Honor thy Father and thy Mother

[wil]

Always eh? Really?

My story ain't as horrific as many... I mean those that include incest and selling children into slavery or prostitution? Come on, you going to hell because your parents had sex?

My story ain't close to as horrible as many but my dad had issues with parenting...well parenting me...my sister's had little prpblem.with him other than his treatment toward me.

Now I was a rebel (surprised?) A trouble maker, got the wooden spoon from the babysitter before 3, the belt from dad, the ruler on my knuckles from teachers and paddles from the principle.

I was a problem child, dad was an alcoholic and we fought verbally on many occasions...

Why should I honor him? What for this commandment?

He was an example to me as how not to parent...I give him credit for that.

 

[RabbiO]

Always eh? Really?

As you can probably guess, Judaism's response is more nuanced than that.

Under the circumstances you paint, while you might have certain obligations as a son to a parent, the overriding consideration would be חַיֶּיךָ קוֹדְמִים -chayecha kodmin- your life takes precedence, the obligation you owe to yourself.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Always eh? Really?

My story ain't as horrific as many... I mean those that include incest and selling children into slavery or prostitution? Come on, you going to hell because your parents had sex?

My story ain't close to as horrible as many but my dad had issues with parenting...well parenting me...my sister's had little prpblem.with him other than his treatment toward me.

Now I was a rebel (surprised?) A trouble maker, got the wooden spoon from the babysitter before 3, the belt from dad, the ruler on my knuckles from teachers and paddles from the principle.

I was a problem child, dad was an alcoholic and we fought verbally on many occasions...

Why should I honor him? What for this commandment?

He was an example to me as how not to parent...I give him credit for that.

Islam confirms the ruling to honour and respect your parents, but the obedience to God stands over it.
In particular in the time of Muhammad (p.b.u.h), many people adhered Islam, while their parents didn't. Muhammad taught his companions to keep respecting their parents, but not to obey them against our belief and values.
The respect can also be expressed in keeping firm against their sin, and call them to the righteous path. The respect would be expressed in endurance and availability rather than in obedience.
Your father is an alcoholic. Apart from the damage it does in the family, he sins against himself (that's the reason why the Quran admonishes better not to drink at all). Respect would be to keep trying to overcome that evil. You can respect, even love a person and reject his (or, in general, also her) deeds.
This doesn't only apply for children but equally to parents. Good parents would correct the deeds of the child times and times again, but not give up respect and love.

 

[Faithfulservant]

As a Christian we are called to forgive and love one another. My 77 year old mother lives with me and my family. We did not have a good relationship due to her life choices. I was offended and held on to my offense until God revealed it to me. Im spending the twilight of my mothers life loving her and her loving me. I wouldnt change anything.

 

[wil]

As you can probably guess, Judaism's response is more nuanced than that.

Under the circumstances you paint, while you might have certain obligations as a son to a parent, the overriding consideration would be חַיֶּיךָ קוֹדְמִים -chayecha kodmin- your life takes precedence, the obligation you owe to yourself.

Judaism's interpretation of the OT is often so vastly different than Christianity's

 

[Thomas]

Judaism's interpretation of the OT is often so vastly different than Christianity's

Like @RabbiO, I think Christianity's response is more nuanced than you suppose.

Sadly, it seems your experience of Christianity lacks that nuance.

 

[wil]

Like @RabbiO, I think Christianity's response is more nuanced than you suppose.

Sadly, it seems your experience of Christianity lacks that nuance.

Lol....yup my experience is the Christian teachers and preachers often instead of answering the question just said I was wrong and moved on without explanation.

 

[wil]

Lol....yup my experience is the Christian teachers and preachers often instead of answering the question just said I was wrong and moved on without explanation.

That's not fair....you've had to put up with me much longer than any other "teacher" and have been quite helpful. But I think you see my point.

As a Christian we are called to forgive and love one another.

A solution. And I believe I have...forgiven...just haven't fully elevated that to "honor". I know I was a trouble.child...we did not have (or i.did not get) ADD/ADHD diagnosis then, and inwould have had issues with being prescribed methamphetamine with my addictive perspnality...also I now know (as a parent) that when you become a parent you don't know what the heck you are doing, the frustration of dealing with an obstinant little boy when you have two obedient daughters was a challenge he was not up to. While our first 20 years were tumultuous, the next ten I separated myself from him, and the last 10 we vasilated between getting along and tolerating each other....as i said

He was an example to me as how not to parent...I give him credit for that.

