Christianity lacking a WHOLEsome view?

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PandaMentionalBeing

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Alright, so I googled deus meumque jus, to find that it means, God And my Rightness. Most of the links I found, were relating this latin phrase to the Masonic use by Albert Pike on the cover of Morals and Dogma Of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. I've done a lot of studying into this tradition too; So when these websites choose to slander the beautiful words of wisdom being spoken through these ancient traditions, as satanic/devil worship/luciferian or whatever they choose to call it, it urges my western mind to want to intervene.

First off.
I'm interested in where at in the Bible does it state for a Christian to neglect other traditions as Gods word? Because unless I'm mistaken I am quite sure it does say to only follow God's?( I Could be Far off wrong Lol)

Secondly.
Who here agrees that the Christian/western worldview lacks the eastern train of thought, that sees GOOD IN EVIL as a WHOLE, or a UNIFIED FIELD? I specifically say this because of a couple websites having the same article basically which claims Masonry is worship of Satan. Using this excerpt:
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

I needed to BOLD the Lucifer, and italicize Light-bearer and he, because that is how the book itself does in physical form(I own a copy). This in itself, implies a connection of subjectiveness. That is why its meant to stick out to reader, correct? Anyone with a sense of understanding for Masonry knows that individual interpretation is key to development and moving through your degrees. Anyways, the website carries on to say:
Masons from the first initiation which is the first degree are urged to mightily "seek the Light!" The average Mason is continually saying that he is "seeking the Light," and will spend his entire life "moving toward the Light."
People who haven't studied this subject would assume that this "Light" is the revelation of the God of the Bible. This statement is continuously held up to try to convince us that Masonry is Christian. In the above quote, Albert Pike is saying that Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonry.

Now, my connection between this and the lack of Eastern understanding of how to connect the two principles of Good and Evil as a Whole. I think this is one way the Masons are able to connect this understanding of Lucifer as the Light-bearer who blinds the feable, selfish souls. Sounds as simple of an understanding as an old wives tale. It takes one to know one; God himself, must be multifaceted to create the Whole of creation.


Your thoughts?

Edit, I must add, that Christianity (in the thread title) is referring to the dominant christian worldview of the masses. Not of a true understanding of the Christian principles.
 
I agree with what you wrote and would like to the continue the thought.
All there is, is God, otherwise there is no God. If there is anything that exists which is not God, then there is no God; therefore, God is the source of all things that means evil as well as good. All things and circumstances are generated out of God, the power of the universe. The individual minds in God create what we call evil. The root of this evil is not seeing the unifying force, withholding love and condemning others. The opposite is love, a magnet that attracts and unites the best of everything in a greater and greater good. We do not create this expanding wholeness because it is a divine idea, but we can become aware of this divine Reality that has existed since before the beginning of time by opening up and accepting it, when it creates a wonderful new good in our lives.
The individual through intuition knows that which is outside by bringing it inside the conscious mind where the perception and the perceiver become one and the same. This is a process of love where one knows and loves something by bringing it into his heart. Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object on the outside of Reality because everything exists inside subjectivity. This is the perception that the Christian theorists have, and they understand that the Universe has to be one in order to exist at all. Our thoughts arise from a medium in which both the one who sees, and that which is seen, exist in unity. The Bible says, "God is everything." Therefore, God exists in me, and because of this I can recognize other beings in which God exists. This is the medium through which we are conscious of others, our environment and ourselves; therefore, “Love your brother as your self.” I feel the Bible is coded so one gets from it according to his/her level on the spiritual journey. Therefore, I feel Christian Mysticism is important on the journey.
 
There are plenty of Christians that believe in a more wholistic approach, and in others beliefs. I don't think all of Christianity is missing out on this. However many of us who are more of the ilk you speak (I can't speak to masons or lucifer as I don't know much about the former and don't believe in the latter). But this is part of the topic of Bishop Spaldings, Why Christianity must Change or die....

Last night we had a Buddhist Monk come to talk prior to our meditation, Tuesday was yoga class and Meena and Krishna Somanchi have often come to chant with us, last night I opted for Tai Chi as I've spoke with the monk many a time... Now some will cry blasphemy having such things in a Christian church and others will simply say we are not Christian...
 
Well said Soma.

Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object on the outside of Reality because everything exists inside subjectivity.

This could be the basis working point of this whole point, basically. To realize that one is within the working functions of the subject and object; As a whole.
 
One must realize that traditional Christianity teaches that Lucifer was one of God's greatest creations. Presumably the highest angel above Michael and Gabriel, until rumour has it that he got too big for his britches and developed visions of granduer, evidently assuming status of the Light itself rather than the bearer of that Light, which ultimately lead to his down fall, to become the Prince of Darkness. What a stark contrast!

One wonders, however, that had he kept his estate as light-bearer, what role would he play, particularly in regards to humans? Would humans still have eventually fallen despite the absence of a temptor? Or would the light have shone upon man enough to keep him at bay?

I suspect that eventually, in our autonomous condition, we would have fallen eventually, those it would have taken us a little longer. If we have a mind to think good, then we always would have the mind to think evil as well.

Perhaps the Masons intentions were to encourage to seek the light with a pre-fallen Lucifer as an example.
 
PandaMentionalBeing said:
Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object on the outside of Reality because everything exists inside subjectivity.
Click to expand...
What does David Hume have to say about this?
 
PandaMentionalBeing said:
Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object on the outside of Reality because everything exists inside subjectivity.
Click to expand...

Is this an objective statement?
 
Well, I quoted soma.

