B
Brother Rando
Guest
Many religions teach that the soul is immortal and that it never dies. What is your take? Can the soul really die?
The soul doesn't die per-se, but evidently it can be destroyed; recalled so to speak by our creator. Matthew 10:28
B
Brother Rando
Guest
"the soul that sins, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4 KJV)
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
The First thing to recognise about the subject matter, "Does the soul die" is that there are few places to seek the definition.
I heard it say, "Many religions teach that the soul is immortal and that it never dies." ---But where does it say that?????????????????
But where does it say that?????????????????
There are un-doubtedly "inferences" written into the three main scriptures of the world, the Koran, the Judeo-Christain Bible, and the Vedic Literatures.
I can attest that I have read in scriptures, where it is exhaustively explained in-depth, what the definition of the "soul" is. ... but I don't know where in the Bible nor in the Koran where the Soul is discussed nor defined, I don't know where and why not the nature of the Soul is not discussed.
You'd think that the Pro-Abortion folks would be conversant in what is Soul. There is plenty of nuanced wordage and in-direct inferences and poetic waxing but where is the Definition of the Soul?
Here my contribution to this topic:
"We are not the body, we are spirit-souls ---in the material world"
When the Jesus Died and Rose again ---he illustrated the above maxim.
That "learning moment" illustrated in Jesu Cristo's pastime shows the soul lives on after this life time ---that indicates "Transmigration-of-the-soul" ---this is an elementary lesson that the Brute status of society of Christ's era had no merit to have known nor learnt ---if not for the causeless Mercy of Christ's pastime in the Square of Public Opinion of Rome's world society.
The Lord said, Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. (4.7)
The rule of thumb has been written:
God advents and preaches, as per "Time and Place" ---as per the conditions of the persons living in that "Time and Place".
Alas, we spirits in the material world [of temporal passing Time] are accorded facility to access the goal of our free-will. That means we are tested repeatedly until we cultivate the proper etiquette required to be "Like our father in Heaven" ---our free-will to be a lover of God is up to our 'free-will'. At least we are present to hear the lessons when those lessons were taught. Now we are on our own recognisance.
Only God Re-Incarnates. All other souls ---"Part-and-Parcel of God's status as Supreme-Soul" --- leave their bodies and take new births that allow for reformation ---through the merciful agency of the Souls taking a new birth (Transmigration of the soul into a fresh birth) ---hard learned lessons can be both Enjoyed and/or suffered through . . . all for the purpose of reformation of seeing all as the property of Godhead.
Contrarily, there are many humans along with the lower life-forms of living entities that spend their time is the definitive pastimes of a] eating b] sleeping c] mating d] defending ---as the all in all of life ---to the point of self-hating frustrating pursuit of eternalilty by dint of their own prowess; when alas, we "Spirits in the material-World" are minute beings that have little control over the elements that afflict our daily weather reports.
But, the cultivation of "Gratefulness" during the short span of waking hours that comprise of daily lives allows for appreciating what is absolute vs what is temporal.
It is written that the Material world is a merciful concession to fallen souls to live lives seperate from the eternal association of face-to-face inter-personal reciprocal exchanges & pastimes with the Coolest Person ---we are in search of the coolest person because we too are indivisiable/individual persons.
BTW, the "Original-Original" form of a Cow-heard boy on a cow-farm playing with his own entourage.
God is an Absolute Persona.
The Blessed Lord said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot. (4.5)
God as an Absolute Persona ---has his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage & pastimes ----all outside and transcendent to laws the govern time and space as witnessed here in the material world.
There are 8,400,000 species of life, spanning all forms of living creatures from amoebas in stool to demigods in ccelestialabodes.
Each forms of living creature has a life force present that animates them and also accords them the concomitant level of consciousness that had been previously cultivated and thus accrued to the soul a particular stratum of life (IOW, as per the fruits of work preformed by a soul with its facility & faculty in a bodily birth it has inherited its due rewards ~aka, Karma (actions) accrues Karma-phalam (fruits of actions).
Each birth through any of 8,400,000 species of creatures IS IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION from the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" ---such a revelation of the definition of Godhead as an Absolute personality transcendentale ---is available in the Vedas since time-immemorial.
