Can the Soul die?

[Thomas]

Once upon a time, each soul was in the presence of God's Graceful presence ---and the individual Soul considered what the spender would be like if they themselves became God.
Soul each soul entered the Material stratum of the Spiritual World to be born as a Brahma ---a progenitor on their own.

Is that a traditional teaching?

The Platonic notion is much the same: that souls became satiated in their eternal contemplation of God and turned away and, in so doing, began to fall.
The material world was then created as a means of arresting the fall – thus the material world is seen as a 'necessary evil' in the Hellenic realms, rather than something good in its own right in the Hebrew.

In early Christian doctrine one can see the influence of the Hellenic viewpoint. Origen, notably, presented the physical world not as a prison but a pedagogy, a place of the instruction and correction of souls, but this view was deemed heterodox by the majority of Fathers.

The Fathers, for the most part, follow Scripture.

The 2nd century gnostics adopted the Hellenic notion wholeheartedly if, as ever, somewhat simplistically.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

WATCH WORD: High Affinities

Forest gump is real? OK sure, I'll.accept.that but how about citations for the other two?

I did say:
"as a real life ... Forest Gump"

But Dear Wil how much do we know how life is full of real Forest Gumps ... BUT 'unfornunate' Forest Gumps.
It's the bread and butter of daily news headlines.

"Fire and brimstone contains life forms"
Ok. MAYBE I spoke a lie?

The Vedas say life exists on the Sun. BUT such life is physically composed, as per specification, to have a fire-ry body.

The are five elements ["panca-maha-bhutani'], thus:
We have living creatures in earth; in water ... in fire, in air, etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancha_Bhoota

Creatures with accommodating bodies that are custom made to live in a stratum different
[yet inter-connected with the bio-system; and, is approachable---to some degree]
and exist side-by-side with creatures of other stratums.


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NOW, MY ONLY PROOF:
[now you may claim this is not verbatim "what I claimed" . . . but I should get POINTS for having Heated Sulfur Plumes as part of it!]

Eyeless Shrimp Discovered at Deepest Volcanic Vents
Scientists announced today some of the first details from the first expedition to the sunless,
scalding-hot world of the deepest volcanic sea vents on Earth.

The announcement comes nearly two years after researchers aboard the
British research vessel James Cook crowded around video monitors and
became the first humans to glimpse an extraordinary sight 3 miles (5 kilometers) below them,
at the bottom of the Caribbean Sea: slender, rocky spires towering 20 feet (6 meters) above the seafloor,
spewing forth a sooty jet of metal-rich fluid some 3,600 feet (1,100 m) high.

http://www.livescience.com/31034-embargoed-eyeless-shrimp-discovered-deepest-volcanic-vents.html


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Of particular interest are the hyperthermophiles, which are defined as microorganisms
able to grow at 90°C and above. About 20 different types of such organisms are now known (6).
They have been found both within the walls of black smoker chimneys and where the
hydrothermal vent fluids mix with the surrounding seawater.
Classification of the hyperthermophiles has provided new insights into evolution and the origin of life.

Many mesophilic microbes in the hydrothermal vent environment use H2S as an energy source.
This molecule is generally highly toxic to aerobic life forms, yet dense populations of organisms
flourish in a variety of sulfide-enriched environments.
How have they evolved to deal with this extreme environment?

Hydrothermal vent communities can inhabit sulfide-rich habitats because of
evolution of detoxification mechanism that often involve microbial symbionts.
Detoxification of sulfide through binding to blood-borne components is known in
chemosynthetic vestimentiferans and vesicomyid clams and is particularly well
characterized for the tube worm Riftia pachyptila (15, 16).
The abundant respiratory hemoglobin present in the plume of Riftia is capable of
binding oxygen and sulfide simultaneously with very high affinities.
http://www.pnas.org/content/97/24/12961.full

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Is that a traditional teaching?

Yes Sir. It is Traditional teaching.

 

[wil]

Life at over 90 degrees not surprising...

Life in the sun?

Mw thinks you will have to redefine life as we know it.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Life at over 90 degrees not surprising...

Life in the sun?

Mw thinks you will have to redefine life as we know it.

Yes of course WE CANNOT ENTER THERE. We know little about it. We don't have "THE RIGHT STUFF".
It is beyond our purview. It is not for us to trespass there.

All I have said is that IT IS WRITTEN IN THE VEDAS. IOW somewhere it is officially part of some scripture. It is where the Sun-God lives. 'Surya-deva' lives there. We cannot live in water nor in the Air nor in the earth ---except artificially in a sort of an imitation way.

This picture shows how extreme ends of the spectrum live side by side ---yet one cannot enter the other's sphere ---and one side would never deign to touch upon:

 

[RJM]

Life at over 90 degrees not surprising...

Life in the sun?

Mw thinks you will have to redefine life as we know it.

