Projection

[Northstar]

We are all projecting and living in a world where everyone is sleeping. We sleep, dream, wake up go to work and then you spend some time with your girlfriend or friends or watch something for example on netflix. And then it repeats. You have to wake up so you are able to see behind the projection. Angels for a lack of a different word are watching us and they know what everyone is doing and thinking and how well you are. If you have woken up you will notice something odd. Look what most people in this world want. They want to be famous and to be rich etc. These are the wrong things to covet. You have to try to stand up for justice, sacrifice something out of neighbourly love because of the rule of cause and effect.
The darkness is also spreading, look at the condition of the world we live in and how people with much money and also politicians are changing the world so it is becoming a darker place. A battle is going on on earth and many who think they are good are evil and many who think they are evil are good.
Dont sleep but try to wake up!

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

The King of Death​

We live like a chicken who doesn't know what's going on. In the morning it takes its baby chicks out to scratch for food. In the evening, it goes back to sleep in the coop. The next morning it goes out to look for food again. Its owner scatters rice for it to eat every day, but it doesn't know why its owner is feeding it. The chicken and its owner are thinking in very different ways.

The owner is thinking, “How much does the chicken weigh?” The chicken, though, is engrossed in the food. When the owner picks it up to heft its weight, it thinks the owner is showing affection.

We too don't know what's going on: where we come from, how many more years we'll live, where we'll go, who will take us there. We don't know this at all.

The King of Death is like the owner of the chicken. We don't know when he'll catch up with us, for we're engrossed — engrossed in sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and ideas. We have no sense that we're growing older. We have no sense of enough.

It's certain seldom that one might see the dangers in the world, good householder, but it's not enough to just realice the faults. It's extreme more seldom that someone sees and declares also the cause, the ending, and the path out of the wheel.

 

[otherbrother]

We are all projecting and living in a world where everyone is sleeping. We sleep, dream, wake up go to work and then you spend some time with your girlfriend or friends or watch something for example on netflix. And then it repeats. You have to wake up so you are able to see behind the projection. Angels for a lack of a different word are watching us and they know what everyone is doing and thinking and how well you are. If you have woken up you will notice something odd. Look what most people in this world want. They want to be famous and to be rich etc. These are the wrong things to covet. You have to try to stand up for justice, sacrifice something out of neighbourly love because of the rule of cause and effect.
The darkness is also spreading, look at the condition of the world we live in and how people with much money and also politicians are changing the world so it is becoming a darker place. A battle is going on on earth and many who think they are good are evil and many who think they are evil are good.
Dont sleep but try to wake up!

Totally agree. The Great Slumbering that one of the German Idealists (Schiller, I think) talked about. Yes we are asleep but possess the potential to be lucid within the “dream” we think of as being reality.
If your title of this thread had referred to how we also project onto “God,” I would have said this post is the most important of any ever posted in this forum, but nonetheless your line of thought is VERY important.
Regarding this discussion as it is, I’m thinking of “heat” vs “light” in relation to enlightenment. We seem to need the “heat” (or “school of hard knocks”) of needless (but karmically earned) suffering to help us wake up to what’s really important. We have become such a doing world that we have grossly neglected being (as in “I am that I am”, go and be likewise), and even our love relationships have suffered. Here in the USA government is erroneously viewed as a business, when in fact it is a RELATIONSHIP. But since our imbalance involving too much doing and not enough being has eroded our integrity, this potential loving relationship (our perfect union, “government” that resembles one body in Christ) our relationship called government is dysfunctional, up for sell to the highest bidder. It’s true that money can’t buy you love, but we keep trying to buy a love that’s nowhere near as good as the wholeness and true freedom of God’s love and our loving embrace of I-am-ness.
The good news is that even as we speak love has managed to survive and will probably help us get back to the beautiful beingness and Godliness we currently hunger for. Love helps actualize our authentic being. It is an antidote to our brokenness. Love will probably eventually win over the cold meanness USA is experiencing. And this will help us wake up to what’s most important in life.

