cross cultural collective prayer

Sancho

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Many believe that having several people praying for the same goals has great power.

Does it matter if different people praying for the same goals think of the god they are praying to differently?

For anyone interested in uniting in prayer in this way, what should we pray for?

Is there any point in praying for such global goals as world peace, spiritual unity, or for every child to be properly fed?

My own benefits from prayer have come through praying for psychological changes, such as repenting of feeling inferior and hoping for confidence. Can we change the psychologies of our cultures through prayer?

How can we make the world better through collective prayer?
 
Many believe that having several people praying for the same goals has great power.

Many want to believe that prayer has power.

I have yet to see convincing evidence of it.

At least it keeps some people off the streets.

So it's not completely ineffective.
 
Yeah Im not too sure on the power of prayer to be honest, I pray everynight before I go to sleep I know God can hear me, but what difference does it make if you ask for something cause the all seeing and all knowing should be able to see and know that you require it anyway. A good disipline though, keeps your prioritys focused for sure, I always ask for health and for others.
 
Many believe that having several people praying for the same goals has great power.

Does it matter if different people praying for the same goals think of the god they are praying to differently?

For anyone interested in uniting in prayer in this way, what should we pray for?

Is there any point in praying for such global goals as world peace, spiritual unity, or for every child to be properly fed?

My own benefits from prayer have come through praying for psychological changes, such as repenting of feeling inferior and hoping for confidence. Can we change the psychologies of our cultures through prayer?

How can we make the world better through collective prayer?

What you are referring here IMO is if magick is real. If it is, IMO it is the human condition of our hypocrisy that limits it. Sure if we all had a goal of world peace it would take place. We can pray for peace all we like but when we are dominated by selfish concerns it just nullifies any directed energies from the intent of this "prayer" you refer to."

Just think what is the force of a prayer for peace if we are cursing out some svolatch for cutting in line? There is a conflict of energies which makes such prayer useless even though it is politically correct to suggest. Jesus refers to this lack as not having even the faith of a mustard seed.

Existence itself is just the collective result of energies manifesting as what we collectively do as an expression of what we are. How can good intention effect it when we are a continually changing mixture of intents?
 
Existence itself is just the collective result of energies manifesting as what we collectively do as an expression of what we are. How can good intention effect it when we are a continually changing mixture of intents?

Close enough for government work. Nick and I agree.

This calls for a celebration.

Bartender! Two cheap beers.

And a glass of milk for my friend here.
 
Prayer is to spiritual health what exercise is to physical health. Prayer is spiritual gardening: weeding and cultivating. Prayer is a spiritual relationship.

Another way to look at it is to think of the universe as all mind, as the Diamond Sutra says. If all is mind, each of our minds are access keys to this universe of mind. The film, "what the bleep do we know" showcases similar conceptions of the universe and our ability to affect the way our lives unfold.

My ways of praying are rather idiosyncratic and have gone through many phases. I have seen positive results. The way I pray has more in common with the Buddhist practice of mindfulness than with what people may associate with the word 'pray'. When I catch myself thinking or acting in a way that I don't want to think or act, such as speaking in a belittling tone or perceiving with a broad brush, I try to pause and focus on what i experience as spiritual. I repent of the specific way of thinking or perceiving that I want to part with and then ask for a different way to think or perceive. It is like a swap. Get rid of one thing and choose something else instead. Stop going in one direction and choose a different direction to go in.

This is how I understand hope: as the flip side of repentance. Repenting specifies something that needs to change. Hoping specifies what it aims to become. Hope is a verb. Of course, hoping for something doesn't make it so. And when asking it is important to submit to the will of the One who gives.

How could this kind of prayer work on a collective level?
That's what I'm wondering.

Perhaps it is like voting. Each of us has the power to specify aspects of the way the world is that we want to change and the power to choose a different way for the world to be. Perhaps unconscious prayers pass through our minds constantly as we go about our days accepting the status quo as inalterable. In this way we choose to go where ever the status quo is taking us rather than picking a direction to go in.

What I'm getting at, I suppose, is that if each of us has a vision of how we want the world to be --perhaps we don't even have to agree --we need to choose specific aspects of our vision to replace specific aspects of the status quo that we want to change.

I realize that just choosing an ideal doesn't bring it about. And if you want to clean up your neighborhood a broom is likely to have practical results quicker than prayer is, but maybe it's worthwhile discussing ways to change ourselves through prayer.
 
We are always collectively praying and affecting the world.

As I see it the key problem is always.

As long as we continue to whine about the economy or poverty we will continue to see poverty.

As long as we pray for healing the world will provide things that need to be healed.

When our race (human race's collective) consciousness moves ahead the world will to.

I discuss this with kids in Sunday school. They may pray for better test scores or a better relationship within their family...but these prayers last moments...the rest of the day they are complaining under their breath or to their friends about how their parents don't understand them or what a waste of time school is.

So the problem is...what percentage of time do we spend in prayer for good vs. the time we spend putting our thoughts and energy toward the opposite?