The open-book revelation of just who & by what defintion is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" as an absolute "Persona" can only be spoken of and revealed by the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" himself. This is done in The Bhagavad-Gita.
Ego is commensurate with the Vessel containing the soul.
Self-identity is the original identity of the soul in its original position, namely, as an eternal associate of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
The soul is an individual entity existing within a sphere of millions & trillions of other like souls all preforming the same activites (eat, sleep, mate, defend) from amoebas in stool to demigods in celestial abodes ---each preforms actions to satisfiy their senses (sense gratification).
The mundane ego seeks to sublimate its existence by "seeking transcendence" ---this is IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION to mundane sense gratification and self-preservation.
The False ego (the sense of "I am" this one body amongst 8,400,000 species of creatures during this & many countless past short waking life times) seeks short lived mundane gratification as the all-in-all in life.
The Science of self-realisation delineated in the yoga scriptures such as the Bhagavad-gita reveals how the soul's orginal "transcendent Ego" is inseperable from the individual soul of each "Person".
The (false) Ego is temporary as per each body/birth.
The self-identity of the soul* is "eternal associate & servant" of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
*this is the purpose of yoga disciplines [mind you, all yoga disciplines & such disciples, traditionally, are self-administered by each and every yoga practitioner whilst on their-own recognisance].
Yoga = the path of "Self-realisation"
Enlightenment = knowledge of the nature of both transcendence (ie: the soul's relationship to the supreme Soul)
maya = illusion that repeated actions in repeated births in the material world are the sum-total of the ego's/soul's purpose for existing, and, that the ego/soul is the master of all they survey [rather than, in explicit CONTRA-DISTINCTION to, seeking out the means to return to the pastimes of inter-personal exchanges with "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)"]
1] Ego = a sense of self-identity [as per present Birth-- and thus, a false (temporal) perception]. Ie: Tall or Short; Fat or skinny; Rich or poor; Ugly or beautiful; dog or cat or king or despot or thug or policeman; good or bad; etc. All these are "False ego(s)"
BTW, notice the "duality" factor? This is due to being "spirit souls in the material world".
2] Yes, there is A] eternal ego and there is B] temporal false-ego?
The difference is that the eternal ego is part and parcel of the individual soul [ie: You, me, and everyone that ever existed or ever will in future all each individual individuals. Each soul is indivisable and pervades the entire body, it is indestructible, No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul,
for the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time, the soul has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. the soul is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval, the soul is not die when the body dies, the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable the soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind, the individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried, the soul is everlasting, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the unchanged.
versus.
The temporal false-ego = the ego garnered via the particular birth. Such a temporal false-ego exists for the span of the life time. The body withers but the conscious life-force [the soul --atma, in sanskrit] continues to another birth ---thus lossing all of its Identity to the dust of time; and then to re-start another life-time . . . as per the Karma-phalam (fruits of actions/works) from the last lifetime. Scripture says that all facilities are accorded to all species without prejudice ---you get a future birth mechanically as per the stratum of cultivated sensibilities that "were remembered at the time of death".
Personal relationships, work skills, wealth, social status are all lost ---and the future birth is determined by the culmination of past works/the final thoughts at the time of death/life-long cultivated desires.
At death, unless one is informed of absolute truths (or that which approximate such absolute truths) one is destined fro repeated "relative" existence of striving to enjoy sans (without) ultimate purpose.
All past associations are lost upon a material body's death ---freeing it up to pursue any available future birth without overt effort ---as per the qualification of the souls level of cultivated sophistication.
"False-ego identity vs eternal-ego identity" ---is like "False cultivated sophistication" vs "Eternal cultivated sophistication"
Not to worry, all facilities are afforded free of charge to the soul to take all kinds of births.
It is only by way of disciplines (yoga ~ 're-link') the the soul's absolute nature can re-link with its absolute purpose/existence.
The common underlying factor is "Action" and "For what purpose the soul IN A BODY performs actions" ---It is a material/mechanical world we are in that is animated by the presence of Consciousness. Consciousness is the essence of the soul. Consciousness is the 'life-force' referred to as "soul".
The ego is temporary.
The souls' identity is a blank slate that is an individual persona.
