)
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Yes, because being good means you have chosen, it means it is not something which arises naturally, you have to consciously decide it. Ego is what has filled you in this choice, but you have made statements in which you seem to consider it something worthwhile. Similarly, many ego's have decided to be humble, it is still utterly egoistic, but in the negative direction.

Being empty, there is no choice at all, you are utterly choiceless and whatsoever arises is perfectly good. The nature of the emptiness is what you might call love, thus it is not possible to do anything which is inherently not good. You are not humble either though, you simply aren't arrogant but it is not something you choose. You permit whatsoever arises, but it always arises from that love, from that compassion. That is the real religiousness, if you have to go on choosing you are simply being trained.
 
Etu Malku said:
I disagree . . . Fear is instilled, it is a learned emotion and an archetypal image. It is most present in Abrahamic faiths but not exclusive to them.

Are you telling me that a Jihad soldier is fearful of death? Hell no . . . bunch of Virgins, a place next to Allah, good fortune for his/her family!! Kamikaze's had the same world view. Many Cult members share similar views.

Furthermore, Fear has been instilled in us from the dawn of Man, it is symbolic of the Night, of Dark, of the Unknown. When the Sun set and it became pitch black, terror and death pervaded, when the Sun rose again, everything was cool once more.
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You have said why the Jihad soldier doesn't have fear, it is because he believes he knows what will happen - thus there is no unknown. It also shows that fear is not inherent, thus cannot be about the known. It is not learned either, though, it is the natural course of survival instinct and intelligence. In the East, they have ways of explaining death which alleviate this natural conclusion and now again the outcome is known.
 
radarmark said:
bhaktajan --

This whole issue is, once more, a matter of perception. Franz Rosenzweig really hit the nail on the head (IMHO) when he critcized Western Philosophy in "Star of Redemption" as not providing knowledge of the All. His basic idea was we fear death because we know what it is, not because we do not understand it. We know it is the end of what we think is us. So at least one fairly serious thinker out there agrees with you.
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What makes him a serious thinker?

We may understand it is the end, but it is not known what that means at all.
 
Perhaps, by 'serious thinker' you mean lost in the labyrinth of mind... if that is so, I agree, because I see no real wisdom in the man. If anything, he is pulling reality further apart from my reading of him, this shows his words are not worth the postcards they were written on.

Wisdom comes from encountering the oneness of existence, for me, he seems to be running form it and death. It is in that very experience of oneness you realize the truth of eternal life, he has not realized this simple truth.
 
Ah yes a moment of clarity?

It is the path of "Zen in the Art of Lunitic Simple Mindedness".

Hmm?
 
Of course, B, no one (even someone who pretty much changed the face of Western Religious thought for the better) by definition can be right if L says so.
 
Lunitik said:
Being empty, there is no choice at all, you are utterly choiceless and whatsoever arises is perfectly good.
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Perfectly evil. The walking dead. Though you attribute nothing to yourself, you are watching and permitting your actions.

Why do you still address me? I said you wanted silence, golden silence. You are free to go and be empty. :)
 
bhaktajan said:
Ah yes a moment of clarity?

It is the path of "Zen in the Art of Lunitic Simple Mindedness".

Hmm?
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It is not to be simple minded, that is not the thing, it is to be a perpetual no-mind. Thus, there are no delusions, no veils over reality, there is only truth.
 
radarmark said:
Of course, B, no one (even someone who pretty much changed the face of Western Religious thought for the better) by definition can be right if L says so.
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If you say a nonsense, it will be corrected by me, you take this as ego but it is it is because you believe if someone isn't utterly humble there must be arrogance. Mind plays these games between the extremes, mind only stops when the pendulum is halted between the two. Now there is no humility or arrogance, it is only truth.
 
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