Is the cross christian?

It is noteworthy that the Bible also uses the word xy´lon to identify the device used. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines this as meaning: "Wood cut and ready for use, firewood, timber, etc. . . . piece of wood, log, beam, post . . . cudgel, club . . . stake on which criminals were impaled . . . of live wood, tree." It also says "in NT, of the cross," and cites Acts 5:30 and 10:39 as examples. (Oxford, 1968, pp. 1191, 1192) However, in those verses KJ, RS, JB, and Dy translate xy´lon as "tree." (Compare this rendering with Galatians 3:13; Deuteronomy 21:22, 23.)

 
mee said:
It is noteworthy that the Bible also uses the word xy´lon to identify the device used. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines this as meaning: "Wood cut and ready for use, firewood, timber, etc. . . . piece of wood, log, beam, post . . . cudgel, club . . . stake on which criminals were impaled . . . of live wood, tree." It also says "in NT, of the cross," and cites Acts 5:30 and 10:39 as examples. (Oxford, 1968, pp. 1191, 1192) However, in those verses KJ, RS, JB, and Dy translate xy´lon as "tree." (Compare this rendering with Galatians 3:13; Deuteronomy 21:22, 23.)


mee - you have given some of the most fascinating insights into the symbol of the cross .... I deeply appreciate what you have researched and shared .... the connection of the word xy'lon to a live tree I have never known, but you have just pulled together an understanding of a very ancient symbol for me .... since I have always connected the cross with the human body, and also the tree of life in all its manifestations with the human body .... it now makes sense .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine
 
The Greek for cross is staffros, for crucifix estaffromenos. Quite clearly this is the origin of the English word staff. A staff of course has no crosspiece. Greek for staff is rathdos. It does seem as though translation is the cause of the ambiguity seen here. I know its not exactly relevant but just thought I'd add it as an aside.

In spoken modern Greek Xylo is the everyday word for wood of any description.

TE
 
mee said:
yes the cross goes right back to a babylonian God
According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Jehovah and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29) So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God

Is the chi-rho symbol really a representation of the tau symbol??
 
mee said:
yes the cross goes right back to a babylonian God
According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Jehovah and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29) So by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God


Can the chi-rho symbol really be said to be a representation of the tau symbol??
 
Re: Is the cross christian? 1 - as a physical reality

When Christians refer to the cross, they refer to the instrument of torture used by the Romans, by which he was killed, after the Temple Authorities manoeuvred Pilate into doing their dirty work for them.

As a form of execution the cross travelled the world with the Romans. The Jews killed by stoning, the Greeks used the stake or a gibbet, but the Romans excelled in its use. It was the punishment for slaves found guilty of any serious crime, although also used on provincials convicted of brigandage (Cicero XIII Phil., xii; Verr., V, xxvii).

It was absolutely forbidden to inflict this degrading and infamous punishment on a Roman citizen (Cic., Verr. Act., I, 5; II, 3, 5; III, 2, 24, 26; IV, 10 sqq.; V, 28, 52, 61, 66), but this immunity was modified when the poorer citizens (humiliores) were declared subject to the punishment of the cross (Paul., "Sent.", V, xxii, 1; Sueton., "Galba", ix; Quintil., VIII, iv).

It was inflicted for a wide range of crimes. According to Roman custom, the penalty of crucifixion was always preceded by scourging (virgis cædere, Prud., "Enchirid.", xli, 1); after this preliminary punishment, the condemned person had to carry the cross, or at least the transverse beam of it, to the place of execution (Plut., "Tard. dei vind.", ix, "Artemid.", II, xli), exposed to the jibes and insults of the people (Joseph., "Antiq.", XIX, iii; Plaut., "Most.", I, 1, 52; Dion., VII, 69). On arrival at the place of execution the cross was uplifted (Cic., Verr., V, lxvi). The sufferer was bound to it with cords (Plin., "Hist. Nat.", XXVIII, iv; Auson., "Id.", VI, 60; Lucan, VI, 543, 547), he was then, as Plautus tells us, fastened with four nails to the wood of the cross ("Lact.", IV, 13; Senec., "Vita beat.", 19; Tert., "Adv. Jud.", x; Justus Lipsius " De Cruce", II, vii; xli-ii). Finally, a placard called the titulus bearing the name of the condemned man and his sentence, was placed at the top of the cross (Euseb., "Hist. Eccl", V, 1; Suet., Caligula", xxxviii and "Domit." x; Matthew 27:37; John 19:19).

Slaves were crucified outside of Rome in a place called Sessorium, beyond the Esquiline Gate. Eventually this locality became a forest of crosses (Loiseleur, Des peines), while the bodies of the victims were the pray of vultures and other rapacious birds (Horace, "Epod.", V, 99, and the scholia of Crusius; Plin., "Hist. Nat.", XXXVI, cvii).

The condemned often lingered on the cross for several days (Isid., V, 27; Senec., Epist. ci). To shorten his punishment therefore, and lessen his terrible sufferings, his legs were were sometimes broken (crurifragium, crura frangere; Cic., XIII Philipp., xii). This custom, exceptional among the Romans, was common with the Jews. In this way it was possible to take down the corpse on the very evening of the execution (Tert., "Adv. Jud.", x; Isid., V, xxvii; Lactant., IV, xvi).