The souls may cultivate service to Godhead [or nirvana] or it may conversely be led by a ring through the nose (yoni/yoke) by the temporal bodys' sense-gratifitory falculties.
By following the path of Lust (aka, sense-gratification) one thus is succeptable to supra-mundane "karma-phalam" ---namely, ugra-karma (funky-karma).
I heard it say, "Many religions teach that the soul is immortal and that it never dies." ---But where does it say that?????????????????
But where does it say that?????????????????
There are un-doubtedly "inferences" written into the three main scriptures of the world, the Koran, the Judeo-Christain Bible, and the Vedic Literatures.
I can attest that I have read in scriptures, where it is exhaustively explained in-depth, what the definition of the "soul" is. ... but I don't know where in the Bible nor in the Koran where the Soul is discussed nor defined, I don't know where and why not the nature of the Soul is not discussed.
You'd think that the Pro-Abortion folks would be conversant in what is Soul. There is plenty of nuanced wordage and in-direct inferences and poetic waxing but where is the Definition of the Soul?
Here my contribution to this topic:
"We are not the body, we are spirit-souls ---in the material world"
When the Jesus Died and Rose again ---he illustrated the above maxim.
That "learning moment" illustrated in Jesu Cristo's pastime shows the soul lives on after this life time ---that indicates "Transmigration-of-the-soul" ---this is an elementary lesson that the Brute status of society of Christ's era had no merit to have known nor learnt ---if not for the causeless Mercy of Christ's pastime in the Square of Public Opinion of Rome's world society.
The Lord said, Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. (4.7)
The rule of thumb has been written:
God advents and preaches, as per "Time and Place" ---as per the conditions of the persons living in that "Time and Place".
Alas, we spirits in the material world [of temporal passing Time] are accorded facility to access the goal of our free-will. That means we are tested repeatedly until we cultivate the proper etiquette required to be "Like our father in Heaven" ---our free-will to be a lover of God is up to our 'free-will'. At least we are present to hear the lessons when those lessons were taught. Now we are on our own recognisance.
Only God Re-Incarnates. All other souls ---"Part-and-Parcel of God's status as Supreme-Soul" --- leave their bodies and take new births that allow for reformation ---through the merciful agency of the Souls taking a new birth (Transmigration of the soul into a fresh birth) ---hard learned lessons can be both Enjoyed and/or suffered through . . . all for the purpose of reformation of seeing all as the property of Godhead.
Contrarily, there are many humans along with the lower life-forms of living entities that spend their time is the definitive pastimes of a] eating b] sleeping c] mating d] defending ---as the all in all of life ---to the point of self-hating frustrating pursuit of eternalilty by dint of their own prowess; when alas, we "Spirits in the material-World" are minute beings that have little control over the elements that afflict our daily weather reports.
But, the cultivation of "Gratefulness" during the short span of waking hours that comprise of daily lives allows for appreciating what is absolute vs what is temporal.
It is written that the Material world is a merciful concession to fallen souls to live lives seperate from the eternal association of face-to-face inter-personal reciprocal exchanges & pastimes with the Coolest Person ---we are in search of the coolest person because we too are indivisiable/individual persons.
BTW, the "Original-Original" form of a Cow-heard boy on a cow-farm playing with his own entourage.
God is an Absolute Persona.
The Blessed Lord said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot. (4.5)
God as an Absolute Persona ---has his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage & pastimes ----all outside and transcendent to laws the govern time and space as witnessed here in the material world.
There are 8,400,000 species of life, spanning all forms of living creatures from amoebas in stool to demigods in ccelestialabodes.
Each forms of living creature has a life force present that animates them and also accords them the concomitant level of consciousness that had been previously cultivated and thus accrued to the soul a particular stratum of life (IOW, as per the fruits of work preformed by a soul with its facility & faculty in a bodily birth it has inherited its due rewards ~aka, Karma (actions) accrues Karma-phalam (fruits of actions).
Each birth through any of 8,400,000 species of creatures IS IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION from the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" ---such a revelation of the definition of Godhead as an Absolute personality transcendentale ---is available in the Vedas since time-immemorial.
