Christianity and womens head covering

Muslimwoman

Muslimwoman

Coexistence insha'Allah
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Hello, can I have a Christian perspective on head covering please. At what point in history did Christian women stop covering their heads and what justification was there for this?

Also was it only for praying or did they cover their hair outside too?

Just came across this and was very suprised how much emphasis is placed on a woman's hair .. very interesting.

"11:2 I praise you 1 because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 11:3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, 2 and God is the head of Christ. 11:4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered disgraces his head. 11:5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is one and the same thing as having a shaved head. 11:6 For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair. But if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, she should cover her head. 11:7 For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. 11:8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. 11:9 Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for man. 11:10 For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority 3 on her head, because of the angels. 4 11:11 In any case, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 11:12 For just as woman came from man, so man comes through woman. But all things come from God. 11:13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 11:14 Does not nature 5 itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace for him, 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 6 11:16 If anyone intends to quarrel about this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God." (courtesy of NETBible.org)
 
hi
historically it was pretty widespread and certainly an emulation of the Roman patrician class and the vestal virgins under the control of the pontifex maximus or high priest [both roles later taken over by the Roman Catholic church as nuns/pope and the brides of christ/patriach in the orthodox church], as was the muslim's emulating Mohammed's [pbuh] wife?

short article here on an informative site

The Veil
 
Interesting points, nativeastral. Also, here's trying to explain what's going on in the passage symbolically:

One possibility is that this passage on head covering was part of the pageantry of 'The Lord's Supper'. The entire context surrounding it is about eating topics, and the head covering itself is about the glory of God vs. man. Keep in mind that the Eucharist is a reflection of, if not a participation in, the marriage supper of the lamb. This symbolism has ancient roots as it comes from the scriptures about Israel's marriage to God. So it is about the marriage of Christ and the Church, celebrated through communion. The church is called the body of Christ, which is the glory of man; and Christ is the 'Head' of the church, or the husband, representing the glory of God. I do not really understand based upon this why the head coverings would need to be worn at times when communion was not being taken. Requiring them at all times would seem to me like saying that communion was not symbolic of a future marriage, but a celebrating of perfection already obtained. That is what such a marriage would be: perfection. In that case, however, would symbolism still be needed?
 
When I was a kid women wore hats to church...

I think the whole hat thing slowed down when they got so large they obstructed everyone's view.

Sounds like a joke but I believe there is some basis in it.

Also increasingly the cost of keeping up with the joneses and getting new hats to show off on Sunday...once it became a material thing, a fashion show, the religous underpinnings were forgot so as style changed it went away...

that and in western Christianity the sects/denominations that stick to the literal letter of the law are less and less.

In my mind expressing as a Christian one should show love and compassion and not be concerned about nitpicking about clothing.

Much as I believe you can attest to one following the five pillars first and worrying about the nuance later...

ie the abortion clinic bomber that is concerned about wearing a hat has bigger issues than the hat and a suicide bomber who claims Islam should focus on some other parts of the Koran.
 
Muslimwoman said:
For a man should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. 11:8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. 11:9 Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for man. 11:10 For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority 3 on her head, because of the angels. 4 11:11 In any case, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
Click to expand...

Compare these scriptures regarding the angels that sinned with women:
2 Peter 2:4

View commentary related to this passage

4 For if God didn't spare (A) the angels who sinned, but threw them down into Tartarus (B) [a] and delivered them to be kept in chains [b] of darkness until judgment; (C)

Jude 1:6



6 and He has kept, with eternal chains in darkness for the judgment of the great day, angels (A) who did not keep their own position but deserted their proper dwelling.
​
Just how did these angels sin? They forsook their heavenly dwelling to marry human women and have children with them. (Woman was created for man, not for angels...compare the passage MW quoted from 1 Corinthians 11 in this context...) Women were having children independent of man...

Genesis 6:1-4

View commentary related to this passage

Genesis 6

Sons of God and Daughters of Men

1 When mankind began to multiply on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God (A) (spiritual creatures, like God--being "sons of God" compare these passages from Job regarding the sons of God--sg) saw that the daughters of man [a] (human women-being daughters of man--sg) were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives [b] for themselves. (B) 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit will not remain [c] with [d] mankind forever, (C) because they are corrupt. (D) [e] Their days will be 120 years." 4 The Nephilim [f] were on the earth both in those days and afterwards, when the sons of God came to the daughters of man, who bore children to them. They were the powerful men of old, the famous men.​
 
To be honest, I never really understood what Paul was getting at. It makes sense during the context of the time/place, but it doesn't make sense to me during our current time/place (in the US). It is unclear to me why headwear is particularly noteworthy as spiritual action. I also bristle at the idea that I'm somehow under man's authority while man is under God's, so I should be covering my head as some symbol of that. What can I say? I was raised in a feminist environment in a family almost entirely composed of women. I learned early on that I am capable as any man to make decisions, to have a religious/spiritual life, to study and pray and so forth. So why would I be under a man's authority, unless he were proven to have earned it?

