Who created God?

Cino said:
I think I understand you now.

In the spirit of interfaith dialogue, I'd like to say that for me, the corrolary to God not depending on a prior cause is that this appears to be the case for the universe itself. To me, things in the world do exist by virtue of their existence. That everything is transient and subject to arising, change, and decay, does not contradict their inherent, self-apparent existence. Tongue-in-cheek, I might say that the universe does not disappear when I stop believing in it: it did a fine job of existing long before we human beings started pondering these questions, and it will continue on existing (subject to its own arising and eventual passing) for a long time after we will be gone.

I'm saying this in the spirit of open discussion of world views, not to disparage anyone elses's faith.
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The best medieval philosophers in Western Europe held that human reason is unable to resolve whether the universe is eternal or had a beginning. This seems to be the case regardless of the latest findings about the process of early expansion of the universe. A singularity at the origin of expansion could have been eternal. We may have common ground regarding these points about the universe. Is the question of the possible eternity of the universe different from existence of the universe?
 
RJM Corbet said:
But for you, effectively, it ceases to exist when you die. And if you cannot perceive it, what does anything else matter? No Cino = no universe, as far as Cino is concerned in the matter?
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No, it does not cease to exist. You had considered yourself as a drop of water but you forgot that you are but part of the ocean. What constitutes me now was a part of universe, it now is, and will continue to be a part of the universe even after I am no more alive. People place too much emphasis on individuality, much beyond its worth, ego. The universe is because I am.
 
God doesn't have a beginning or end. So he wasn't created. Has has ever existed and will ever exist. It is only normal if we can't fathom our Creator. Us understanding God would be the same as a table trying to understand the carpenter.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Who created God?
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I suppose the answer to this question lies in what one considers to be "God."

As I understanding it, man created anthropomorphic deities to understand divinity. The supreme divine, which I refer to as Nirguna Brahman, but what mystics of many religions, Abrahamic and Dharmic alike, are content to refer to as "God," is eternal. It has no beginning and no end. It is beyond time, space, and causation. Therefore, there was no entity that created it.
 
Or perhaps it is existence and non-existence. One moment, there is. The other moment, there is not. Not something that we understand today. It is a quantum world.
 
The physical universe may cycle in and out of existence, but I think the underlying existence is always there.

Does the screen not exist in the absence of a movie being projected onto it?
 
It may be more than that for all we know. The screen disappears once the film is over. Possibilities. QM is not easy to understand. There is no screen in a hologram. Existence playing hide-and-seek. :)
 
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SalixIncendium said:
The physical universe may cycle in and out of existence, but I think the underlying existence is always there.
Does the screen not exist in the absence of a movie being projected onto it?
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Perhaps the underlying existence also is fishy. In a quantum universe, everything is fishy. We may be having a similar discussion right now in another universe, or our discussion might have ended or it may have not started by now. ;)
 
muhammad_isa said:
I just wondered what people's opinions on this were .. including polytheists and atheists. :)
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I see God as an active principle in the universe, rather than a being in itself - though some would argue that the universe in itself is consious. :)

However, the idea that this is the only reality seems to go against the everyday experience that the same patterns repeat on smaller and larger scales. So we are observing just one level of reality, and when we die there is the potential to transcend to higher levels of reality where the same but different principle is repeated. I think a few traditions argue that point. :)
 
iBrian said:
I see God as an active principle in the universe, rather than a being in itself - though some would argue that the universe in itself is consious.
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Yes .. the line between the two is often blurred.

iBrian said:
..we are observing just one level of reality, and when we die there is the potential to transcend to higher levels of reality where the same but different principle is repeated. I think a few traditions argue that point.
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They do .. and the Qur'an also states that we "journey from plane to plane".
 
iBrian said:
- though some would argue that the universe in itself is consious. :)

However, the idea that this is the only reality seems to go against the everyday experience that the same patterns repeat on smaller and larger scales. So we are observing just one level of reality, and when we die there is the potential to transcend to higher levels of reality where the same but different principle is repeated. I think a few traditions argue that point. :)
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There is nothing to argue. It is the question of belief. I believe that every wave/particle in the universe is eternally alive since the time it came about and will be like that till the universe lasts. I think that it started from nothing and can go back to nothing. This is the highest level of reality and there is nothing beyond that.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
From Buddhist Scriptures

" There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. Were there not, O monks, this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, formed. – Udana 80-81."
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I'd say that this starts to make sense from a cosmological standpoint–and then stops making sense when it seems to offer the idea of an "escape from the world of the born, originated, formed."
Thinking about this, I see no reason to try to escape said world.
 