I credit him for that...although honor would imply that was intentional.
(Suddenly the Sunday.school answer of 'they meant it as evil, but G!d meant it for.good' comes to mind

 

[Thomas]

This Be The Verse Philip Larkin

They ******** up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

 

[Faithfulservant]

For me its all about Grace. Grace is something that i dont deserve but its a gift that i receive from my heavenly Father in gratitude i show others Grace as none of us are perfect. Granted its easier to show my mother that Grace than others.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Wil i want to try to help you with perspective if i may? We are all broken in one way or another and we are all products of our environments or up bringing. In recent years ive discovered why my mom was broken and why she in a sense self destructed throughout her life. It allowed me to be compassionate and made it easier to move forward with healing. Do you know your dads history and is it worthwhile to find out? Just a thought. In recovery we call these things hurts habits and hangups.

 

[wil]

Do you know your dads history and is it worthwhile to find out?

He was the first in the family to make it to college. He was the only one of the family to move more than 10 miles from home. All my aunts and uncles (both sides) were extremely prejudice and bigoted and listening to my mom's stories he was as well yet he did not raise us that way...for this I appreciate him, for other actions I do not "honor" him.

But this again isn't about me...(I ain't concerned with hell or the commandment for myself) but am interested in a discussion as to what it means to actual victims (described as much as I care previously) as to how they need to honor their abusive parents and why (if believers) damnation should be in their future should they not.

Kudos @talib-al-kalim for a succinct Muslim response

 

[JustGeorge]

My mom was okay. She did well in some areas, not well at others. She was human.

My dad didn't do great. There were hard feelings for awhile, but he took steps to amend his ways, and he's come around. I'm proud of him.

However, I don't have any opinion on whether or not folks should honor their parents. My spouse lived through a nightmare that I won't even detail with his mother and stepfather. He was on his own at 12(it was safer that way). She is a dangerous person. I'd never tell him, or anyone who had gone through a similar situation, how to respond.

I think its case by case, person by person.

 

[rocala]

I used to feel very angry with my mother. She was weak and seemed to have trouble grasping reality. I thought my upbringing explained my own shortcomings.

One day, I just realised that she had every reason to be like that. Her own upbringing must have been odd, my grandmother, although loving, was highly neurotic. But then, she was entitled to be. She was six when her mother died, and later, her step-mother starved and beat those little children. As for the step-mother, I don't know her story.

Where does the blame stop?

 

[talib-al-kalim]

I am happy to have a great mother, and I had a great father as well (he passed away) so that I have all reason to love them, and I do. But I also know all shades of different fates and relationships from my large patchwork family. I don't want to go into details here.
I think, the English word "honour" is quite, but not exactly what is commanded. It's somehow what you agree to outstanding people (or to dictators who force their people to "honour" them).
What is meant, in my opinion, is an almost unconditional commitment to that relationship, which is mutual but not equal.

I said "almost" because it would not apply to a natural parent who didn't even try to raise the child (although it would have been possible), who refuses any contact or who sinned severely without ever asking for forgiveness.
But for the rest, yes, this relationship is sacred.

I think, in ancient times, it was somehow seen as natural that the parents care for the children, not at least because they had to rely on them when they were old and weak. It's still so, although in richer countries, there is an independent system for material support and there is even professional support available for people who are not able to care for themselves, but this doesn't replace a child's attention and presence.

 

[wil]

One day, I just realised that she had every reason to be like that. .

Where does the blame stop?

The buck stops here.

I got whipped by a belt, fetching my own switch (stick selection was tricky, them willows were resilient and stung, another stick it broke the first wack you were sent back for another one) they grew up in a pre civil rights, pre domestic violence, lre Dr spock, spare the rod spoil the child world where they were to be seen but not heard. That thinking went on for millenia...

It stopped with my kids. Violence was not a method of discipline or training. To the point where my son refused appointments to our best national military academies, turned down a "free" rode to college..."Dad, I have no interest going anywhere they believe raising your voice is a motivational tool"

I could not argue that! (nor be so proud)