ISIS, Al Quedaesque groups to destroy Islam

wil

wil

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I really believe it is time for Muslims worldwide to wake up.

The plethora of attacks by radicalized terrorists claiming to be Muslims are fomenting prejudice against all Muslims.

In reality more Muslims are currently dying at the hands of these terrorists than non Muslims. But as these attacks continue worldwide the sentiment against Islam in general and not terrorists specific will continue to rise.

If there is nothing done to stop them within the Muslim community to save their faith....I am seriously afraid actions will begin to occur country after country against Muslims....
 
Oh, Muslims in the countries they are in have no choice...it is either roll over and relinquish control to them, evacuate, or fight for your home and country...

Boko Haram, Al Shabob, Al Queda, ISIS/L, the Taliban, the list is growing and their victims are many, they are inciting violence beyond the regions they are in....and it is moderate and liberal Muslims that will lose.

I see the whole apostate, kafir, takfir, is a gang, peer pressure mentality....if this keeps going and change doesn't happen from within...I am afraid it will happen from without.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I still don't know what you want them to do?
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Confront the source of the problem：　Wahhabism. Reza Aslan said Saudia Arabia spent billions in the last couple of decades promoting this ideology. Perhaps the Muslim community and the world can pressure Saudia Arabia to do something? See more from another source in the link below:
 
Yes Ahanu, it appears Wahhabi and Salifi madrases are an issue.... Osama and much of his crew came from Saudi... The house of Saud, which keeps women in burkas and not driving...the 'friend' of America in the middle east has gotten a free pass for decades.

Your article speaks directly to the point I am making (as usual more eloquently and with more backup)
Dr. Yousaf Butt is a senior advisor to the British American Security Information Council and director at the Cultural Intelligence Institute. The views expressed here are his own.
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How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism | Yousaf Butt



As to what to do, how to do it? I've honestly got no clue. But as I said, they are killing more Muslims, polluting the minds of more Muslims than they are folks outside the community of Islam...it is in essence political/religous infighting trying to radicalize all of Islam (enforcing extreme religious laws, and negating any religious freedoms in countries where they can take hold).

When Bush I attacked Iraq to free Kuwait we used Saudi air bases and naval bases extensivley....but when it came to a Thanksgiving day meal and prayer he had to go out to an aircraft carrier, as Christian Prayer was not allowed on Saudi soil.
 
Personnally I believe a lot of the problem is Muslims fearing the sin of killing other Muslims, and fear of sin of excommunication. Very big sins. We had a mini discussion about it on my ISIS not Muslim post. And while I agree with the sentiment of not excommunicating, due to the issues with too much power and that it is forbidden, but at some point it becomes imperative to recognize who is and is not following the religion. It's one thing to say someone is misguided, but they hold on to the fundamentals. It is quite another to continue to call someone a Muslim (one who submits to the will of Allah) who puts their faith and submitting themselves to a man's direction. Having the belief is Great! But, not everyone who claims they do truly have any belief.

To be fair, Saudi has been fighting ISIS the whole time. I believe Wahabbism, or any division for that matter, is a big problem. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but we as Muslims need to remind ourselves that that freedom is personal. If a woman wants to disobey, it is her business. There is also no reason to ban Christians or Jews from worshipping (maybe allow in private if you are worried about influence).
 
BigJoeNobody said:
Personnally I believe a lot of the problem is Muslims fearing the sin of killing other Muslims, and fear of sin of excommunication. Very big sins. We had a mini discussion about it on my ISIS not Muslim post. And while I agree with the sentiment of not excommunicating, due to the issues with too much power and that it is forbidden, but at some point it becomes imperative to recognize who is and is not following the religion. It's one thing to say someone is misguided, but they hold on to the fundamentals. It is quite another to continue to call someone a Muslim (one who submits to the will of Allah) who puts their faith and submitting themselves to a man's direction. Having the belief is Great! But, not everyone who claims they do truly have any belief.
Click to expand...
ISIS Muslims don't seem to have any issue killing muslims
To be fair, Saudi has been fighting ISIS the whole time. I believe Wahabbism, or any division for that matter, is a big problem. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but we as Muslims need to remind ourselves that that freedom is personal. If a woman wants to disobey, it is her business. There is also no reason to ban Christians or Jews from worshipping (maybe allow in private if you are worried about influence).
Click to expand...
Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Saudi's don't seem to have an issue talking bad of Shi'ia

'Thank God for the Saudis': ISIS, Iraq, and the Lessons of Blowback - The Atlantic
Let’s be clear: Al Qaeda, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, Boko Haram, the Shabab and others are all violent Sunni Salafi groupings. For five decades, Saudi Arabia has been the official sponsor of Sunni Salafism across the globe.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/o...arted-with-saudi-support-for-salafi-hate.html
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I still don't know what you want them to do?
Click to expand...
We are talking about a problem that is manifesting in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Somalia, Pakistan, France, Denmark....and more...virtually around the globe.

So this isn't a national problem that will be solved in one country or another. Nor is it a problem that only affects one religion or ideology...

It will get solved, it will come to a head and someone will decide to respond in a big way.

