Give us this day our daily bread.

C

cyberpi

Guest
The Lord's prayer is commonly recited, and while I use to recite it blindly, I question its meaning. Does (did) everyone else?

I have often read 'daily bread' as a plea to keep us fed with dinner on everyone's table. I am curious how many people read it that way? I have wondered how we could be praying for daily bread if God were not living and listening, and actually physically helping us to put daily food on the table?! If there is more than enough food, then should I be begging God for more? If God provides food, then should my wife and I be doing the cooking for our kids? Why not pray for FISH too?!

In the communion or last supper, Jesus had bread... his flesh, and wine... his blood. Should I not be praying for wine too?!

As I read it, Father God is in heaven and that his Kingdom comes. It says his will is done in heaven, and that it will be done on Earth. I am curious how people read that: a) Is that a request that Father make Earth like Heaven? b) Has Father yet to do it for anyone? c) Is it a pledge that we will do his will? d) Is that being done? e) How will people know if and when it is his will being done?

If Jesus was led to be tempted by the Devil, hypocrites, Pharisees, etc... should a person not wish some temptation to follow the path of Jesus?

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KJV Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

KJV Luke 11:2-4 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
 
I do not believe that the Lord's Prayer was meant to be recited verbatim, rather it was a model prayer taught to Jesus' disciples on how to apporach God in prayer. The elements of the prayer are what is important. (The Lord's Prayer is actually John 17, when Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gesthemene).

The phrase, "Give us this day our daily bread" is a petition for provision that I believe transcends the plea for physical nourishment. This is evident in many passages concerning Jesus:

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." - Matthew 4:4

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." - John 4:34

"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." - John 6:34

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." - John 6:63

When we prayer after the model of the Lord's prayer, we are acknowledging a change in perspective apart from our own normal daily perception of life. We acknowledge a higher plane of existence than is more apparent than our earth-bound senses can detect.

"Our Father which art in heaven"

The acknowledgement of God and His rightful place exalted above all the earth.

"Hallowed be thy name"

Recognition of God's holiness.

"Thy kingdom come"

An appeal to bring down His righteousness domain.

"Thy will be done"

Recognition of God's Sovereignty.

"in earth, as it is in heaven"

God's sovereignty in regard to human affairs, that the kingdom may be realized in this imperfect world as it is realized in the perfect heaven from which it comes.

"Give us this day our daily bread"

A petition for the agent of change to be enacted in our lives and in so doing provide us the means to bring into the reality the kingdom of God here. God's sovereign reign begins in those who have submitted themselves to His will and are relying on the righteousness of God in them through the Holy Spirit's power accrding to His Word.

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors"

This seems like a conditional requirement. For us to receive mercy, we must have mercy. "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." - Matthew 5:7. Initially, we receive mercy from God, for God is merciful in His Love. The light of God's love shines in our hearts in the power of the Holy Spirit (our daily bread), which in turn enables us to forgive others. But if we do not forgive others, we'll end up like the unforgiving servant in the parable in Matthew 18:23-35.

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

As we submit to God's ways and rely on that daily bread to sustain us, we are led by the Spirit away from evil. The sin that easily besets has less power to tempt us, for we are free in Christ He has made a way of escape, and we must repond to that provision.


 
I have to say I can't entirely go along with this interpretation. You can try too hard to elicit a meaning which is right in front of you.

"Which art in heaven" - often abbreviated to "Our heavenly father" as distinct from our own natural father

"Hallowed be thy name" - this "be" is in the jussive subjunctive mood; it means "May thy name be holy" it expresses a wish that this should be so; this qualifies what came before, so this is now "Our heavenly father, whose name is too holy to speak".