From my perspective, I would say he spoke it objectively and found it subjectively. I would also denote the usage of 'outside of reality', because reality for me seems to be a world of subject/object Co-creation, or evolution in a slightly odd form? Lol. I'm more leaning to saying something along the lines of say, "There is no outside without first being inside," and vice versa. Basically speaking, I would paraphrase him by saying, "Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object projection on the outside without first having subjectivity from within."
 
What does a Christian mean by the term good? A short answer might be, that which God wills. What does a Christian mean by the term evil? The answer is the opposite, that which God does not will.

Or, put another way, what God wills is good, whatever it is, because God wills it ... that is how the Christian, and indeed the Western Philosophical Tradition, perceives God and the Good. Philosophy has tended to regard the two as distinct, whereas Christianity regards them as one and the same.

To argue that both good and evil reside in God infers from the above that God on the one hand wills what He wills, and simultaneously and equally wills what He does not will ... a logical contradiction ... why would God will what He does not will? Any circumstance that would bring this bizarre situation about would also reveal the existence of something greater than God, to which God is subject.

In which case one is no longer talking about the Christian God at all.

+++

If one considers the trascendentals — the Real, the Good, the True, and so on, one very quickly realises that the synonyms of evil are the unreal, the untrue, something that has been argued from the very beginning of the Christian Tradition, that it's not a case of this-and-that, so much as a case of 'something-and-nothing' — that evil, for example, often appears as an immediate, sensible or short-term good, but ultimately leads ... nowhere.

The attraction of evil is chimeric, it is a glamour in the tradition Scots sense of the word, a superficiality, with no depth, no presence, no being ... essentially it is a lie, whether a self-deception, or a deception at the hands of another, evil as such has no 'ground' as it were ...

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If one follows the Christian metaphysic that evil is a privation — what renders something evil is precisely the absence of good — then this leads to an ontology of evil that says evil in itself has no actual existence, as evil qua evil would require the utter privation of everything, and 'nothing' cannot exist as 'something'.

In this sense then, the Christian has no problem is regarding evil as both something not willed by God, whilst at the same time not a thing that exists apart from God, because evil as such has no existence.

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In the study of being and non-being, there are primarily two orders of non-being: The Divine is non-being because in transcends every aspect and mode of being in a superabundant manner; Evil is non-being for precisely the opposite reason, because it is deficient of every aspect of being.

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The Sun and the Moon cards in the tarot ... ?

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Evil requires a moral component ... a positive determination to do the wrong thing, as it were, presumably for a self-serving reason. Evil and bad are not synonymous, and we cannot accuse any nature not possessing a rational intellect of being or doing evil — so it would seem evil is limited to angels and humanity.

+++

Just some thoughts ...

Thomas
 
Matt 5
43 "You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor (AQ) (AR) and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies [r] and pray for those who [s] persecute you, (AS) 45 so that you may be [t] sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (AT) 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? (AU) [u] Don't even the Gentiles [v] do the same? 48 Be perfect, (AV) therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​
Love both your neighbors and your enemies--just as God does...I don't know how you can get any more wholesome than that...;)
 
PandaMentionalBeing said:
Well, I quoted soma.

From my perspective, I would say he spoke it objectively and found it subjectively. I would also denote the usage of 'outside of reality', because reality for me seems to be a world of subject/object Co-creation, or evolution in a slightly odd form? Lol. I'm more leaning to saying something along the lines of say, "There is no outside without first being inside," and vice versa. Basically speaking, I would paraphrase him by saying, "Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object projection on the outside without first having subjectivity from within."
Click to expand...

this totally resonated with wilbers video on subject/object

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/ken-wilber-central-11798-3.html#post212737
 
PandaMentionalBeing said:
Who here agrees that the Christian/western worldview lacks the eastern train of thought, that sees GOOD IN EVIL as a WHOLE, or a UNIFIED FIELD? I specifically say this because of a couple websites having the same article basically which claims Masonry is worship of Satan. Using this excerpt:
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]
Click to expand...

Just because something beautiful can emerge from and overcome the ugly does not in any way lessen the degree of the original treachery nor does it make it necessary.

soma said:
If there is anything that exists which is not God, then there is no God
Click to expand...

Just because something can be payed attention to does not mean that it exists.

dondi said:
One must realize that traditional Christianity teaches that Lucifer was one of God's greatest creations.
Click to expand...

Link/citation?

Originally Posted by PandaMentionalBeing
Nothing can appear in the objective world unless there is first a subjective world to perceive that object; therefore, there is no object on the outside of Reality because everything exists inside subjectivity.
Click to expand...
What does David Hume have to say about this?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that Kant's writings on subject and object relationships address all those of Hume's and are what made Kant one of the most prolific philosophers ever.
 
I feel as if your reply in regards to my first post was lacking understanding. The original treachery of which you speak is what exactly? Lucifer betraying God? I believe that's just an example of morality, if that is even what you speak of.
 
PandaMentionalBeing said:
I feel as if your reply in regards to my first post was lacking understanding. The original treachery of which you speak is what exactly? Lucifer betraying God? I believe that's just an example of morality, if that is even what you speak of.
Click to expand...

Well, on the one hand, someone could validly say that, by definition, betrayal is not participating in the Form of the Good-- betrayal in itself certainly doesn't incur any value outside of its outcomes . I suppose this may be a morality issue but it might not be one either since one could easily say too that betrayal doesn't incur any value from its outcomes either.

On the other hand, another person such as myself could say that "betraying God" is not a conceivable option.
 
Also, can you show me how traditional Christianity or the Bible have anything to say about "Lucifer"?
 
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