What makes you think you are right about belief?

Surely Thomas, who can't understand why I think the way I do, or believe the way I do, or think anyone would be as silly as to believe the way I do....would say that about me...

If that is so, he would be chastising me for being he, and he is above that.

but that being said, obtuse are us.
 
Gordian Knot said:
I do not understand your comments.
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thats fine there is no guarantee that they make sense

If all belief systems are wrong - what is right? I.E. what do you put in place rather than use a belief system?
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you put nothing in place, you cant make it true by putting it in place somewhere in your mind.

The act of having to maintain a belief system makes it false? Again I do not understand what you mean by that.

Would you explain further?
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if its real it maintains itself and needs no maintenance from me to make it more true,

hope that helps.
 
wil said:
My feeling.... my thought.... All the prophets, All the godmen, from Aristotle, Buddha, Baha'ullah, Jesus, Mohamed, Moses, Zarathustra, Lao Tzu, etc...were given keys to the kingdom, touched the hem, had a glimpse of the unknown, partially grokked the unknowable...

BUT

they lacked the ability to understand or convey accurately, completely and succinctly the enormity or simplicity of it all to their audience.....they did the best they could....but it is all lacking....and all requires us to take the next step. They all accessed the same thing, they are all attempting to provide that to us....but it was warped by their human abilities to discuss the spiritual...and by our abilities to undeerstand, as well as all the influence, agenda, and control of the intermediaries...
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perhaps its not that they lacked, its just that "THE TRUTH" is beyond words and conceptual thoughts, it just is.

and the attempt to convey it via words and conceptual thoughts is what leads to all the crazy religions and their stories.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordian Knot
I do not understand your comments.
Response:
thats fine there is no guarantee that they make sense

Gee. Thanks a bunch!

Quote:
If all belief systems are wrong - what is right? I.E. what do you put in place rather than use a belief system?
Response:
you put nothing in place, you cant make it true by putting it in place somewhere in your mind.

Maybe, maybe not, referencing religious beliefs. It is certainly possible to change personal behaviors, attitudes and beliefs by putting them in one's mind and taking the appropriate steps to make the change.

Quote:
The act of having to maintain a belief system makes it false? Again I do not understand what you mean by that.Would you explain further?
Response: if its real it maintains itself and needs no maintenance from me to make it more true,

How do you decide if something is 'real'? It may not take any maintenance once one has the belief, but the first step has to be the decision if the belief is real or not. We are not programmed with truths. We have to learn them and choose which ones we will accept versus those we will reject.
 
wil said:
Surely Thomas, who can't understand why I think the way I do, or believe the way I do, or think anyone would be as silly as to believe the way I do....would say that about me...
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Step away from the trigger ... :D

I din't mean carte blanche. Your beliefs you've made quite clear, and I see that. The reasons you've also made clear – and I see that.
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
perhaps its not that they lacked, its just that "THE TRUTH" is beyond words and conceptual thoughts, it just is.

and the attempt to convey it via words and conceptual thoughts is what leads to all the crazy religions and their stories.
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Yes...(said that before, wrote more....don't know what happened)


Thomas said:
Step away from the trigger ... :D

I din't mean carte blanche. Your beliefs you've made quite clear, and I see that. The reasons you've also made clear – and I see that.
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lol my brother... Got two youths I've worked with for the past ten years, one 21, the other 19, both headed to seminary and the RC priesthood...

Even I lose a few....hee hee.
 
Gordian Knot said:
How do you decide if something is 'real'? It may not take any maintenance once one has the belief, but the first step has to be the decision if the belief is real or not. We are not programmed with truths. We have to learn them and choose which ones we will accept versus those we will reject.
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As an observer, I think you are talking about 'the veil' and and Tea is talking about what's behind it. No?
 
I'm really not sure. Beyond the veil or not though I am having a difficult time accepting that "THE TRUTH" is beyond words and conceptual thoughts. Of what use is a truth if it is beyond comprehension. And how would one identify this truth if one is not capable of using any process to understand it.
 
Simple...it is science.

Until we have the science it is conjecture, and only those that have seen through the microscope and watched the amoeba in our water can understand that what looks like clean water has all this life.

Germs to surgeons...until we understand it, it is unknown gobbledegook. So someone tells you about germs but you don't get it until you understand the science.

I believe there is no unnatural, no super natural, it is simply that we don't have the science, don't have the language, don't have the understanding yet of the enormity or simplicity of it all.

We've come a long way baby....and have a long way to go....with our current level of consciousness.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
As an observer, I think you are talking about 'the veil' and and Tea is talking about what's behind it. No?
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something like that i guess, I am talking about the space where all this stuff occurs, thoughts beliefs are just like waves that come and go.
 
What makes me sure that I am right about my Faith is that: First, it was the same of Jesus, (Mat. 5:17-19) Second, that according to Psalm 147:19,20 we are the only People God revealed His Word to and last but not the least, we are the only People who teach the Truth according to the Law and the Prophets. (Isa. 8:20)
 
I think it's quite the jump to assume everyone thinks their religion is right. It is true for many, but not for all. I only think my religion is right FOR ME, and some others. Other religions outside of mine are right for other people.
 
Senthil said:
I think it's quite the jump to assume everyone thinks their religion is right. It is true for many, but not for all. I only think my religion is right FOR ME, and some others. Other religions outside of mine are right for other people.
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You have forgotten that there is a way to test if a religion is true. The test is in Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law and the Prophets if they don't speak according to this word, it is because there is no truth in what they say." Judaism, the Faith of Jesus is the only religion that teaches according to the Law and the Prophets.
 
lol.... the book says god wrote it. the book says you are wrong. the book says the book is right.

Weren't you the one that claimed to use logic to prove atheism wrong?
 
Shibolet said:
You have forgotten that there is a way to test if a religion is true. The test is in Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law and the Prophets if they don't speak according to this word, it is because there is no truth in what they say." Judaism, the Faith of Jesus is the only religion that teaches according to the Law and the Prophets.
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:rolleyes: Since I am not a Christian, this is meaningless to me. But you are welcome to believe whatever you want, including that I will spend an eternity in hell for not agreeing with you.
 
wil said:
lol.... the book says god wrote it. the book says you are wrong. the book says the book is right.

Weren't you the one that claimed to use logic to prove atheism wrong?
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But not for the members of the literal interpretation club. There is some learning in the letter, no doubt, but the Truth is found only in the metaphorical realm of reality. Most of the Bible is written on the basis of poetry, prophecies and dreams. One is required to have some expertise in metaphorical language to understand the truth of poetry, prophecies and dreams.
 
Senthil said:
:rolleyes: Since I am not a Christian, this is meaningless to me. But you are welcome to believe whatever you want, including that I will spend an eternity in hell for not agreeing with you.
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You can put your mind to rest because, I guarantee to you that you won't spend even a minute of your life in hell for not agreeing with me for two reasons: First because there is no hell, I mean the Christian concept of hell fire. The only hell we are all heading to is the grave. And for the second reason, no one either man or woman enjoys the attribute of eternity. That was an attribute that was not granted to man. The only thing eternal about man is death.
 
Shibolet said:
You can put your mind to rest because, I guarantee to you that you won't spend even a minute of your life in hell for not agreeing with me for two reasons: First because there is no hell, I mean the Christian concept of hell fire. The only hell we are all heading to is the grave. And for the second reason, no one either man or woman enjoys the attribute of eternity. That was an attribute that was not granted to man. The only thing eternal about man is death.
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Obviously, I wasn't worried. :)
 
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