The open-book revelation of just who & by what defintion is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" as an absolute "Persona" can only be spoken of and revealed by the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" himself. This is done in The Bhagavad-Gita.
Ego is commensurate with the Vessel containing the soul.
Self-identity is the original identity of the soul in its original position, namely, as an eternal associate of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
The soul is an individual entity existing within a sphere of millions & trillions of other like souls all preforming the same activites (eat, sleep, mate, defend) from amoebas in stool to demigods in celestial abodes ---each preforms actions to satisfiy their senses (sense gratification).
The mundane ego seeks to sublimate its existence by "seeking transcendence" ---this is IN CONTRA-DISTINCTION to mundane sense gratification and self-preservation.
The False ego (the sense of "I am" this one body amongst 8,400,000 species of creatures during this & many countless past short waking life times) seeks short lived mundane gratification as the all-in-all in life.
The Science of self-realisation delineated in the yoga scriptures such as the Bhagavad-gita reveals how the soul's orginal "transcendent Ego" is inseperable from the individual soul of each "Person".
The (false) Ego is temporary as per each body/birth.
The self-identity of the soul* is "eternal associate & servant" of the "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)" in pastimes ---all outside the material world of "repeated births and death" (samsara, sanskrit).
*this is the purpose of yoga disciplines [mind you, all yoga disciplines & such disciples, traditionally, are self-administered by each and every yoga practitioner whilst on their-own recognisance].
Yoga = the path of "Self-realisation"
Enlightenment = knowledge of the nature of both transcendence (ie: the soul's relationship to the supreme Soul)
maya = illusion that repeated actions in repeated births in the material world are the sum-total of the ego's/soul's purpose for existing, and, that the ego/soul is the master of all they survey [rather than, in explicit CONTRA-DISTINCTION to, seeking out the means to return to the pastimes of inter-personal exchanges with "Supreme Personality of Godhead (Dio, La Persona Suprema)"]
1] Ego = a sense of self-identity [as per present Birth-- and thus, a false (temporal) perception]. Ie: Tall or Short; Fat or skinny; Rich or poor; Ugly or beautiful; dog or cat or king or despot or thug or policeman; good or bad; etc. All these are "False ego(s)"
BTW, notice the "duality" factor? This is due to being "spirit souls in the material world".
2] Yes, there is A] eternal ego and there is B] temporal false-ego?
The difference is that the eternal ego is part and parcel of the individual soul [ie: You, me, and everyone that ever existed or ever will in future all each individual individuals. Each soul is indivisable and pervades the entire body, it is indestructible, No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul,
for the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time, the soul has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. the soul is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval, the soul is not die when the body dies, the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable the soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind, the individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried, the soul is everlasting, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the unchanged.
versus.
The temporal false-ego = the ego garnered via the particular birth. Such a temporal false-ego exists for the span of the life time. The body withers but the conscious life-force [the soul --atma, in sanskrit] continues to another birth ---thus lossing all of its Identity to the dust of time; and then to re-start another life-time . . . as per the Karma-phalam (fruits of actions/works) from the last lifetime. Scripture says that all facilities are accorded to all species without prejudice ---you get a future birth mechanically as per the stratum of cultivated sensibilities that "were remembered at the time of death".
Personal relationships, work skills, wealth, social status are all lost ---and the future birth is determined by the culmination of past works/the final thoughts at the time of death/life-long cultivated desires.
At death, unless one is informed of absolute truths (or that which approximate such absolute truths) one is destined fro repeated "relative" existence of striving to enjoy sans (without) ultimate purpose.
All past associations are lost upon a material body's death ---freeing it up to pursue any available future birth without overt effort ---as per the qualification of the souls level of cultivated sophistication.
"False-ego identity vs eternal-ego identity" ---is like "False cultivated sophistication" vs "Eternal cultivated sophistication"
Not to worry, all facilities are afforded free of charge to the soul to take all kinds of births.
It is only by way of disciplines (yoga ~ 're-link') the the soul's absolute nature can re-link with its absolute purpose/existence.
The common underlying factor is "Action" and "For what purpose the soul IN A BODY performs actions" ---It is a material/mechanical world we are in that is animated by the presence of Consciousness. Consciousness is the essence of the soul. Consciousness is the 'life-force' referred to as "soul".