There are already folks who are ready and willing to retaliate from the vigilante side of justice....but they often act out in ways that attack innocents that have nothing to do with the problem at hand (sort of like our going into Iraq)... This will continue to escalate if the violence from these groups continues to escalate.

What do I want to see done? I want to see it get handled internally somehow, I want it to go away, because as I see it, if it doesn't happen...someone else will create a coalition of the willing and start indiscriminately solving this problem (albeit creating a bigger one in order to do it)
 
Wil, I really don't follow, to me it's basically saying "racism, it's bad, you people over there should sort it out" or "Africans are dying of famine, Africans should sort that out". You are on one hand stating something very obvious and suggest people should do the impossible.
 
But it isn't famine....it is a violent warring group that is acting like a virus, popping up, changing stripes in various countries... I'm just me, I'm just observing. I don't see where I am in any position to do anything, I don't know who is, but I do know as folks get fed up we'll see more vigilantes acting out of racism style notions and Arabs and Persians and Sikhs and Muslims will be the victims of violence against them...perpetrated by the likes of us.
 
Observing is fine, but you're asking other people to fix things like racism is a new thing. And the reason I included famine is because I consider it theoretically fixable in modern times, we're just too greedy.

The other people are joining in just fine so I know it's just me, but don't you keep telling other people to be the change they want to see? Cause here's your chance!
 
If I were to choose to join some organization to help with starving people....I could do that. I can drive, or unload rice, or work in a kitchen.. I could help with that.

I am clueless how to stop a fundamentalist extremist from terrorizing folks and trying to take over land and countries. While I see how this is akin to racism, they aren't of any race, there are Arabs and Persians and Blacks....Heck the largest population of Muslims are Asians, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India... Jemaah Islamiyah and Al Queda have been active in Indonesia, wanting to create a caliphate there where there have been dozens of car bombings, suicide bombings....In Bangladesh, there are groups which have spawned from the IIF (Osama bin Laden’s International Islamic Front), the Taliban....

Again, I don't see it as racism, I see it as a plague of tyranny and terrorism, bombings from various radical groups around the world. It isn't Islam, they are claiming...just as our KKK which were WASPS against blacks, Jews, Catholics...were claiming Christianity as their basis.

I don't freakin like it. I am a proponent of peace, nonviolence, and interfaith.... And while I repeat, I don't see these folks as being Islamic, as following the Quran or the Prophet... but I do see the potential of a third world war with a cancer that is spreading now...
 
Ok let's drop racism and starvation since you take what I say out of context. Let's fix violence instead. The US for instance has lot's of violence and since you are American you should fix this? You are also a man and there are a lot of men that abuse their wives or girlfriends, this is something that you can do something about?
 
In my history with Muslims.... I've enjoyed learning about their beliefs and seen them as productive charitable members of society.

I've only run into one angry Imam...who insisted that Islam is the only way to go, that we all need to become Muslim, or we were going to hell... I've not met any who I'd believe were terrorist leaning. Now on the Christian side I've met many a bible thumper trying to convert, many angry racist types, many preachers spewing vitriol.

I sure as hell don't want to see this continue to manifest and grow into a larger problem...but it does appear that is where we are headed...
 
Wil - I agree. The terrorists (whether called butterflies or Islamic radicals) could hurl us into WWIII. An awful thought, to be sure. The world faces many daunting problems but terrorist thugs and their minions are presently the most demanding. Even so, the U.S.A. cannot afford to be so arrogant as to think we have the moral authority or the fiscal where-with-all to go it alone. Seems to me that a successful outcome necessarily demands the West be in lock-step.
 
I'm hoping the west can stay out of it. Other than monitoring and squashing any terrorist organizations that pop up in our own countries... It will be WWIII if we get involved in other countries issues along these lines.

at the risk of again being interpreted as saying that Africa should take care of their own famine...I believe the locals need to say enough is enough....safe haven needs to quit being provided, the gangland control needs to be eliminated in each country by each country, or as a local coalition of preferably Muslims handling from within.

If 'we' are involved the 'holy war' concept carries weight and will increase more radicalization of moderates and youth. It is my belief still that we are talking about less than 1/10th of 1% of Muslims... somehow through education/shaming/something they should be able to be turned back to the teachings of the Prophet and not of distorted Hadiths and warped Imams.
 
A soft WW3 has started on the lines that divide russian and american areas of influence. It will expand slowly, to Serbia, hungary, czech, slovak, baltics any of these places.

The terrorists, they are a problem that began with western intervention in the first place, back in the days of cold war. And these interventions still go on. IMO it would be better to stop intervening at all, and let the natural equilibrium decide the future. Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, all these places were much better before US-NATO-USSR interventions.
 
Agreed Farhan....many of those areas their first issue was 'us'...taking over (I mean colonizing), raping the people, land and resources (I mean civilizing), the whole race of Europe to see who's butt they can stick their precious flag up.

Then we 'gave' them independence, drew lines in the sand breaking up tribes into countries on whims....playing chess with people's lives and traditions.

It is still about power and control... and we simply don't like it when the oppressed strike back... but this establishing of caliphates and fractions of people bombing and terrorizing to make their points heard....it is a huge issue.

If it doesn't get under control...history shows us that 'my people' have a reputation of 'solving' problems in ways that create more.
 
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