"Thy kingdom come" - that subjunctive again. We look forward to the redemption of the whole earth, as St Paul describes. "Thy will be done" just as in Isaiah, when God's will is done on earth, the earth will once again be abundant etc

"Give us this day our daily bread" - We only ask for our basic needs for the day; we are not to worry about tomorrow (cf Sermon on the Mount); we are not to worry about money or possessions. This compares nicely with the provision of manna in the desert; when they tried to hoard it it went mouldy

"And forgive us our trespasses as we etc" - An opportunity to set aside any resentments or grudges so that we may make it possible to receive the full forgiveness of the Lord

"Lead us not into temptation" - "Temptation" meaning "a test"; so "do not put us to the test", just as the psalmist says "Do not enter into judgement with thy servant o Lord for in thy sight shall no man living be justified"

"But deliver us from evil" - "deliver us" meaning "free us". So we have "don't put us on trial O Lord, just get us out of jail free".

Does that answer Cyberpi's questions? If not, what's the problem?

cliff
 
My understanding has been our daily bread is our spiritual sustenance...much as Jesus discussing the living water...this is bread which you don't hunger for more as once you 'get it', once you understand it, you know you are receiving a constant flow. I also think you touched on another topic...I don't believe he ever meant us to repeat this over and over yet set us an example of how to pray.
KJV Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye:
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Fenton translates the prayer as a group of affirmations. If Fenton is correct Jesus was yet again teaching us a way to seperate ourselves from whatever negative material (earthly) problems we perceive and focus on the knowledge that all is solved in the spiritual (heavenly) realm.
"'Our Father in the Heavens; Your Name must be being Hallowed;
"'Your Kingdom must be being restored.
"'Your Will must be being done both in Heaven and upon the Earth.
"'Give us to-day our to-morrow's bread;
"'And forgive us our faults, as we forgive those offending us, for You would not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from its evil.'"
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This translation of the Lord's Prayer is found in "The Complete Bible in Modern English," by Ferrar Fenton. His translation suggests the concept of endless supply as we are always receiving today what we need for tomorrow. He eliminates the concept that G-d would ever lead us into temptation. In this translation everything in the present 'must be being' Although to me as an affirmation that leaves it all a little short, I'd switch that to 'is'.

In a footnote to this translation Mr. Fenton says:
The above is the literal translation of the original Greek,
retaining the Greek moods and tenses by the clearest
English I could. The old versions, having been made from a
Latin translation, could not reproduce the actual sense of
the Saviour as given by the Evangelists, for Latin has no
Aorist of the imperative passive mood used by Matthew and
Luke.

The force of the imperative first Aorist seems to me to be
that of what is called a standing order, a thing to be done
absolutely, and continuously.

Ferrar Fenton says that the Aorist is a tense expressing
complete action in a single movement. So we see that
according to the preface of the Lord's Prayer as originally
given by Jesus, He wants us not to pray for something to be
done in the future. Instead, since God has already provided
the things we need before we ask Him, our prayers should be
in the nature of a command implying our recognition of the
fact that they are now appearing in our world. As Fenton
says, the prayer is of the nature of a standing order, "a
thing to be done absolutely, and continuously."
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You'll find a number of other translations of the prayer here
and here.
 
I can only echo what has already been said- that bread here is a metaphor for needs... that this bread is daily suggests to me that what the petitioner is asking for goes beyond a risen loaf, but is maybe the staff of life, that something which keeps us alive, keeps us upright, just like the bread that mops up the gravy, the faith can clean the "life-plate", but we need that bread, that spiritual food, daily, to help us make sense of the world, and we pray we get it...

I think it says in Matthew- do not (in prayer) utter vain repetitions (or pray for the sake of it)... and I also think it says in matthew that prayer is supposed to be a private thing, between u and God...

the Lords' Prayer... bizzare title, really... does it mean the prayer is to be offerred to Our Lord, or does it mean this prayer was something he invented?
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
"Give us this day our daily bread" - We only ask for our basic needs for the day; we are not to worry about tomorrow (cf Sermon on the Mount); we are not to worry about money or possessions. This compares nicely with the provision of manna in the desert; when they tried to hoard it it went mouldy
cliff
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I believe this as well.
 
Take whatever interpretation helps you best. For me, I think Jesus was not running an earnest evangelical bible study meeting. He was talking, as ever, about the normal business of everyday life: making the world a better place, putting aside grievances, putting the Kingdom before money worries, sparing us from judgement.