JP Bradt said:
I'd say that this starts to make sense from a cosmological standpoint–and then stops making sense when it seems to offer the idea of an "escape from the world of the born, originated, formed."
Thinking about this, I see no reason to try to escape said world.
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The escape is a birth. When the foetus has reached full term, it can no longer stay in the matrix it was formed in.

To try to remain, is certain death, this is ancient wisdom, one such example.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Regards Tony
 
JP Bradt said:
I'd say that this starts to make sense from a cosmological standpoint–and then stops making sense when it seems to offer the idea of an "escape from the world of the born, originated, formed."
Thinking about this, I see no reason to try to escape said world.
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That's normal when intoxicated by youth, health, wealth and life, blind to the truth of suffering, decay and stress.
May good householder "just" wait till then when all his assumed refuge strats to break apart and conditions for certain wellness run out.

If he'd even remembering all the pain and stress since having this time taken birth in a womb, or say just the last day, he'd quickly tried to search for an escape from birth, aging, decay.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I just wondered what people's opinions on this were .. including polytheists and atheists. :)
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Craving conditions all phenomena's birth, there aging, fault and decay, driven by not knowing, ignorance. Conditioned by ignorance do all creators, doer, arise, come into being, decay. Blind they wander on, a starting point isn't imaging-able.
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Craving conditions all phenomena's birth, there aging, fault and decay, driven by not knowing, ignorance. Conditioned by ignorance do all creators, doer, arise, come into being, decay. Blind they wander on, a starting point isn't imaging-able.
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So then, how about instead of setting plans to act now to achieve a future ideal, we do what we want in the now genuinely? Not because we think we should but really don't want and do what we want now without letting fear of future repercussions of loss/gain decide out action. Just realize in the now that whatever the uncertain future may form as, we can deal with it when it becomes the now.
 
" There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. Were there not, O monks, this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, formed. – Udana 80-81."
JP Bradt said:
I'd say that this starts to make sense from a cosmological standpoint–and then stops making sense when it seems to offer the idea of an "escape from the world of the born, originated, formed."
Thinking about this, I see no reason to try to escape said world.
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Dear friend, IMHO, Buddha was not wrong.
There is a world of Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed (Absolute Reality), and there is this world of the born, originated, seemingly created, with form (Perceived Reality).
Enlightenment is the journey from the Perceived Reality to realization of the Absolute Reality.
 
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Vasu Devan said:
So then, how about instead of setting plans to act now to achieve a future ideal, we do what we want in the now genuinely? Not because we think we should but really don't want and do what we want now without letting fear of future repercussions of loss/gain decide out action. Just realize in the now that whatever the uncertain future may form as, we can deal with it when it becomes the now.
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This is because the journey of this life is not about self. There are certain aspects where we need to be self serving, but this is only in order to be a servant to all humanity, starting with family, friends and community.

The act of being selfless, in serving all others in virtue and moral, binds the future to now, and that becomes the genuine way of life. We start to see how selfish we really were and how true happiness is in serving others.

All this requires a power greater than our self, this is why Jesus offered the chance for us to be Born Again, born from the nature of the material animal self, into the Holy Spirit that enables us to sacrifice our self serving desires to becomes servants of humanity.

There is no greater reward than to loose one's self in the eternity of selfless service.

That is life, our struggles between good (selfless service to others) and evil (selfish desire). When we reach towards selflessness, the pursuit of wealth and prosperity has meaning and is not blameworthy, as we are using those gains in serving others.

In a world where good is our choice, no one will be without the basic necessities of life, shelter, water, food and work.

In a world where self serving goals are pursued, well that world is now.

Regards Tony
 
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