Arian Christology

Humans have always tried to manipulate Christ to fit their own belief and philosophy.

True .. I don't see anything wrong with speculation from logical reasoning.
To claim that it is "the absolute truth" without authority is another matter.

..so we have the Bible as an authority if you believe in its truths..
..then we have the Qur'an..
..and then the writings of Baha'u'llah.

We all know where we stand.
 
IMO they always need to piggyback on Jesus.

They don't NEED to. You only see things in your perspective.
i.e. the Qur'an is not true

For me, I see it as explaining what went wrong with the evolution of Christianity.
 
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e. the Qur'an is not true
Limited ...

Good dodge. Why do they need to relate to Jesus at all? What do they have anything about Jesus? They have their own prophets and their own scriptures and their own problems; why are they taking it back to Jesus all the time?
 
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Expand this, please ...?

Good question :)
It is for the individual to decide what might be directly from God or might be from speculation.
We all differ .. we are not all the same.

Personally, I don't like the worship of "scholars" or a particular "church".
I was raised as a Protestant, after all ;)
 
is for the individual to decide what might be directly from God or might be from speculation.
We all differ .. we are not all the same
You'll have to ask God why he is mentioned in the Qur'an, but I can imagine why. :)
[ the author of the Qur'an is claimed to be God through angel Gabriel ]
The Quran it's from God? Where anyone differs, it's not from God?
 
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The Quran it's from God? Where anyone differs, it's not from God?

As you say, it's not that simple.
We have to decide for ourselves who is likely to have a correct belief / creed.
However, I'm not aware that there is any Muslim scholar who thinks
that the Qura'n does not stress tawhid .. the Oneness of God.
 
I see that many Christian churches have their good points and bad points..
..but then we all judge by different criteria through rose-coloured spectacles?

I might not believe in the concept that the Holy Spirit is part of an orthodox trinity.
That does not mean that I don't believe that God blesses us in a spiritual way.
Origin understood many things in an allegorical way .. and God knows best.
 
I'm not aware that there is any Muslim scholar who thinks
that the Qura'n does not stress tawhid .. the Oneness of God.
Other faiths differ. They have different scriptures and beliefs, different gods even What makes the "Muslim scholar' right?
 
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So what? Other faiths differ. They have different scriptures and beliefs, different gods even What makes "Muslim scholar' right?

What makes ANY scholar right? :)
An atheist does not believe in a god.
..so why should they believe any scholar is right?

That does not stop them being interested in different religions or even practising them.
Some religions aren't about Divinity.

Islam and Christianity are .. and they both propose "the One God of Abraham".
If anybody decides that the Qur'an is not from God, then that is between them and God.
God knows why we say what we say and do what we do.
Sincere believers of either religion have nothing to fear, imo.
 
That Perfect mirror is what we see God in in every age God sends a Messenger.
Allah sent Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, but you, against what Bahaollah said, do not recognize him.
.. why would we want to stay in the matrix of this world and not to be born again in spirit, never to return to the matrix?
No one can get out of the Matrix. Christians have their way of being born again and Bahais have their way to be born again. These two ways are different. The differences in religions cannot be papered over.
Islam and Christianity are .. and they both propose "the One God of Abraham".
You are forgetting the 'wanna-bees', Bahais and Ahmadiyyas. :)
 
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That God is the Sun, the Holy Spirit is the life giving rays of the Sun and the Mirror is the Messenger.
In reference of Christ, no, Scripture refutes that interpretation. You're not explaining the Trinity, you're explaining it away.

This explains the Trinity with Logic and Reason.
No, it really doesn't, it rationalises it to fit within a common model – not that which is Revealed in Scripture.

An explanation with Logic and Reason is:
The Father denotes God's Is-ness, the Son denotes God's self-awareness, the Holy Spirit denotes God's self-understanding: the Father who is above all, and the Son who is through all, and the Holy Spirit who is in all... For it is through the Trinity that the Father wills, the Son orders and the Spirit manifests (with acknowledgement to Hippolytus).

The Son is not a Messenger, He is the Message ...
 
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Then I see there is an issue. We will never see the material body of Jesus ever again.
I would not be so sure :rolleyes: The post-resurrection sightings recorded in Scripture give subtle indications that are missed at first glance.

What Genesis indicates is the holistic nature of creation. The divine principle is immanent to the world in the very substance of matter while simultaneously, by virtue of Itself, utterly transcends it.

What is intrinsic to Abrahamic gnosis is the unity of formal and formless, of matter and spirit; the two are not in opposition but in union, and without that union one cannot comprehend the perfections which are intrinsic to it.

In the Transfiguration and the Resurrection, Christ reveals the spiritual nature of the flesh. In Christ this message of renewal is not merely a formula of theoretical expediency, it is a living proof, a physical, fleshly actuality, of the Principle.

Personally I am tired of this bag of bones and it animal tendencies, why would we want to stay in the matrix of this world and not to be born again in spirit , never to return to the matrix?
Because that is what we are. We have to get away from the idea that where we are is 'bad' – in one sense that is an offence against God, or at least a self-willed blindness. We are human beings – not physical beings, not spiritual beings – but both.

The idea is not to return to it, but to transform it. When we wake up to that message ...

Someone gives a thirsting someone a drink of water; a starving someone a crust of bread; a sickening someone an act of care; a dying someone a word of comfort; an imprisoned someone a word of hope ... every act, is the same act, it is love made flesh in act – and the angels can only stand and wonder.

Let's not run from our vocation.
 
We are human beings – not physical beings, not spiritual beings – but both.

The idea is not to return to it, but to transform it. When we wake up to that message ...

Someone gives a thirsting someone a drink of water; a starving someone a crust of bread; a sickening someone an act of care; a dying someone a word of comfort; an imprisoned someone a word of hope ... every act, is the same act, it is love made flesh in act – and the angels can only stand and wonder.

Indeed .. we are physical beings with a non-material soul.
Our acts of compassion for others is an essential part of faith.
 
Indeed .. we are physical beings with a non-material soul.
Our acts of compassion for others is an essential part of faith.
And some!

I saw a video, a Moslem father teaching his son to wash, and there really was a sense of the sacred about it ... a really moving moment.
 
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One can only speculate as the Romans burnt so much of the history of "heretics" and established their own version.
If you keep banging on, it still doesn't make it true -- just speculation, as you correctly observe.

It is ALL speculation.
Claiming that Arius believed this or believed that is speculation.

What you believe is speculation i.e. the orthodox trinity
One can claim that that is what the Bible says .. or it is part of our tradition which was established
by the church Fathers .. but can you prove it?
I don't think so.
 
Christ is far more than what you want to limit him to be as 'Jesus son of Mary'

Christ does not require allowance or approval
 
The Son is not a Messenger, He is the Message ...

Jesus was the Messenger. The Holy Spirit which became known as Christ, in the Station of the Son, is the Message.

All the best Thomas may life be Faith in service.

Regards Tony
 
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