 

[Craz]

@otherbrother
Your post above reminded me of the words of the song "Love Song"

 

[otherbrother]

Very good. Yes, what better reward and consolation prize for our mission on earth than love? But the neutral mind acceptance of being-in-the-world can be itself an open door to love. Without accepting and embracing one’s own being, love has a less secure foundation upon which to flourish.
So, love could get us back on track, but we will also need to improve on beingness if we are to maintain and develop love in the midst of earthly hardship.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

Yes, love, craving, is what keeps beings on dreaming on...

 

[otherbrother]

Yes, love, craving, is what keeps beings on dreaming on...

I consistently dream three things in terms of settlings: prison, school, psychology office/center. Often the three are integrated, a psychology office in a prison, a school in a prison (both of which do exist in real life).
The prison theme seems awfully strong and highly frequent and consistent.
My main theory is that the container called the human body makes the spirit feel fenced in or imprisoned. The spirit (or spirited imagination?) flies freely about during dream time and then must accept the limits of physical reality as it either physically reenters the body, or mentally realigns with physical reality. “No more dreaming. Time to get down to business.”
But, as you say, the possibility of love in the physical realm and physical state motivates the spirit (or imagination) to accept the imprisonment or illusion (in terms of Ultimate Reality). Imprisonment may represent limitations (I’m lucky if, at the ripe old age of 70, I can muster a 2 inch vertical leap! And though I love my wife dearly and consistently, we have bad arguments/fights occasionally.).
Illusionism may represent the relative un-truth of life on the physical surface, as compared to an interconnected, convergent, deeper Reality.
Interesting that the regular human dream seems to us an illusion upon awakening. What if our wake state is a dream compared to the enlightenment of a deeper, more “spiritual,” perspective? Anthropomorphically speaking, our reality could be God’s dream. Ironic that just maybe the looseness of our dream illusions align better with a deeper, entangled, reality. Dreams may be more real (in some important ways at least) than “reality!”

 

[otherbrother]

Love helps actualize our authentic being. It is an antidote to our brokenness.

While I stand by that statement wholeheartedly, I also must point out that human love, as joyful as it may be, is anything but peaceful. Love needs peace as much as brokenness (from attachment, being “nailed to” or crucified) needs love. Even as a Christian raised on the emphasis of love, I see great/wise benefit of Buddhism’s emphasis on non attachment and neutral mind nonjudgmental-ness (mindfulness?).
The heart-fullness of standard Christianity is supported by the mindfulness of (at least the Zen branch) of Buddhism. And the energy awareness of Hinduism ain’t too shabby either. Especially if Christians are trying to use the Holy “Spirit!” Probably many religions can supplement Christianity and each other.
Isn’t this a major contribution of “Global New Thought?” Has Global New Thought come and gone? Or is it something we should be seriously discussing in this forum? I think it seeks to show the gifts of each religion, what each “brings to the (spiritual, connectiveness, wholeness) table.”

 

[otherbrother]

While I stand by that statement wholeheartedly, I also must point out that human love, as joyful as it may be, is anything but peaceful. Love needs peace as much as brokenness (from attachment, being “nailed to” or crucified) needs love. Even as a Christian raised on the emphasis of love, I see great/wise benefit of Buddhism’s emphasis on non attachment and neutral mind nonjudgmental-ness (mindfulness?).
The heart-fullness of standard Christianity is supported by the mindfulness of (at least the Zen branch) of Buddhism. And the energy awareness of Hinduism ain’t too shabby either. Especially if Christians are trying to use the Holy “Spirit!” Probably many religions can supplement Christianity and each other.
Isn’t this a major contribution of “Global New Thought?” Has Global New Thought come and gone? Or is it something we should be seriously discussing in this forum? I think it seeks to show the gifts of each religion, what each “brings to the (spiritual, connectiveness, wholeness) table.”

When I asked Open A.I. if Global New Thought was still popular:
Yes, the core ideas of New Thought remain popular
, though often secularized within the "self-help" movement rather than explicitly identified as New Thought. While formal New Thought denominations exist and continue to exist, their principles have been popularized and diluted into mainstream culture through concepts like positive thinking, the Law of Attraction, and visualization. The overall trend of people becoming "spiritual but not religious" further fuels the popularity of these ideas, even as traditional religious affiliation declines.