Among the Romans, on the contrary, the corpse could not be taken down, unless such removal had been specially authorized in the sentence of death. The corpse might also be buried if the sentence permitted (Valer. Max., vi, 2; Senec., "Controv.", VIII, iv; Cic., "Tusc.", I, 43; Catull., cvi, 1; Horace, "Epod.", I, 16-48; Prudent., "Peristephanon", I, 65; Petron., lxi sqq.).

The punishment of the cross remained in force throughout the Roman Empire until the first half of the fourth century. Later Constantine abolished its use, in honour of the Passion of Jesus Christ (Eus., "Hist. Eccl.", I, viii; Schol. Juvenal., XIV, 78; Niceph., VII, 46; Cassiod., "Hist. Trip.", I, 9; Codex Theod., IX, 5, 18).

The cross as 'tree' is spoken of by Cicero (Pro, Rabir., iii sqq.) and by Livy. This primitive form of crucifixion on trees was long in use, as Justus Lipsius notes ("De cruce", I, ii, 5; Tert., "Apol.", VIII, xvi; and "Martyrol. Paphnut." 25 Sept.). Such a tree was known as a cross (crux). On an ancient vase is shown Prometheus bound to a beam which serves the purpose of a cross.

On an ancient cist at Præneste (Palestrina), Andromeda is represented bound by the feet to a military yoke - i.e. two parallel, perpendicular stakes, surmounted by a transverse bar. Certain it is, at any rate, that the cross originally consisted of a simple vertical pole, sharpened at its upper end. Mæcenas (Seneca, Epist. xvii, 1, 10) calls it acuta crux; it could also be called crux simplex. To this upright pole a transverse bar was afterwards added to which the sufferer was fastened with nails or cords, and thus remained until he died, whence the expression cruci figere or affigere (Tac., "Ann.", XV, xliv; Potron., "Satyr.", iii)

Thomas
 
Re: Is the cross christian? 1 - as a spiritual reality

The symbol of the cross is, like the circle, spiral, square, triangle and star, among the lexicon of symbols that are universal and as old as man.

At one level these symbols can and often do have a personal and specific significance for the culture in question; at another level as 'foundational' symbols they manifest the 'first order' metaphysical principles that are common to all spiritual traditions precisely because these traditions all deal with man as a human being.

The determination then is according to degree. Some, the 'Great Religions', address all men and are properly universal, others fall outside of this and according to their own intrinsic limitations address, not so much 'a part of man' (which nevertheless is the case), but 'man in part', and in the most inferior cases are obliged to deny or simply ignore those aspects of the human nature which they are powerless to address.

The Cross is a symbol of Realisation, and has its application in one or more modes of being belonging to a human nature, physical, mental, emotional, cosmological, spiritual, etc., according to the principles and end in view.

By any measure the cross, as a spiritual symbol, finds an expression in Christianity which stands pre-eminent among all and every means, manner and method of its exegesis - a fact recognised by Spiritual Masters of every tradition - the Christian interpretation of the Cross, clearly evidenced by exegetes throughout the ages, conveys the highest metaphysical principle in absolute purity, whilst equally, and simultaneously, expresses these principles in a most direct and immediate fashion for even the humblest can understand and identify.

The Cross in Christianity, moreover, as symbol and as a reality, not only sheds light on the principial mystery of life - the mystery of being - it offers a way and a means by which that mystery, at a level which transcends being itself, might be realised by all any any who align their mind and heart and being towards it.

Thomas
 
Did you also post your info on wikepedia?
it was absolutely forbidden to inflict this degrading and infamous punishment ON A Roman citizen (Cic., Verr. Act. and I, 5; II and 3, 5; III and 2, 24, 26; IV and 10 sqq.; V, 28, 52, 61, 66);
or did you get it from the above?
Thomas wrote: It was absolutely forbidden to inflict this degrading and infamous punishment on a Roman citizen (Cic., Verr. Act., I, 5; II, 3, 5; III, 2, 24, 26; IV, 10 sqq.; V, 28, 52, 61, 66),
It would be quite handy if we identified our sources to assist others in thier study....
 
I said:
Is the chi-rho symbol really a representation of the tau symbol??
was it something to do with sun worship?
By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ."—An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256

 
This linking of the cross with sun worship is not surprising, as that was what the Chaldeans of Mesopotamia did, and it was from there that mankind was dispersed to all parts of the earth after the great Flood. Their god Tammuz was associated with the sun, and, according to Alexander Hislop, "the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians" was "the initial of the name of Tammuz." Although Tammuz was given different names by other peoples his symbol, the tau cross, continued in general use. Since Constantine was a pagan Roman, among whom the cross was a religious symbol, it is significant that he had a vision of this symbol in the sky beneath the sun

 
I know the Mayans here in Central AMerica already worshipped the cross in pre-columbian times...here in ES we celebrate the Day of the Cross on May 3rd and it is customary to set up a cross in your yard, to which you bring fruits (as May 3rd coincides with the indigenous celebration of the first rain: our rainy season runs from May-Oct, so early rains bring a plentiful harvest)...the cross for this celebration is traditionally manufactured out of a tree which is (locally) called "Palo de Jiote" (no idea of the scientific name!), which has the particularity that the bark can be peeled off, revealing a smooth deep green surface...it is said that the cross made of palo de jiote was a representation to the Mayans of the Xipe-Totec, a god that is dressed in the skin of his dead enemies....

...here's my source, but it's in Spanish...

http://www.santaana.gob.sv/contenido.php?id=4&opcion=Cultura
 
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