Our thoughts are prayers
and we are always praying
our thoughts are prayers
take charge of what your saying
seek a higher consciousness
a place of peacefullness
as every thought becomes a prayer.
 
There is a general emphasis on a public presentation of self as someone who is in control. One way to communicate the desired attitude is by an upright posture.

The religious attitude is different: prostration is a way of signifying it. Different societies/religions have their variations.

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Seems to me the point of convergence here is that sometimes it's easier to get the mind to follow the body.
 
Perhaps like if you want a calm and happy dog, you want a dog with head up and moving forward?

And if you want a calm and happy horse, you want a horse with head down and moving forward?

Are people best off in the prostration position? I think it's kind of interesting- I thought most Buddhists meditate in a lotus position. Druids are often encouraged to meditate sitting upright in a chair- kind of the ergonomically correct "sitting at a desk" position. So I don't know if full prostration is uniformly considered the way to engage the mind properly in spiritual life. I love prostration positions... but they put me to sleep. :)
 
Many believe that having several people praying for the same goals has great power.

Does it matter if different people praying for the same goals think of the god they are praying to differently?

For anyone interested in uniting in prayer in this way, what should we pray for?

Is there any point in praying for such global goals as world peace, spiritual unity, or for every child to be properly fed?

My own benefits from prayer have come through praying for psychological changes, such as repenting of feeling inferior and hoping for confidence. Can we change the psychologies of our cultures through prayer?

How can we make the world better through collective prayer?

Thanks for your post Sancho!

Yes I think collective prayers are important.. In my community we have a fairly strong inter-faith community and have collaborated a lot in having prayer and worship together..this way Jews, Muslims and Christians, Bhaa'is, Hindus and Buddhists and collaborate and have more opportunities to work for world peace and efforts to solving social ills in the community.

- Art
 
but what difference does it make if you ask for something cause the all seeing and all knowing should be able to see and know that you require it anyway.

Salam PM, I think that is why it's important for prayer to be about worshipping G-d and not just asking for stuff. Of course He knows much better than we do what we need or want but of course the principle of be careful what you wish for comes into it.

If we only pray to ask for things then why should G-d grant our prayers? If we are faithful and worship Him regularly then why wouldn't He if He see's it is best for us?

Many believe that having several people praying for the same goals has great power.

Does it matter if different people praying for the same goals think of the god they are praying to differently?

Lovely thread Sancho, thank you.

My personal opinion is no it doesn't matter, we are all praying to the same entity no matter how we view/name Him.

Something I try to pray for every day is to remove the fear/dispair from the hearts of people that are oppressed in the world ... maybe someone would like to join me in that one?

this way Jews, Muslims and Christians, Bhaa'is, Hindus and Buddhists and collaborate and have more opportunities to work for world peace and efforts to solving social ills in the community.

That gave me a lump in my throat Art, brilliant to hear about it.
 
Something I try to pray for every day is to remove the fear/dispair from the hearts of people that are oppressed in the world ...
The only way that goal could be achieved is if those who are the aggressor and the oppressor, who cause the fear and despair, would have a change of heart and walk a different path than they currently do.
I hope for that too.
Maybe they could stop building landmines and start building things that are useful.
Maybe they could start building a better world instead of destroying it.
Maybe things like economic attrition, and monetary oppression will disappear.
Maybe people will start looking at those around them as being equal in importance as themselves.
Maybe those things would be a good start.
 
Just re-read my comment to PM and realised it may read that I was suggesting PM only "prays for stuff" ... was not what I intended to say sorry. I meant people that pray in general .. woops.
 
There is a general emphasis on a public presentation of self as someone who is in control. One way to communicate the desired attitude is by an upright posture.

The religious attitude is different: prostration is a way of signifying it. Different societies/religions have their variations.
Seems to me the point of convergence here is that sometimes it's easier to get the mind to follow the body.

I love prostration positions... but they put me to sleep. :)
I think this would be a good example of the mind following the body. :)
 
To me prayer is a way of thinking...or not thinking. Depends on the individual.
Some seem to use prayer to focus their thoughts and draw strength over issues that worry or concern them. Others seem to do them by rote and are thinking very little as they recite an essentially meaningless mantra. Either way it is a time out on normal activity and maybe useful to our overall wellbeing. But I do not believe prayer works independent of other action to achieve the goal. And in the religious that cite 'my prayers worked' they are seeing only chance or the fruits of their other efforts beyond prayer.
The evidence is if you are going to pray for someone do not let them know you are doing it. People that know they are being prayed for do statistically worse than those that do not.
 
During a week-long Metta sesshin I was struck by the difference in focus this practice provided.

Normally during meditation my mind was internally drawn. I would follow my breath, observe my thoughts, feel the aches and pleasures in my body. From that perspective one can then forget the self, but it begins with introspection.

