Out of the Box
High-priest
Can anyone explain what's Sufi Islam and how it relates to regular Islam and the Qur'An?
Sufi Islam
- Thread starter Out of the Box
- Start date
Hi,
Try these links
http://seekeraftertruth.com/2006/03/william-chittick-sufism-a-short-introduction/
The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam
Tasawwuf/Sufism in Islam by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.
Threshold Web Site Directory
On a side note, there are muslims (who call themselves salafis), who for some reasons have a disdain for Sufis. At the same time, there are syncretic sufis who do stuff that clearly takes them outside the domains of Islam. There are extremists in every group, & Islam is no exception.
Out of the Box
High-priest
B
Bishadi
Guest
great question
sufis have additional interpretations that must be followed along with Quran.
almost like torah combined with talmut in some forms of judaism
the nuts and bolts of each line item acceptance will vary from the culture, environment, etc. of the people.
my personal view is the sufi are closer to the zoraster roots of islam in which the removing the 'self' ... to the compliance with god ... as a 'way of life'.
hence... maintaining shariah
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
Torah is combined with talmud in *all* forms of judaism apart from karaism (all 5000 of them!) and even they have their own interpretative law set.
and it's talmuD with a D. a D. or should i call you bishati?
b'shalom
bananabrain
and it's talmuD with a D. a D. or should i call you bishati?
b'shalom
bananabrain
B
Bishadi
Guest
ahhhhhhhhhhhh.... did the banana get mad and remove my post................ when the primary comment was asking not to insult me?
Did you mention how many variation of talmut there are?
Hesronot Shas, Gemara... etc......
It seems the bias is so deep, that when someone who knows a little more about the collective of religions, that it really bugs you.......
ahhhhhhhhhhh......
roll over bananbrain, there's a new sheriff in town!
dailogue is the best
New member
peace be upon you, Out of the Box,
The essence of Sufism is Ihsan, and what is ihsan? It is one of the highest degrees of Islam. The following hadith will shed more light about the nature of Ihsan, and hence sufism:
From 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, there is that he said, "While we were sitting with the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless with him and grant him peace, one day a man came up to us whose clothes were extremely white, whose hair was extremely black, upon whom traces of travelling could not be seen, and whom none of us knew, until he sat down close to the Prophet, may Allah bless with him and grant him peace, so that he rested his knees upon his knees and placed his two hands upon his thighs and said, 'Muhammad, tell me about Islam.' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless with him and grant him peace, said, 'Islam is that you witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and you establish the prayer, and you give the Zakat, and you fast Ramadan, and you perform the hajj of the House if you are able to take a way to it.' He said, 'You have told the truth,' and we were amazed at him asking him and [then] telling him that he told the truth. He said, 'Tell me about iman.' He said, 'That you affirm Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day, and that you affirm the Decree, the good of it and the bad of it.' He said, 'You have told the truth.' He said, 'Tell me about ihsan.' He said, 'That you worship Allah as if you see Him, for if you don't see Him then truly He sees you.' He said, 'Tell me about the Hour.' He said, 'The one asked about it knows no more than the one asking.' He said, 'Then tell me about its tokens.' He said, 'That the female slave should give birth to her mistress, and you see poor, naked, barefoot shepherds of sheep and goats competing in making tall buildings.' He went away, and I remained some time. Then he asked, 'Umar, do you know who the questioner was?' I said, 'Allah and His Messenger know best.' He said, 'He was Jibril who came to you to teach you your deen'." Muslim (8) narrated it.
So, from this hadith we know that the nature and the core of sufism is ihsan which is the highest degree of Islam. And as we have witnessed from the hadith that ihsan simply means the pure faithfulness and devotion to the only one God. Any work you do should be devouted to God for we should always bear in mind that God knows the inner and the outer, the hidden and the displayed. Accordingly, sufis do their best to achieve that heigest degree of Islam through cleansing and cleaning their egos from all the negative impulses, and filling in with positive morals and atittudes, seeking the pleasure of one destination: God.
Hence, Out of the Box, Sufi Islam is a part and a parcel of the Quran and the teaching of the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. It is not enough to practice the teaching of Islam without the spirit of it, which is ihsan. Look deeply at this hadith and how the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him defined bankruptcy:
The Prophet once asked his companions: "Do you know who is the Bankrupt?" The companions said: a bankrupt man among us is the one who has neither dirham (currency) with him nor wealth.