• Secular self-help: Many contemporary self-help gurus, such as Tony Robbins and Louise Hay, teach principles directly derived from New Thought without using the religious label.
• Popular culture: Concepts like the Law of Attraction, which originated in New Thought, are widely recognized thanks to books and films like The Secret.
• • Decline in organized religion: The growing trend of people identifying as "spiritual but not religious" creates a larger audience for New Thought's ideas, which emphasize personal spiritual power over traditional religious dogma.
  • Cultural influence: The influence is widespread, and its principles can be found in various forms of motivational literature and self-help, making it a pervasive, though often unrecognized, part of modern culture.
  • Formal organizations: Formal New Thought organizations, like the Association for Global New Thought, continue to exist and operate, though their broader recognition may be limited compared to the secularized versions of their ideas.

 

[wil]

Projecting...

If it is to be it is up to me...

Breathe

Love

Be

.

 

[Thomas]

Even as a Christian raised on the emphasis of love ...

Unhappily, the world being the way it is, I would receive with caution the 'emphasis of love', until I had a clear picture of how that 'love' is defined.

As @Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu points out, what we constitute as 'love' is too often, on the one hand, something overly romantic, and on the other, simply a craving, the product of unregulated and ill-disciplined passions and appetites – very much the case of love-with-requirement.

(Romance derives from the Latin Romanus meaning 'Roman', which via the Old French became a term to distinguish between 'common' or 'vernacular Latin' as opposed to 'legal' Latin of the courts. During the Middle Ages, popular stories written in the Romance languages (like French) were called "romances," and these tales often featured love, adventure, heroic knights, fair maidens, etc., etc. As a result, "romantic" became an adjective describing these qualities.)

... I see great/wise benefit of Buddhism’s emphasis on non attachment and neutral mind nonjudgmental-ness (mindfulness?).

Did no-one point out the Christian emphasis on the same? It's there throughout:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Matthew 7:1)
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24)
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matthew 19:21)

Likewise, Compassion is the Buddhist correlate of love; compassion (karuna), perhaps born out of loving-kindness (metta).

The heart-fullness of standard Christianity is supported by the mindfulness of (at least the Zen branch) of Buddhism.

In my experience it's quite often the case that when one sees an aspect in one tradition benefitting from an aspect of another, it's because one's missed that aspect in the tradition, not because it's absent.

Having said that, there are different emphases across the traditions, but none can be said to be deficient with regard to another.

Especially if Christians are trying to use the Holy “Spirit!”

LOL, the Holy Spirit is not a commodity to be used, a utility to be employed ...

Probably many religions can supplement Christianity and each other.

Well there's much to be said by 'compare and contrast' and that is where I personally think the true value lies – to see things in a different light, as it were – but the idea of one religion supplementing another simply shows a non-understanding of the religion supposedly in need of supplement.

Isn’t this a major contribution of “Global New Thought?”

No.

Global New Thought is just the same ideas repacked in a more commercialised and self-serving manner. It's rather like secularism picking the (perceived) 'good bits' from the bones of the religion, without having to undergo all that tiresome old stuff about virtue and self-discipline.

 

[Thomas]

The heart-fullness of standard Christianity ...

I don't know where this idea comes from, but I have no sense of how it is 'standard' by any measure?

"Let nothing be done through contention, neither by vain glory: but in humility, let each esteem others better than themselves: Each one not considering the things that are their own, but those that are others'. For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of humanity, and in habit found as a man. He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross."
(Philippians 2:3-8)

The key term in the above text is emptied – the Greek is κένωσις (kénōsis), literally  'the act of emptying'.

Kenosis is a fundamental key to the spiritual life – without it the door remains locked.

Christianity is self-emptying. Only that way can true metanoia, true transformation ('change of heart'), take place.

I kept that last verse, about the cross, because a condition of the spiritual life:
"And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Mark 8:34, Matthew 16:24, Luke 9:23)

 

[wil]

Global New Thought is just the same ideas repacked in a more commercialised and self-serving manner. It's rather like secularism picking the (perceived) 'good bits' from the bones of the religion, without having to undergo all that tiresome old stuff about virtue and self-discipline.

