Am I the Only Person on Earth Who Believes Genesis 2:17?

Thomas said:
Question for @Base12:

Matthew 18:6-9
"... it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea... And if thy hand, or thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee... And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee having one eye to enter into life, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire"
So do you suggest we read this literally – that Jesus is proposing and thus validating self-mutilation and suicide?
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They could be taken literal or symbolically. The symbolic meaning of the second example is that 'members' of the Body are referring to Gene sequences that are too carnal to keep. They must be 'cut out' of the Genome.

The Law is the Law. It is good. It will be written into the Genome Tables of the Heart. It will be hardwired into us, into our new DNA.

Thomas said:
or this Matthew 5:39-42
"But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other: And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him. And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two, Give to him that asketh of thee and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away."
So we should scrap the legal system and most of our social moral codes?
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That is what some propose. We know it did not work the first time because our DNA is too corrupt to follow the Law. The Glorified Body will follow the Law, however. Rules are rules.
 
Just an FYI for @Thomas . You obviously do not have to watch these, but Dan did a whole bunch of vids on Genesis 2:17 if you are interested in more detailed analysis...





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I am not sure if there are duplicates in the above list. Sorry. It looks like he is wearing different shirts though... lol.
 
Thomas said:
Were Adam and Eve immortal? No, they were created and their life would have a span, and they would die.
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The First Adam and the Woman Ishshah were created immortal. We know this because death entered the world after they partook...

Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

Even the plants and animals were immortal. The food they ate was the Word of God...

Jeremiah 15:16
"Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts."

No death means no death... period.

The reincarnated couple (Second Adam and Eve) were created mortal and with reproductive organs.
 
Base12 said:
I am not trying to be rude
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Don't worry, it was my gsult for engaging you.
Base12 said:
Dan is only one of many that have proven it over and over again. I simply do not have the time to spend on these forums to convince people.
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Occam's razor comes to mind... a "proof" becomes mainstream because it can be explained...

You got too much going on for me to keep up with.. i am out.

Base12 said:
There is a Spirit at work that does not want this information to reach the masses.
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It appears to me the masses prefer the spirits.
 
Base12 said:
Yes, I can. Like I mentioned before, by altering the text you have broken dozens of others. You never went back to double check your work. Just take your favorite translation/interpretation and plug it into the rest of the verses that use the same phrase, and you will see it does not work at all.
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This is a silly argument (your examples are not as conclusive as you seem to think):
The Hebrew deploys a 'paranomastic infinitive' – it's a doubled-verb form, in this case 'die' – for emphatic effect.
The emphasis is, in Genesis 2:17, they will most definitely and without a shadow of a doubt die.

When?

According to the text, almost a millennium later.

+++

The text says "In the day" Note, not 'on' the day or 'on that very day' for emphasis, but 'in the day' which is a phrase that means in the day/age/era, such as 'in my father's day' ...

So did God lie? Or get it wrong?
Think carefully ...
If yes to either of those, then toss the Bible in the bin, because what's the point of building a belief based on lies or errors.

Or ... maybe ... God neither lied nor got it wrong, but some people did, insisting on an absolutely literal take on the text, as it translates into English, without any allowance for a variety of possible meanings, and without seeing that the translator is obliged to interpret the text when making a translation, as we are obliged to interpret a text when we read it.

The entire Jewish Tradition – which produced the text – is based on a process of discussion and interpretation.

So the narrow literalist view of late modernity in the western world is alien to the text.

We are outsiders, my friend, and before we say what the text says or means, we must make every effort to get our heads round what they meant, not what we assume they mean ...
 
Base12 said:
Clearly? That is confirmation bias.
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🤣

Base12 said:
Someone told you that the First Adam and the Woman did not physically die on that day, and you believed it and never bothered to double check if you were given the correct information.
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Where are you getting your information from?

Base12 said:
Oops! Looks like Man was the first form of life! Created on the Third Day even. Jesus rose on the Third Day as well. Wow, we have a match.
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Ah ... now I get you! You're assuming the apparent contradictions between the two creation accounts in Genesis One and Two.

Suffice to say any and all apparent contradictions can be resolved.
 
Base12 said:
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
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My understanding would be, that all the time they ate from the tree of life, this would keep them alive for ever. The day they stopped eating from the tree of life, death set in, and their bodies started to decay, as our do.

When you see the state of mankind today, I don't think we are ready to live for ever. We have to change somehow.
 
Base12 said:
Yes, I can.
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No, you can't – and so far, you haven't.

Base12 said:
wHere are some examples using the 'begin the aging process and eventually die' interpretation:
Genesis 20:7
"Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine."
That obviously does not work. Strike one. Let us try another...
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Fail
The phrase says 'thou shalt surely die' – it also says 'thou and all that are thine".
Now read on. Abimelech has restored Abraham's wife:
Genesis 20:17-18
"And when Abraham prayed, God healed Abimelech and his wife, and his handmaids, and they bore children: For the Lord had closed up every womb of the house of Abimelech on account of Sara, Abraham's wife."
So the death that Abimelech and all his house would surely suffer, was that the womenfolk would be rendered barren, and the family would die out in that generation, at the end of their natural lives.