The ego is temporary.
The souls' identity is a blank slate that is an individual persona.
The souls may cultivate service to Godhead [or nirvana] or it may conversely be led by a ring through the nose (yoni/yoke) by the temporal bodys' sense-gratifitory falculties.
By following the path of Lust (aka, sense-gratification) one thus is succeptable to supra-mundane "karma-phalam" ---namely, ugra-karma (funky-karma).
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
OTOH,
There exists the term, "Atma-hanah" one who 'destroyed the experience of the Self; or, 'killer of the soul'. A human that interrupts the providence of another can be called a killer of the soul.
Some notes:
Demons exist—millions of them. And they live among us, mostly unrecognized, wherever we go. Who are they? What are they like? How do they exhibit their powers, and how can we be safe from their influence? These are the questions we shall deal with in this article.
The answers will not be invented fictions, the products of fanciful philosophical speculations conjured up out of the mind. Nor shall we waste our time recounting tales of chain-clanking ghosts and spirits. The analysis you are about to read will be a scientific presentation based on the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as spoken thousands of years ago and recorded in the Sanskrit language in the books of India especially the Bhagavad-gita. You may find this analysis enlightening, or, indeed, depending on your sympathies, you may find it offensive. You may accept it or reject it. Our only request is that you open the gates of your mind and allow these ancient ideas to enter for your thoughtful consideration.
The Divine and the Demonic
There are always two kinds of living beings in the creation—the divine and the demonic. Just as every state has two kinds of citizens—those who abide by the laws and those who do not—the state of the universe is filled with two kinds of living beings: those who abide by its natural laws and those who try to defy them. The former are called divine; the latter, demonic.
In other words, a demon need not be a huge monster with ten heads and a thousand arms, nor a little red fiend with a pitchfork. Of course, there may very well be demons with grotesque features and supernatural powers, but the demons who live among us generally appear quite ordinary. Your mailman might be a demon. So might your grocer, your congressman, or anyone else you know. For that matter, so might you.
How, then, can we tell whether a person is divine or demonic? By observing his qualities.
“The killer of the soul, whoever he may be, must enter into the planets known as the worlds of the faithless, full of darkness and ignorance” (Isopanisad mantra 3).
This verse describes the demons as atma-hana, killers of the soul. How is that? According to the Bhagavad-gita, the soul is eternal and can never be killed. Even when the temporary body dies, the soul continues to exist (na hanyate hanyamane sarire). So how can anyone be a “killer of the soul”? The answer is also in the Bhagavad-gita: when the eternal soul identifies himself with the temporary body, he becomes subject to repeated birth and death. Therefore, when one does not cultivate spiritual understanding, when he does not try to free the eternal soul—himself—from the cycle of repeated birth and death, he becomes a killer of the soul. He is killing himself by refusing to accept spiritual instruction about the soul and how it can be liberated from material bondage.
Achieving liberation from birth and death is not difficult, but one must take guidance from a bona fide, self-realized spiritual master who has understood the Absolute Truth.
There exists the term, "Atma-hanah" one who 'destroyed the experience of the Self; or, 'killer of the soul'. A human that interrupts the providence of another can be called a killer of the soul.
Some notes:
Demons exist—millions of them. And they live among us, mostly unrecognized, wherever we go. Who are they? What are they like? How do they exhibit their powers, and how can we be safe from their influence? These are the questions we shall deal with in this article.
The answers will not be invented fictions, the products of fanciful philosophical speculations conjured up out of the mind. Nor shall we waste our time recounting tales of chain-clanking ghosts and spirits. The analysis you are about to read will be a scientific presentation based on the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as spoken thousands of years ago and recorded in the Sanskrit language in the books of India especially the Bhagavad-gita. You may find this analysis enlightening, or, indeed, depending on your sympathies, you may find it offensive. You may accept it or reject it. Our only request is that you open the gates of your mind and allow these ancient ideas to enter for your thoughtful consideration.
The Divine and the Demonic
There are always two kinds of living beings in the creation—the divine and the demonic. Just as every state has two kinds of citizens—those who abide by the laws and those who do not—the state of the universe is filled with two kinds of living beings: those who abide by its natural laws and those who try to defy them. The former are called divine; the latter, demonic.