Where do you read virtue and self discipline are not contained in New Thought? (Global is somewhat as implied commercialization of a belief, not unlike any denomination or sect of religion)

And yeah, old reunderstood, repackaged again not unlike any divide which creates a new sect.

Of course we pick the good bits, again not unlike...

As religion evolves what the apologetics cant find a way to hold on to, smdespite advancements in science, discoveries in archeology which prove ancient mythology false... we see it as a choice...either take out the old thought or find a use to keep it as allegory or simply the misunderstanding that got us here.

 

[Thomas]

Where do you read virtue and self discipline are not contained in New Thought?

Oh, I'm sure they are ... it's to what end they are put to work that I would think marks a distinction.

(Global is somewhat as implied commercialization of a belief, not unlike any denomination or sect of religion)

Oh, Lordy! You do tend to offer erroneous generalisations. Before you've criticised religions – or mine specifically – for not getting with the zeitgeist!

I'd say the constant values of the religions are the transcendent ones. Roman Catholicism and the various Orthodox traditions tend to resist the cultural trend, because of a tendency to be transient and ephemeral.

Secularism continually seeks to find that which is attractive in religion and commercialise and commodify it – such as the boom in 'yoga' and 'mindfulness meditation', practices divorced from their spiritual roots and heritage. Nothing wrong with that, as long as one is aware that one is following a secular pursuit and not some easily-accessible spirituality.

And, as David Bentley Hart points out, the West, and America specifically, is the marketplace for 'boutique spiritualities'.

And yeah, old reunderstood, repackaged again not unlike any divide which creates a new sect.

Again, that is an American speciality – take something and repackage it in a way that tickles consumer aspiration – that's why, of all the 1,000s of Christian denominations, by far and away the vast majority come from America. Each one looking to establish its own brand and USP.

Of course we pick the good bits, again not unlike...

LOL, actually, often the tendency is towards the 'low hanging fruit' – the bits with the easiest commercial application and least resistance.

As religion evolves what the apologetics cant find a way to hold on to, smdespite advancements in science ...

Oh. c'mon with the flawed stereotypes! Religious minds were behind some of the most significant scientific advances, in cosmology and genetics, for example.

... discoveries in archeology which prove ancient mythology false...

Materially false, and thereby miss the point, which the ancients understood (and the materialist doesn't), that mythologies convey transcendent truths in an accessible narrative.

... we see it as a choice...either take out the old thought or find a use to keep it as allegory or simply the misunderstanding that got us here.

That assumes an understanding to begin with ... and a tendency to allegorise challenging and potentially transformative truths away to abstractions.

It also assumes, quite erroneously, that the philosophies of the ancient religions have, on the one hand, nothing new to offer and have 'sat on their hands' as it were, on the other. (One could reasonably argue that 'New Thought' is stuck with a fabric of outmoded ideologies of the 18th century.)

The most successful sociocultural movements in a consumer-society are the ones with the easiest cultural up-take, so they tend to be somewhat romantic, self-affirming and anodyne.

 

[Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu]

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

People like romantic suggestions...
Dreams related to sensual joy, even if heavenly, stay just dreams. Why? Because such joy isn't lasting, real, and as conditioned, unease.

How one remembers, so one thinks/dreams. Good to remember aging sickness decay of what ever conditioned, in the sense sphere.

Holding real for unreal, unreal for real: dreaming goes on. It's wise to project unconditioned release, which of course requires right investigation of "reality", good Brahman.

Since people generally tend to project the desires into teachings, use them for their romanticism, maybe a useful read to get more disenchanted of what is sold as fraud globally:

Buddhist Romanticism​

Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu
Published September 26, 2015

An in-depth study of the pervasive influence of early Romantic thought in shaping the way Buddhism is taught in the West, and of the practical consequences of following the Romantics rather than the Buddha in approaching the problem of suffering and stress.