Base12 said:
1 Samuel 20:31
"For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die."
That makes no sense. Strike two.
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Fail
Does not say when David will die, only that he will die at Saul's hand.

Base12 said:
One more...
2 Kings 1:4
"Now therefore thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. And Elijah departed."
Strike three, you are out.
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Fail
King Ahaziah did indeed die of injuries he sustained from a fall. He was bed-bound, and sent messengers to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, a pagan deity of a Philistine city. This reveals Ahaziah's apostasy with regard to the God of Israel. By so doing he breaks the first commandment, which forbids the worship of other gods. Thus God sends Elijah to confront Ahaziah's idolatry and pronounce judgment – he will never arise from that bed. Elijah tells him, and departs.
No indication of the time between Elijah's message and Ahaziah's death.

So your proofs fail.
 
Base12 said:
Just an FYI for @Thomas . You obviously do not have to watch these, but Dan did a whole bunch of vids on Genesis 2:17 if you are interested in more detailed analysis...
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He's done his research, but the argument rather rests on asserting things the text itself does not assert – and then too much false dichotomy in arriving at conclusions.
 
Base12 said:
For at least a decade now, I have been searching for anyone who believes Genesis 2:17...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

So far, I have not found a single person. I seem to be the only human being who has ever existed who believes the verse. I feel like I should win some sort of prize or something. :rolleyes:

Most folks I talk to about this are astonished to hear this. The reason is because they 'think' they believe until questioned about it.

The reality is that every person on the planet, i.e., both Christians and non-Christians alike, have been conditioned, perhaps even brainwashed, to alter the text of the verse to say/mean something it does not. The bizarre part is that no one seems to realize that they are doing it. Most people get very angry and offended when confronted about it which usually ends up with me being called names, banned, censored, mocked, ridiculed treated like garbage, etc. In other words, I experience the full wrath of typical "Christian" behavior instead of hearing the truth from them.

Anyhow, Scripture is clear that we are not to take away and/or add to it, yet this is precisely what is happening.

The way in which folks alter the verse is usually narrowed down into three categories:
  1. Change the word 'day' into something non-literal (e.g., a thousand years)
  2. Change the phrase 'surely die' into something non-literal (e.g., they began to die, separation from God, spiritual death, etc.)
  3. Declare that God lied or changed his mind
Of course, basic exegesis forbids any of the above, yet no one cares. Even the so called 'scholars' break the rules. Every single one of them.

Because of this gross abuse of standard interpretation practice, many non-believers are quick to point out the immediate contradiction this imposes on the rest of the Bible, specifically with regards to Genesis 3:4...

Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

They will claim that God lied, and the Serpent told the truth, thus making the Serpent the good guy and God the bad guy. This is a terrible tragedy that has occurred, but again, no one cares. The lies continue to this very day.

Dan McClellan is someone who came really close to solving the riddle, but unfortunately fell short...


He recognizes that the verse is absolutely literal and that one must follow the rules of translation/interpretation. The part where he messed up was in his conclusion that God lied or changed his mind. This is why folks should not blindly follow and agree with a researcher, just because they call themselves a "scholar" and throw a bunch of technical buzzwords around.

Anyhow, the bottom line is that Adam and the Woman experienced exactly what God warned them would happen (and then some). The Serpent is the one who lied, as well as everyone else who has ever taught the Genesis account.
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Do you think serpents were ever able to speak to a human in human language?
 
Base12 said:
The First Adam and the Woman Ishshah were created immortal. We know this because death entered the world after they partook...
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I can accept that. I'm not so sold on the 2nd creation ofAdam and Eve, however.

I know many do ...
 
talib-al-kalim said:
Do you think serpents were ever able to speak to a human in human language?
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The biggest miracle is the creation of the universe and life. If God can create life from non life, a talking serpent would not be a big deal.
 
Thomas said:
..So the death that Abimelech and all his house would surely suffer, was that the womenfolk would be rendered barren, and the family would die out in that generation, at the end of their natural lives.
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Indeed..
I find too many people read "you will surely die", and assume a literal reading, without
taking account of ALL verses in Scripture.

eg. JW's claim only 144,000 people will go to heaven, and everybody else will "surely die". o_O

Everyone to their own, I guess .. but Jesus did not teach that. They fail to adequately
explain verses such as “there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12)
 
muhammad_isa said:
Everyone to their own, I guess .. but Jesus did not teach that. They fail to adequately
explain verses such as “there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12)
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If some know they are going to die, or are in the process of dying, there may well be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
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