The Prophet said: The bankrupt of my Ummah is he who would come at the Day of judgment with prayers, and fasting and Zakah; but who had offended one person , slandered another, unlawfully consumed the wealth of another person, shed the blood of this person and beat that person.
Each one of these people would be given some of the wrongdoer’s good deeds. If his good deeds fall short of settling the account, then their sins will be taken from their account and entered into his account and he would be thrown in the Hell Fire"
The sufi's I know are more interfaith than the Muslims I know.
Right or wrong I perceive them as the mystical/metaphysical wing of Islam...
Right or wrong I perceive them as the mystical/metaphysical wing of Islam...
Janz
What's Amatta U
I have been studying with a member of the Sufi Order International which is a more Universal Vision brought to the West from India by Hazrat Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan, who founded the “Sufi Order in the West” in 1910. Thus, the ancient wisdom derived from the rich spiritual traditions of the East is merged with the attitude of the West in its tradition of logic and technology, in order to bring about the true union of the human family. Here is a link:[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]
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SOI : Reference Library : Ten Sufi Thoughts
I find the practice of this order to be one of true universal worship and interfaith connectedness. Plus they stress a personal transformation through spiritual practices given to the initiate by a spiritual guide from their Esoteric School. Yes, Sufism as practiced by the SOI is mystical Islam but they also believe that the purpose of life is not fulfilled by realization alone. The sense of sympathy and responsibility toward all life is expressed by the initiate in her/his contribution toward improving the conditions of life. Individuals, Sufi centers, and communities have all found ways to concretize through service the ideals to which they aspire. Schools, food banks, counseling, birthing and health clinics, prison book funds, to say nothing of the Hope Project in Delhi, are but a few of the avenues through which lives have been enriched.
Here is a sample of the teachings of Pir-O-Murshid Hazrat Inayat Khan:
The greatest principle of Sufism is: Ishq Allah Mabud Allah. [literally God is Love, God is Beloved; poetically expressed as God is Love, Lover, and Beloved]
When Ahad, the only Being, became conscious of his Wahdat, only existence, through His own consciousness, then His predisposition of love made Him project Himself to establish His dual aspect, that He might be able to love someone. This made God the lover, and manifestation the beloved; the next inversion makes manifestation the lover, and God the beloved. This force of love has been working through several evolutions and involutions, which end in man who is the ultimate aim of God. The dual aspect of God is significant in Zat and Sifat, in spirit and matter, and in the mineral, vegetable, animal, and human kingdoms, wherein the two sexes, male and female, are clearly represented. The dual aspect of God is symbolized by each form of this wonderful world. This whole universe, internally and externally, is governed by the force of love, which is sometimes the cause and sometimes the effect. The producer and the product are one, and that One is nothing but love.
On-Line Texts
[/FONT]
SOI : Reference Library : Ten Sufi Thoughts
I find the practice of this order to be one of true universal worship and interfaith connectedness. Plus they stress a personal transformation through spiritual practices given to the initiate by a spiritual guide from their Esoteric School. Yes, Sufism as practiced by the SOI is mystical Islam but they also believe that the purpose of life is not fulfilled by realization alone. The sense of sympathy and responsibility toward all life is expressed by the initiate in her/his contribution toward improving the conditions of life. Individuals, Sufi centers, and communities have all found ways to concretize through service the ideals to which they aspire. Schools, food banks, counseling, birthing and health clinics, prison book funds, to say nothing of the Hope Project in Delhi, are but a few of the avenues through which lives have been enriched.
Here is a sample of the teachings of Pir-O-Murshid Hazrat Inayat Khan:
The greatest principle of Sufism is: Ishq Allah Mabud Allah. [literally God is Love, God is Beloved; poetically expressed as God is Love, Lover, and Beloved]
When Ahad, the only Being, became conscious of his Wahdat, only existence, through His own consciousness, then His predisposition of love made Him project Himself to establish His dual aspect, that He might be able to love someone. This made God the lover, and manifestation the beloved; the next inversion makes manifestation the lover, and God the beloved. This force of love has been working through several evolutions and involutions, which end in man who is the ultimate aim of God. The dual aspect of God is significant in Zat and Sifat, in spirit and matter, and in the mineral, vegetable, animal, and human kingdoms, wherein the two sexes, male and female, are clearly represented. The dual aspect of God is symbolized by each form of this wonderful world. This whole universe, internally and externally, is governed by the force of love, which is sometimes the cause and sometimes the effect. The producer and the product are one, and that One is nothing but love.