In other words, a demon need not be a huge monster with ten heads and a thousand arms, nor a little red fiend with a pitchfork. Of course, there may very well be demons with grotesque features and supernatural powers, but the demons who live among us generally appear quite ordinary. Your mailman might be a demon. So might your grocer, your congressman, or anyone else you know. For that matter, so might you.
How, then, can we tell whether a person is divine or demonic? By observing his qualities.
“The killer of the soul, whoever he may be, must enter into the planets known as the worlds of the faithless, full of darkness and ignorance” (Isopanisad mantra 3).
This verse describes the demons as atma-hana, killers of the soul. How is that? According to the Bhagavad-gita, the soul is eternal and can never be killed. Even when the temporary body dies, the soul continues to exist (na hanyate hanyamane sarire). So how can anyone be a “killer of the soul”? The answer is also in the Bhagavad-gita: when the eternal soul identifies himself with the temporary body, he becomes subject to repeated birth and death. Therefore, when one does not cultivate spiritual understanding, when he does not try to free the eternal soul—himself—from the cycle of repeated birth and death, he becomes a killer of the soul. He is killing himself by refusing to accept spiritual instruction about the soul and how it can be liberated from material bondage.
Achieving liberation from birth and death is not difficult, but one must take guidance from a bona fide, self-realized spiritual master who has understood the Absolute Truth.
arthra
Baha'i
The soul in my belief is essentially spiritual and is only associated with the body... not connected to it as a gland or such.
"It is quite apparent to the seeing mind that a man's spirit is something very different from his physical body. The spirit is changeless, indestructible. The progress and development of the soul, the joy and sorrow of the soul, are independent of the physical body."
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 64
Death is a liberation from the material existence and the soul is compared to a bird fleeing a broken cage (the body). The condition of the soul is another matter... The soul can be alienated from God or close or near to God... The soul can progress over time through the worlds of God and eventually come into the presence of God.
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Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
The Soul defined in the Bhagavad gita
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges the existence of both God and the individual souls as eternal realities.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges the incarnation of the individual souls,
their delusion and bondage to the repeating cycle of births and deaths to due desire-ridden actions.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges solutions for their salvation, release of the soul from the body, its re-establishment of relationship with God.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges that the soul is indestructible and eternal (2.18).
It neither slays, nor can it be slain (2.19).
It is never, born and it never dies. After coming into existence, it never ceases to be.
It is eternal, permanent and very ancient (2.20).
It does not suffer, nor can it be tainted. At the time of death it does not die, but leaves the body and enters a new one (2.22).
Weapons cannot pierce it, fire cannot burn it, water cannot moisten it and wind cannot dry it (2.23).
It is impenetrable, incombustible, all pervading, stable and immobile (2.24).
It is invisible, imperceptible and immutable (2.25).
The individual Soul is seeking to re-link with the Lord God by cultivating the etiquette of personal service to Godhead, the supreme Soul.
The soul is superior to everything else in the human being.
The senses are great, greater than the senses is the mind,
greater than the mind is buddhi and greater than the buddhi is the Self (3.42).
The soul is the highest, eternal reality, whereas the senses, the mind, intelligence, etc., are finite and dependent realities.
The supreme soul is localised along side with the individual Soul and together they literally reside in the location of the heart, and is referred to as the indwelling witness , or, super-soul.
The embodied soul is caught in the grip of the Material Cosmic Energy.
It cannot escape from it on its own, without adequate spiritual effort and divine help.
At the time of death, the individual Soul leaves the body and goes to any of a
myriad of new-births, as afforded by the fruits-of-their-lifes'-actions [aka karma].
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges that the state of mind in which a person
leaves the body at the time of death is important and will determine
the course of his after-life [aka the next birth].
Whatever the person thinks and remembers in those moments
that alone he achieves thereafter (8.6).
Thus if someone departs from the body thinking of God alone,
he would undoubtedly attain him (8.5, 12 &13).
A liberated soul is different from the embodied or the bound soul.
The individual Soul is caught in the snare of the repeating cycle of births and deaths,
whereas a liberated soul is free from all entanglements and is
forever free from the control of material cosmic energy.