Perhaps life is what animates the form? Whem the life goes, the form loses animation? What is life? Perhaps there are dimensions existing mixed with ours, full of life that we can't see or perceive with our carbon-based senses? Perhaps there's life on Mars, on Jupiter, invisible to our senses, that perhaps can't see or perceive us, either? Perhaps there are spiritual beings, that walk between worlds and dimensions, hugely outside and beyond our own human-being senses and perceptions -- that may remain invisible to us -- or perhaps sometimes choose to make themselves 'visible' to us -- to seers, etc, lol

 

[Thomas]

Where there is life, there is soul, that's what soul is.

 

[RJM]

Where there is life, there is soul, that's what soul is.

God is alive. Not dependent on any sort of form or body.

But is life itself synomous with soul? Can a microbe really be said to have an individual soul?

 

[wil]

Perhaps

Perhaps I am actually a billionaire in a virtual reality machine enjoying this entire experience in a few minutes smoke break.

Where there is life, there is soul, that's what soul is.

So worms, bacteria, lichen, and figs have souls?

 

[Thomas]

But is life itself synomous with soul? Can a microbe really be said to have an individual soul?

"And God created great whales, and every living (chay) creature (nephesh) that moveth ..." (Genesis 1:21)

"and God said 'Let the earth bring forth the living (chay) creature (nephesh) after his kind ... " (1:24)

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (chay) soul (nephesh)" (2:7).

Nephesh is translated as soul (475 times), life (117), person (29). It is used to imply soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion. More precisely, that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, the soul or inner being of man.

In Hebrew anthropology, life is intimately connected with the blood: "For the life (nephesh) of the flesh (basar) is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh): for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh)" (Leviticus 17:11)

Primarily I think because the sign of life was seen in animation, so anything that breathes or moves has life, and creatures breathe and the blood moves.

 

[Thomas]

So worms, bacteria, lichen, and figs have souls?

Technical question. I think classical Judaism would say no, because life is in the blood (see above) ... but then worms have 'fluids', flora has 'sap' and its own juices, bacteria too ... so I assume a more informed view would say 'yes', as 'blood' then becomes a generic term for the fluids in a body necessary for that body (be it whatever) to function?

According to multiverse theory, every worm, bacteria, lichen and fig produces n-number of alternative universes according to the number of available responses anything can make in any given situation ... et cetera, ad infinitum ...

 

[RJM]

"And God created great whales, and every living (chay) creature (nephesh) that moveth ..." (Genesis 1:21)

"and God said 'Let the earth bring forth the living (chay) creature (nephesh) after his kind ... " (1:24)

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (chay) soul (nephesh)" (2:7).

Nephesh is translated as soul (475 times), life (117), person (29). It is used to imply soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion. More precisely, that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, the soul or inner being of man.

In Hebrew anthropology, life is intimately connected with the blood: "For the life (nephesh) of the flesh (basar) is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh): for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul (nephesh)" (Leviticus 17:11)

Primarily I think because the sign of life was seen in animation, so anything that breathes or moves has life, and creatures breathe and the blood moves.

Which becomes a complete cop-out, imo: that God wants the blood. The sacrifice of a lamb is really the giving to God of what could be sold or eaten, or worn -- of a valuable possession?

 

[Thomas]

Which becomes a complete cop-out, imo: that God wants the blood...

I wasn't defending the Levitical law, simply pointing out the viewpoint on life/blood/soul.

 

[RJM]

I wasn't defending the Levitical law, simply pointing out the viewpoint on life/blood/soul.

I quite understand that. Just getting in my 10c worth

 

[wil]

Yes and instead of donating food directly, the donation today is that which is used in exchange to buy the lamb or other valuable possessions, ie cash/check in the donation plate, or hey we have auto debit from your bank account ....for your convenience.

Save you cheap!! Anyone priced an unblemished fatted lamb lately?

 

[RJM]

I'm Zimbabwe, where the currency is becoming worthless again, some schools are allowing payment of fees in goats. I'm quite serious. You can Google it.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

I'm Zimbabwe, where the currency is becoming worthless again, some schools are allowing payment of fees in goats. I'm quite serious. You can Google it.

For some reason I thought you had moved away. The mind fixing things that don't need no fixing.

 

[RJM]

For some reason I thought you had moved away. The mind fixing things that don't need no fixing.

Oh no, I live in England now, in Devon. For the last six years. And I spent most of my life in South Africa, in Cape Town. But l still have relatives and contacts in Zim. Is that what you mean, about moving away?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Oh no, I live in England now, in Devon. For the last six years. And I spent most of my life in South Africa, in Cape Town. But l still have relatives and contacts in Zim. Is that what you mean, about moving away?

Yes, now reality is in sync again, thanks!

 

[wil]

Confusion I believe is .. I'm Zimbabwe.

Us making an assumption the word "in" was left out when actually the word "from" was left out, or we should have interpreted it to mean .... I am Zimbabwean...