A church, a temple or a Kaba stone,
Quran or Bible or a martyr's bone,
All these and more my heart can tolerate,
Since my religion now is Love alone.
~~Abul Ala al-Maari
Sufis take the course of love and devotion to accomplish their highest aim, because it is love which has brought man from the world of unity to the world of variety, and the same force can take him back again to the world of unity from that of variety.Quran or Bible or a martyr's bone,
All these and more my heart can tolerate,
Since my religion now is Love alone.
~~Abul Ala al-Maari
Love is the reduction of the universe to the single being,
and the expansion of a single being, even to God .
~~Balzac
For more see:and the expansion of a single being, even to God .
~~Balzac
On-Line Texts
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
no, i don't use moderator status to win arguments, especially with people who can't write a coherent english sentence. but if you're going to divert the thread off course, then it may need to be split or moved elsewhere.Bishati said:
OK, now you're just doing it to annoy me. that's mature. ok, guys, sorry for the thread hijack, but let's just sort this out before any more misinformation can be spread:
hesronot shas: this is not a "variation" of the talmud, it's a collection of bits that were removed during the middle ages by christian censors which were then compiled as a book so that people could read the whole thing without getting into trouble for possessing banned materials.
shas: an acrostic of the initials of "SHisha Sedarim", meaning "six orders". the talmud, properly understood, is a work comprising the six orders of the talmud.
talmud: this is the major work of rabbinic judaism and of the Oral Torah, comprising the mishnah and the analytical commentary on it, known as gemara. there are two versions of the talmud, the babylonian (bavli) and jerusalem talmud (yerushalmi) these cover similar territory albeit there is more coverage of agricultural laws in the yerushalmi. where they are in disagreement, the bavli is more authoritative. all forms of judaism are in agreement on this, also that it is spelt with a "D".
bishadi's comment, therefore, is misleading and misinformed, as per usual.
for those who are interested in a real discussion:
Oral Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mishnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gemara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
i will happily discuss this stuff over on the judaism board with anyone who wants to discuss it in a productive fashion, ie not by insinuation, misinformation and outright gobbledigook.
what bugs me is that you don't know anything about judaism, yet you insist you are some sort of prophet. it seems from your intervention in other threads that this is a bit of a theme with you.
the only sheriff round here is i, brian - and he's watching. we've already had to remove that death threat you put on my page, bishadi. i'm amazed you haven't been banned yet after the way you carry on.
b'shalom
bananabrain
Amica
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Hello--
To my understanding Sufis could be described as Muslim Mystics. They still pray like the rest of the Muslim groups, but go a step further where they do a lot of dhikr (remembrance of Allah Almighty) by calling out His Names/Attributes. A lot of times, they may sway or dance, believing that the more they repeat dhikr they will eventually experience a form of higher consciousness, a nirvana as it might be called in some cultures or accessing the Divine presence. While most Muslim groups focus on the religious ethiquette/laws, Sufis--as it is my understanding--cultivate the spiritual aspect of what Islaam has to provide. I am sure you can find some books about Sufism. Some Muslims consider it to be an innovation, or a sect.
To my understanding Sufis could be described as Muslim Mystics. They still pray like the rest of the Muslim groups, but go a step further where they do a lot of dhikr (remembrance of Allah Almighty) by calling out His Names/Attributes. A lot of times, they may sway or dance, believing that the more they repeat dhikr they will eventually experience a form of higher consciousness, a nirvana as it might be called in some cultures or accessing the Divine presence. While most Muslim groups focus on the religious ethiquette/laws, Sufis--as it is my understanding--cultivate the spiritual aspect of what Islaam has to provide. I am sure you can find some books about Sufism. Some Muslims consider it to be an innovation, or a sect.
Netti-Netti
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Yes. Also, there's tons of Sufi literature online.