Even though the soul is within everyone, people cannot feel its presence
because they remain distracted by the activity of their senses and minds.
If they succeed in withdrawing their senses and look inwards,
they have a chance of coming into contact with it, this is referred to as Self-realisation.
The transcendent path of loving service to Godhead so as to attain the stage of
reciprocal inter-personal association with the Supreme personality of Godhead.
PS: Because the Supreme personality of Godhead is explained as a definitive
personage with His own name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia and pastimes ---it is to be understood that the individual Soul is only a small part-and-parcel spark of the Supreme-Soul, aka Godhead in-person.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges the existence of both God and the individual souls as eternal realities.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges the incarnation of the individual souls,
their delusion and bondage to the repeating cycle of births and deaths to due desire-ridden actions.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges solutions for their salvation, release of the soul from the body, its re-establishment of relationship with God.
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges that the soul is indestructible and eternal (2.18).
It neither slays, nor can it be slain (2.19).
It is never, born and it never dies. After coming into existence, it never ceases to be.
It is eternal, permanent and very ancient (2.20).
It does not suffer, nor can it be tainted. At the time of death it does not die, but leaves the body and enters a new one (2.22).
Weapons cannot pierce it, fire cannot burn it, water cannot moisten it and wind cannot dry it (2.23).
It is impenetrable, incombustible, all pervading, stable and immobile (2.24).
It is invisible, imperceptible and immutable (2.25).
The individual Soul is seeking to re-link with the Lord God by cultivating the etiquette of personal service to Godhead, the supreme Soul.
The soul is superior to everything else in the human being.
The senses are great, greater than the senses is the mind,
greater than the mind is buddhi and greater than the buddhi is the Self (3.42).
The soul is the highest, eternal reality, whereas the senses, the mind, intelligence, etc., are finite and dependent realities.
The supreme soul is localised along side with the individual Soul and together they literally reside in the location of the heart, and is referred to as the indwelling witness , or, super-soul.
The embodied soul is caught in the grip of the Material Cosmic Energy.
It cannot escape from it on its own, without adequate spiritual effort and divine help.
At the time of death, the individual Soul leaves the body and goes to any of a
myriad of new-births, as afforded by the fruits-of-their-lifes'-actions [aka karma].
The Bhagavad gita acknowledges that the state of mind in which a person
leaves the body at the time of death is important and will determine
the course of his after-life [aka the next birth].
Whatever the person thinks and remembers in those moments
that alone he achieves thereafter (8.6).
Thus if someone departs from the body thinking of God alone,
he would undoubtedly attain him (8.5, 12 &13).
A liberated soul is different from the embodied or the bound soul.
The individual Soul is caught in the snare of the repeating cycle of births and deaths,
whereas a liberated soul is free from all entanglements and is
forever free from the control of material cosmic energy.
Even though the soul is within everyone, people cannot feel its presence
because they remain distracted by the activity of their senses and minds.
If they succeed in withdrawing their senses and look inwards,
they have a chance of coming into contact with it, this is referred to as Self-realisation.
The transcendent path of loving service to Godhead so as to attain the stage of
reciprocal inter-personal association with the Supreme personality of Godhead.
PS: Because the Supreme personality of Godhead is explained as a definitive
personage with His own name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia and pastimes ---it is to be understood that the individual Soul is only a small part-and-parcel spark of the Supreme-Soul, aka Godhead in-person.
B
Brother Rando
Guest
Isaiah 42:8
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
Young's Literal Translation
I am Jehovah, this is My name, And Mine honour to another I give not, Nor My praise to graven images.
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
Young's Literal Translation
I am Jehovah, this is My name, And Mine honour to another I give not, Nor My praise to graven images.
American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
B
Brother Rando
Guest
Thank you for your reply. Death was the punishment. A person simply ceases to exist for they go back where they come from. "And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person." (Genesis 2:7)
"But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17)
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
"But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17)
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
The Abrahamic Traditions see the soul as created and ergo not eternal.
The Abrahamics do not believe in reincarnation.
I would further add that if there is reincarnation, it's not the soul, as the soul is identified with the individual.