Though there are certainly days when my hair is not cooperative and I wish I had a scarf... :)

It all just seems like some way to get women to outwardly display and inwardly accept a second-class role, just as not allowing women to be spiritual leaders or having double standards for sexual conduct makes women second-class citizens.

Mind you, I don't mind if women find a spiritual or religious meaning in head-covering, and more power to them. But the idea that everyone must do it, and for the reason of sexual protection, to me seems problematic. I often wonder if, in part, covering long hair was a practical issue during group prayer or worship particularly. I can well imagine a bunch of people who might not have had regular access to shampoo and I'd want the hair covered too! ;)
 
I think that for all of Paul's eloquence at times, that is one of the more garbled passages in his writings.

I have no idea if headcovering really was a widespread practice in all the young Christian communities. Paul often wrote to a specific community trying to address an issue that was local, often with the aim of trying to fit the mores of the culture around them.
 
To be more serious, I agree with you, Luna. Paul frequently wrote to a church about a particular issue with that particular church, and he probably never meant many of his writings to be in widespread use on par with the Gospels themselves. That is my view of it, anyway.

Paul has other sections in which he says women should be silent in church, for example, but studies I have read on the subject explained that he was speaking to a particular church where the women were gossiping and so forth at church... not saying that for all places and times, women were not allowed to teach or lead or even talk at church.

I approach Paul with acceptance of context and occasionally with disagreement that I chalk up to different times/places... otherwise, he comes across as quite misogynist at times and that is not what I feel, in the Spirit, is meant.
 
Another reason for women covering their heads when a woman prophesies might be to distinguish Christianity from the Dionysians, where the woman were often wild-haired from the wine. (At Pentecost, many of the people looking on said, "they are full of new wine" when they saw the Christians speaking in different languages.)
 
Muslimwoman said:
Also was it only for praying or did they cover their hair outside too?
Click to expand...
History books suggest Jewish women had head gear for public places in general.
DISSERTATION: A Discourse Analysis of 1 Corinthians, 2.4 Aspects of Culture at Corinth

Just came across this and was very suprised how much emphasis is placed on a woman's hair .. very interesting.
Click to expand...
Like other behavioral standards that appear in the Bible (e.g., the so-called 'moral laws' of the OT), the emphasis seems to have had social value: to help define group entity. Even though he wrote in Greek and lived within Greek culture, Paul was a Jew and seem to have been trying to assert the importance of Jewish ways vis a vis the Greek ways.

lunamoth said:
Paul often wrote to a specific community trying to address an issue that was local, often with the aim of trying to fit the mores of the culture around them.
Click to expand...
It seems he was actively discouraging early Church members from adopting Greek culture in the hope of preserving a Jewish heritage for the early Church.
 
Woa, that proff's site is a treasure trove of experience. Go to his main page and he's got links to cool pc utilities (notetab), and also I thought his overheads were really good, for example under the contemporary religions he's got a diagram of the two most popular timelines for the return of Jesus. He's got a Unix how-to for DOS users! He's the man!!!!
 
Muslimwoman said:
Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace for him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. If anyone intends to quarrel about this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God." (courtesy of NETBible.org)
Click to expand...

Paul's letters were meant to instruct the new churches on how they were to conduct themselves. Judging from what he says here (and I agree soooooo much with Luna, and would hazard that anyone who says they actually understand this passage is fibbing), it appears that it was considered impolite for men to wear "head coverings" in church, and vice versa for the women. Has that changed so much? Put up your hand if you wear your baseball cap to church? When I was young, I wasn't even allowed to wear a cap in school, and if you wear one into the Canadian Legion Hall, you'll be required to buy a round of beers for EVERYONE there as a gentle reminder to show respect for veterans.

I think the key to this passage is the "judge for yourself" part. Things change over time, but respect is always respect, and I think the point was that Christians ought to present themselves in a respectful way when they meet together. The fact is that we probably won't ever know exactly what Paul meant, because his instructions were meant for a specific group of people at a specific time and place. For all we know, maybe the women who were taking their "head coverings" off were distracting the young men from their worship (every church has that teenaged girl who's attire is more suitable for the club scene than for choir practice, yeah?). Judge for yourselves: does nature not teach that fishnet stockings and spandex aren't appropriate in the place of worship? Perhaps they will be someday, just as un-hatted women are today.


"Do you really think I care,
What you eat or what you wear?
I want you to join together with the band."

-The Who
 
Thank you so much everyone, great replies and very valuable links.

So it sounds as though Islam followed a similar path in requiring Muslim women to differentiate themselves outwardly from the pagan women.
 
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