In the end, wise thoughts will not change the world, only the courageous actions of caring people.
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
Take whatever interpretation helps you best. For me, I think Jesus was not running an earnest evangelical bible study meeting. He was talking, as ever, about the normal business of everyday life: making the world a better place, putting aside grievances, putting the Kingdom before money worries, sparing us from judgement.

In the end, wise thoughts will not change the world, only the courageous actions of caring people.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Lord's prayer is a simple means to focus one's attention on what is vital in life, and not what we distract ourselves with, and consider "important", between man, God and a single day (for that is all we get every 24 hours).
 
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.
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Or, "be held sacred; be treated as holy............. but of cause this does not mean that the name of God should not be mentioned.
(Ezekiel 36:23) ‘And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which YOU profaned in the midst of them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among YOU before their eyes.
​
(Ezekiel 38:23) And I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’......................we should use that glorious name in our prayers and direct our prayers to JEHOVAH
prayers must meet certain requirements if they are to be acceptable to God. First, they must be directed exclusively to God—not to Jesus, to a "saint," or to an idol. (Exodus 20:4, 5) Prayers must also be offered in the name of God’s Son, Jesus Christ. (John 14:6) Does this mean that our prayers are heard by Jesus first and that he relays the message to God? No. Rather, by praying to Jehovah in the name of Jesus, we identify ourselves as Christ’s disciples and we acknowledge that it is only because of his ransom that we are able to approach God.—Hebrews 4:14-16.
 
It is the word 'DAILY' that really sticks out to me. As will provided, translated also as "Give us today our tommorow's bread". Regardless of how a person sees 'bread'... the suggestion is that God can potentially be seen doing something on a DAILY basis. The prayer asks for something rather immediate. It is not like a week away, a month away, a year away, or an apocalypse away. It is like: Tomorrow please... or something that is really on a daily basis but hidden. When I say the prayer I have tended to say 'PLEASE give us our daily bread'. It just feels demanding otherwise. But if someone is looking for 'evidence' of God, this prayer kind of suggests to maybe look closer. Daily!

My read of the Gospel today reads the definition of 'bread' close to Dondi; however, in my younger years and the majority of my life I heard it as Virtual_Cliff does.
 
cyberpi said:
It is the word 'DAILY' that really sticks out to me. As will provided, translated also as "Give us today our tommorow's bread". Regardless of how a person sees 'bread'... the suggestion is that God can potentially be seen doing something on a DAILY basis. The prayer asks for something rather immediate. It is not like a week away, a month away, a year away, or an apocalypse away. It is like: Tomorrow please... or something that is really on a daily basis but hidden. When I say the prayer I have tended to say 'PLEASE give us our daily bread'. It just feels demanding otherwise. But if someone is looking for 'evidence' of God, this prayer kind of suggests to maybe look closer. Daily!

My read of the Gospel today reads the definition of 'bread' close to Dondi; however, in my younger years and the majority of my life I heard it as Virtual_Cliff does.
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Well, as an aside, perhaps you'd appreciate this variation. It is old Scandinavian, and called the Table Prayer:

I Jesu Navn Gaar vi til Bord;
at Spise, Drikke Paa Dit Ord
Gud Til Aere, Os Til Gavn,
Saa Faar vi Mad, I Jesu Navn:

TR: In Jesus' name this place we meet;
and on your word we drink and eat
Honor to God, our hopes are plain,
Please bless our lives, In Jesus' name:

Not so demanding, I should think. :)
 
Quahom1 said:
Well, as an aside, perhaps you'd appreciate this variation. It is old Scandinavian, and called the Table Prayer:

I Jesu Navn Gaar vi til Bord;
at Spise, Drikke Paa Dit Ord
Gud Til Aere, Os Til Gavn,
Saa Faar vi Mad, I Jesu Navn:

TR: In Jesus' name this place we meet;
and on your word we drink and eat
Honor to God, our hopes are plain,
Please bless our lives, In Jesus' name:

Not so demanding, I should think. :)
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That one incorporates the drink... I like it.
 
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