Read online

 

[otherbrother]

Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Matthew 7:1)
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (M

Yes, it’s certainly in there. Also, “I and the Father are one” is probably about non-dual thinking/experiencing, but love approximating Agape love is emphasized more in church, Love one another. I suppose all religions touch on all or most spiritual truths. It’s just that each probably leans a certain way. And there can be a big difference between religious texts and what churches, synagogues, ashrams, etc. focus on.

 

[wil]

Before you've criticised religions – or mine specifically – for not getting with the zeitgeist!

I believe I often criticize the implementation of "your" religion as perverted by some of the.churches on this side of the pond I have had personal encountered. Not critisizing

erroneous generalisations.

But specific and real issues.

One could reasonably argue that 'New Thought' is stuck with a fabric of outmoded ideologies of the 18th century

ABSOLUTELY! Not updating with new information and realization is the realm of a stagnant pond.

the philosophies of the ancient religions have, on the one hand, nothing new to offer

I have repeated often, my issue is when we find new info religions dont like to add a footnote and admit the original text is not historical, logical, factual or accurate...just the best info those authors had at the time...be it earth centric 6000 year old universe or whatever.

Materially false, and thereby miss the point, which the ancients understood (and the materialist doesn't), that mythologies convey transcendent truths in an accessible narrative.

Lol...I simply seperate the two... I have utmost appreciation for myth and allegory...just smh when I am expected to believe they are divine scripture that actually happened.

I realize when folks sailed the sea and reinvented religion it is vastly different than what you have studied...but it is the land I am immersed in...and the results in our society are blatantly obvious right now.... ill go back into my corner before I violate the new rules round these parts.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I realize when folks sailed the sea and reinvented religion it is vastly different than what you have studied...but it is the land I am immersed in...and the results in our society are blatantly obvious right now.... ill go back into my corner before I violate the new rules round these parts.

..as long as you don't criticise Israel .. as that is apparently anti-semetic.

I wonder if the subject of anti-semetism is one of politics or religion?
Ummm, I guess it's both.

 

[wil]

..as long as you don't criticise Israel .. as that is apparently anti-semetic.

I wonder if the subject of anti-semetism is one of politics or religion?
Ummm, I guess it's both.

There is criticizing israeli's, Israel, Judaism and zionism...to me 4 different things...of course your reasons for criticizing of any of them could be anti-semetic.

As i see it when we get into this areas Knee-jerk reactions are common on both sides from early family indoctrination....definitely all dicey.

 

[Thomas]

A later edit:

I believe I often criticize the implementation of "your" religion as perverted by some of the.churches on this side of the pond I have had personal encountered. Not critisizing

Yeah ... I know ... sadly the worst are invariably the noisiest. The good just quietly get on with it, unobserved and unmentioned.

Apart from the noise, some of the most breath-taking 'new thought' theological insights are coming out of the US. My go-to references of late are nearly all American.

ABSOLUTELY! Not updating with new information and realization is the realm of a stagnant pond.

How up-to-date are you with contemporary Christian scholarship?

I have repeated often, my issue is when we find new info religions dont like to add a footnote and admit the original text is not historical, logical, factual or accurate...just the best info those authors had at the time...be it earth centric 6000 year old universe or whatever.

Yet there is a vast body of text-criticism, of which you're seemingly unaware? On the other hand, you'd probably think creation-incarnation ideas coming out from Jordan Daniel Wood are so out-there as to be illogical or what have you.

The Young Earth crowd are particularly American. Flat-Earthers are. The more 'woo-hoo' Intelligent Design' people are. I just don't regard everybody as associated with those ideas.

Lol...I simply seperate the two... I have utmost appreciation for myth and allegory...jus

As I've said before, I think we see vastly different things when we say 'myth', 'allegory, and so on.

I realize when folks sailed the sea and reinvented religion it is vastly different than what you have studied...but it is the land I am immersed in...and the results in our society are blatantly obvious right now.... ill go back into my corner before I violate the new rules round these parts.

But that's not the fault of religion per se, and it's wrong to place the blame there. The same religions exist elsewhere in the world, and the results are not the same.

I think this is a self-inflicted condition, which Europe in its history wisely avoided. But I do genuinely sympathise with you.