The Abrahamics do not see salvation as release from the body, and by extension do not dismiss creation as being 'outside' or 'not included in' beatitude.
Scripture acknowledges the soul as created and therefore suffers contingency. The soul increases and therefore decreases, can grow or dimish, be healthy or ill, etc., and in extremis can die. Scripture makes numerous references to this.
In the Abrahamics the Divine is Immanent to the created, nowhere more so than the Divine's immanence to the soul, but the Divine is not referred to as a 'soul'.
The Abrahamics don't see the Godhead as such. God does not have a name, form, etc. other than the names by which man knows Him. The Incarnate Second Person of the Trinity has human name, form, etc., but this is in reference to His humanity, not His divinity.
A matter of interpretation to be sure.....
Body, mind and soul...
One of these is not like the other one..
Body spirit and soul
Again.... And when it comes to defining...the question was asked in Christianity.... So I gotta assume we are talking from a christian perspective...
Which documents are we using to determine what the soul is? And if it is currently living, when was it created?
One of these is not like the other one..
Body spirit and soul
Again.... And when it comes to defining...the question was asked in Christianity.... So I gotta assume we are talking from a christian perspective...
Which documents are we using to determine what the soul is? And if it is currently living, when was it created?
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
Only an incarnation of God [aka an 'Avatar' that descends to be amongst us] can "reincarnate" [reincarnation is the vernacular terminology]
The Gita explains that the individual of "transmigrates" [aka migrates] from one birth to another.
According to this, You, Thomas, will never again ever "reincarnate" ---but "You" will be born again and again until you are re-united in Heaven face-to-face with God the Father ---but all remnants of Thomas's personal traits will be dissolved at death, and the soul will start the whole process all over again.
According to this, Jesus's rising from the dead and ascending to the right hand of the God the Father in Heaven ---Proves there is an AFTERLIFE.
Thomas, please explain what happened to all the individuals in the last century represented on the chart below:
They didn't have souls? They were 99% Soul-less?
Genocide in 20th Century - Jan2006 NatGeoMag64.jpg
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
If I said such a thing as this I would be a presenting myself as a all-knowing Guru.
There are 3 checks: Guru, Sadhu, Sastra [mentor, mentor(s), scripture] and these three are routinely cited when proclaiming Truths...
Yeah ... I'm following the Abrahamic traditional commentaries, only God is absolute, and reincarnation never really reared its head until the opening dialogue with Asia in the last couple of centuries.A matter of interpretation to be sure.....
I'd say all three are distinct, yet one ... body is not mind is not soul, but is the person.
Quite ... it's the only reason I responded.
I'd say the whole thing starts with Genesis 2:7:
"And the LORD God formed man (Hb: adam) of the dust of the ground (adamah), and breathed (naphach) into his nostrils the breath (neshamah) of life (chay); and man became a living (chay) soul (nefesh)."
This opens up a huge study of Hebrew, as 'ruach', 'nefesh', 'neshamah' and other terms are tied into the idea of soul, life, breath and blood. One could say that where there is animation, there is soul. Arguably, a dead body is animate at the bacteriological level, but the rule of common sense applies. Do bacteria have souls? Do they have life? If yes to the latter, then yes to the former.
The Hebrew texts and commentaries then categorise the quality or content of the soul, which might be likened to degrees of realisation, enlightenment, etc., which the Abrahamics see as the interplay between the soul and the Immanent Divine in and to it.
The soul is, according the the Scriptures, subject to finitude and contingency: it delights and it sorrows, it grows and it diminishes, it can rise or it can fall, ergo it is not absolute, not eternal, not divine, although open to such in a substantial manner (as is the mind, in an objective sense).
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
Divine is Immanent
I have no idea what Immanent means ---especially in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin nor English.
I have no idea what Immanent means ---especially in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin nor English.
If inwasnt clear...which definition is used for.soul, which religion's scripture is considered, would all obviously provide different answers to the same question
So in my mind, if you wish to get close to any answer or any consensus...one must first clarify where one is coming from in their answer.
Or we can dosi doe
So in my mind, if you wish to get close to any answer or any consensus...one must first clarify where one is coming from in their answer.
Or we can dosi doe