With Metta, I was shown that meditation can begin with an outward approach: "May all beings be at ease, may they be free from suffering." It struck me that this was more the mind of the Buddha: not focused inward, but outward... not on oneself, but others... rooted in compassion for all living beings.

That is as close as I get to prayer.
 
To me prayer is a way of thinking...or not thinking. Depends on the individual.
Some seem to use prayer to focus their thoughts and draw strength over issues that worry or concern them. Others seem to do them by rote and are thinking very little as they recite an essentially meaningless mantra.

The other possibility, the one I generally use for prayer, is that I recite prayers I or others have written beforehand and I contemplate the words as I am doing so. It is not rote memorization and recitation, nor am I not thinking. Yet, I am not using prayer as a time to blurt out all my thoughts and worries and concerns.

I figure God already knows my worries and concerns. I mostly use prayer as time to do two things- to be grateful and worship God and to offer prayers for the ending of suffering of all beings. It's a shifting of gears toward contemplation. I suppose in many ways, my prayers are just an extension of meditation. I feel uncomfortable with what Christians call "intercessory" prayer because it feels like meddling with the flow of the universe, but without the thought put into magical practice. Aside from that, for myself, it feels like whining to run off a list of my concerns to God. I figure if I am consistent in my focus on living my life to the best of my ability, on helping and loving others, and on worshipping God... then whatever happens will happen and my job is to focus on being peaceful and joyful enough to find these states in all situations, rather than ask for something specific.

Either way it is a time out on normal activity and maybe useful to our overall wellbeing.

I find meditation and contemplative prayer very useful to my wellbeing. It is putting time aside to bring myself consciously into a space of gratefulness, of awareness of the many blessings of life, of unity with all beings, and of compassion. It is an opportunity to reaffirm my commitment to my own spiritual growth, my patience with what gets thrown at me, and loving other beings as myself. It is also an opportunity to focus on pathways to get there, as some prayers, like the Druid's Prayer, outline a path for opening the mind and heart.

But I do not believe prayer works independent of other action to achieve the goal. And in the religious that cite 'my prayers worked' they are seeing only chance or the fruits of their other efforts beyond prayer.
The evidence is if you are going to pray for someone do not let them know you are doing it. People that know they are being prayed for do statistically worse than those that do not.

I think that is often because when you say to someone "I'm praying for you" they think that must mean they are bad off (the studies I read were conducted with severely ill people).

I believe intercessory prayer (prayers for a particular event) work basically as magic/spells do. It's a way of focusing one's intent, which also generally focuses one's actions and heightens one's observations about opportunity. It also boosts confidence and hope, which help in many situations. Basically, I think intercessory prayer generally works through means of one's personal power over one's life, not only to further particular action, but also potentially to utilize more forcefully synchronicity.

Because of this, I think it's an entirely different activity than prayer as a form of worship and contemplation or meditation. The focus (and I think the means through which it works) is different.
 
To me prayer is a way of thinking...or not thinking. Depends on the individual.
Some seem to use prayer to focus their thoughts and draw strength over issues that worry or concern them. Others seem to do them by rote and are thinking very little as they recite an essentially meaningless mantra. Either way it is a time out on normal activity and maybe useful to our overall wellbeing. But I do not believe prayer works independent of other action to achieve the goal. And in the religious that cite 'my prayers worked' they are seeing only chance or the fruits of their other efforts beyond prayer..
Namaste Tao,

You are leaving me slightly incredulous. Now is this your thought about how and what prayer is for others or for your atheistic self? Please enlighten.
The evidence is if you are going to pray for someone do not let them know you are doing it. People that know they are being prayed for do statistically worse than those that do not.
Any thoughts on that last comment? I know the stats and I think it worth discussing. I think ego is involved.

a. you are told you are being prayed for.

b. you expect wonderful things and recovery from this prayer.

c. if your expectations are raised and you do not meet your expections (instant healing, miraculous recovery, speedier recovery...whatever)

d. disapointment, anger, resentment, loss of faith...all of which could cause the internal production of chemicals/toxins deliterious to your recovery...

Now do all of those that are prayed for have b, c, and d occur...no, but it seems to me probably enough to account for the statistical difference.

Does that make sense to anyone other than I?
 
Namaste Tao,

You are leaving me slightly incredulous. Now is this your thought about how and what prayer is for others or for your atheistic self? Please enlighten.
Just as soon as I know why you are incredulous :)

Any thoughts on that last comment? I know the stats and I think it worth discussing. I think ego is involved.

a. you are told you are being prayed for.

b. you expect wonderful things and recovery from this prayer.

c. if your expectations are raised and you do not meet your expections (instant healing, miraculous recovery, speedier recovery...whatever)

d. disapointment, anger, resentment, loss of faith...all of which could cause the internal production of chemicals/toxins deliterious to your recovery...

Now do all of those that are prayed for have b, c, and d occur...no, but it seems to me probably enough to account for the statistical difference.

Does that make sense to anyone other than I?
I think the finding suggested that it did not encourage hope at all, it made the despondency worse from the outset.
 
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