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Ok, so bill it is. Hi Bill! From what you say about your abused women case I can see a real reason to not want to deal with it. I don't know how real it seems to you, maybe quite something for the work you're doing, but I'm not sure I could deal with that. And if I had gone through that...

By crikey! That's some long post! Makes for good reading. I can understand now where you're coming from. I especially like the reference you made to christian groups, as I can really relate to the differences there. So thanks for the good explanation. :)

I heard this and it's great news! I mean, how many times has this gone to the vote already and *still* not become law? It's ridiculous that bloodsports are banned for all the English classes except the upper class! Too right that's it's being addressed at last and in finality.

Polycarp, have you thought of asking brian to put up your ideas on his articles section? Maybe I'm being presumptuous but I thought it could be a good place to display it.

I guess that's a very real part of what I'm asking.

Thank you for giving an interesting reply. I still just don't get why you don't just call yourself neopagan? Somehow saying that wicca has become unrelated to Gardner sounds like people calling themselves Christians without believing in Jesus! Not that the two are on equal footing at all. But...

I don;t believe in Hell either. I may not be sure about a lot of things that I can or cannot believe in but this is one thing that makes *no* sense to me. Condemning billions of people for torture sounds more like fundamentalist wish-fulfillment at work.

Brian, I think WHKeith addressed this issue on another topic, where he said that he wasn't interested in driving his cattle between two fires but looked to Wiccan principles as a guide to spiritual principles since forgotten, such as earth mother/goddess relations. I think what he was trying to...

Hey, who wouldn't like to be surrounded by mountain lakes and lush forests? But the grass is always greener on the other side. It's all about accepting what you have, isn't it?

So this is back to the whole idea of 'psychological' tools, is it, and that these psychological tools can never reveal an objective purpose, just personal preference?

What would the ramifications be if Matthew were 'Q' if any?

One problem with the fundy approach is that if Jesus was such an obvious fulfillment of Jewish Prophecy then why wasn't Jesus accepted by the Jews? If it were that convincing an argument in the first place the early Christians wouldn't have had to turn to the Gentiles for converts..

How would you even know what was real and not through regressive experience? That would be my big concern.

As a sort of agnostic rationalist my big problem is that the spiritual is not rational, and the rational is not spiritual. That's why I play straight and admit I don't know.

WHKeith, is there any particular reason why you call yourself 'Wiccan' instead of 'Neo-Pagan' first? I just don't see the sense of using the title 'Wicca' unless one is following Gardner, really.

It's all a big fight down there. You keep us informed of the outcome. Sure I won't miss it but just in case.

Uh, mammals definitely get my vote. But I've not thought properly about the other animals. Are we talking birds and reptiles and even the insects as well?

Sounds the same as here in the South.

I guess the birth part sticks out for me with being a woman and all. Or maybe its because that first moment of life is so important for anyone. If there were no angels and shepherds and music that would make the whole event somehow specially humbling, as I guess any birth is.

sorry,,,,I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just kinda figured it related to the topic. You know, Jesus coming back in a way unexpected. But hey if I did wrong you can take it out.