Cain and Abel's offering

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soleil10

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Genesis 4:4-5 The LORD was pleased with Abel and his offering, but not with Cain and his offering.

Why do you think God was pleased with Abel offering but was displeased with Cain's offering ?

Why troughout the bible Gdo prefers the younger son and not the first son ?
 
Genesis 4:4-5 The LORD was pleased with Abel and his offering, but not with Cain and his offering.

Why do you think God was pleased with Abel offering but was displeased with Cain's offering ?

Why troughout the bible Gdo prefers the younger son and not the first son ?
Abel gave God his first offerings (first sacrifice from man to God). Cain gave a portion of his first offerings, but not all...God instructed Cain that he would except no less than man's all for him...

I also think first borns are blessed and cursed with being born first, and therefore of the opinion they have to be in control of things. (I know that is is a bane for me from time to time). God has to remind us that this is not absolutely so...:eek: Some of us take it in stride, and others take it badly.
 
Abel gave God his first offerings (first sacrifice from man to God). Cain gave a portion of his first offerings, but not all...God instructed Cain that he would except no less than man's all for him...
Genesis 4 "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect."

It does not say that Abel's offering was first and that Cain gave only a portion. Where did you read this

I also think first borns are blessed and cursed with being born first, and therefore of the opinion they have to be in control of things. (I know that is is a bane for me from time to time). God has to remind us that this is not absolutely so...:eek: Some of us take it in stride, and others take it badly.

What about Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau ?
What about Perez and Zarah ? (see below)

Genesis 38: 27-30 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.

And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.
And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

All the way starting from within the womb, God wants the younger son to be blessed.

Those are just not coincidences. There is a pattern here
 
I always thought it had something to do with the type of sacrifice offered. Since Cain's sacrifice didn't involve the shedding of blood, consisting of grains and vegetables..etc, it was rejected. The precedent being that God had to kill an animal to cover Adam and Eve, as their fig leaves were not adequate. What Cain ought to have done was barter with Abel to obtain a sheep or goat or whatever and offer it up to the Lord. Technically, it would have been his to offer up after buying it from Abel.
 
Genesis 4 "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect."

It does not say that Abel's offering was first and that Cain gave only a portion. Where did you read this



What about Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau ?
What about Perez and Zarah ? (see below)

Genesis 38: 27-30 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.

And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.
And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

All the way starting from within the womb, God wants the younger son to be blessed.

Those are just not coincidences. There is a pattern here
Let's start with the first offerings. It is obvious by what is written that Abel offered by faith (first and best offerings). God told Cain that his was rejected due to lack of faith. (a portion of first offerings). God wanted faith from Cain with his offerings, but did not get it. And Cain's contenance fell.

"Contenance" here means "All by myself"...we are told flat out why Cain's offering was rejected. He did it all by himself. "See what I give you God!" My best!!! and I did it all by myself!!! I planted the seed, I grew the crops, I did all the work...

Abel was of a different "contenance". Not only the first, but the fats as well, in the hopes that God would find his first offerings, pleasing. He had nothing to offer God, but what God gave him to care over. Abel did not give life to these animals, and had even less to offer God in achievement. He simply kept watch over what God gave him and when the time came, offered the best he could prepare in the hopes, and faith that God would be pleased...and God was.

The story is always the same...the oldest thinks they can do it all by themselves, and then have to be corrected.

Hey, let's take this one step further in order to avoid dispute...

The Prodigal son...was the younger and more foolish...yet his brother never left his father's side, as was his "contenance"...

Yet, who was angry at the end?

You show me an oldest brother, and younger brother in the bible, and I'll show you an inherent flaw in the oldest brother's thinking about doing things by themselves...

Hell, I can bring it home to today, within my own family. There was a day when my own dad said to another "My oldest never asked for a thing". To which the listener said "you must be proud". To which my dad said, "No, I'm not, he is a fool"...
 
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Here's one for you to consider:

What if John the Baptist is the "first" born of God (a miracle birth in itself), followed by the second born of God (Jesus)?

Why not? Typical personality of a first born was John, yet differing to Jesus, yet at the end of his life, in question of Jesus' position...

could be...
 
I thought animal (fleshly) burnt sacrifices symbolized the destruction of fleshly tendencies, like those listed in Galatians 5:
16 I say then, walk by the Spirit (Q) and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires (R) what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don't do what you want. (S) 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: [a] [b] sexual immorality, (T) moral impurity, (U) promiscuity, (V) 20 idolatry, (W) sorcery, (X) hatreds, (Y) strife, (Z) jealousy, (AA) outbursts of anger, (AB) selfish ambitions, (AC) dissensions, (AD) factions, (AE) 21 envy, (AF) [c] drunkenness, carousing, (AG) and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (AH)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit (AI) is love, (AJ) joy, (AK) peace, patience, (AL) kindness, (AM) goodness, faith, [d] 23 gentleness, (AN) self-control. (AO) Against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus (AP) have crucified the flesh (AQ) with its passions and desires. (AR) 25 If we live (AS) by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. 26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (AT)​
Cain obviously didn't work on the fleshly desires, as he became jealous (work of the flesh) of his brother, and murdered (work of the flesh) him.


Notice what God told Cain:
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you furious? (D) And why are you downcast? [c] 7 If you do right, won't you be accepted? But if you do not do right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must master it." (E)

Cain had to master it himself, because he didn't ask for God's help to overcome the fleshly desires in his sacrifices...
 
I thought animal (fleshly) burnt sacrifices symbolized the destruction of fleshly tendencies, like those listed in Galatians 5:
16 I say then, walk by the Spirit (Q) and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires (R) what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don't do what you want. (S) 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: [a] [b] sexual immorality, (T) moral impurity, (U) promiscuity, (V) 20 idolatry, (W) sorcery, (X) hatreds, (Y) strife, (Z) jealousy, (AA) outbursts of anger, (AB) selfish ambitions, (AC) dissensions, (AD) factions, (AE) 21 envy, (AF) [c] drunkenness, carousing, (AG) and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (AH)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit (AI) is love, (AJ) joy, (AK) peace, patience, (AL) kindness, (AM) goodness, faith, [d] 23 gentleness, (AN) self-control. (AO) Against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus (AP) have crucified the flesh (AQ) with its passions and desires. (AR) 25 If we live (AS) by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. 26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (AT)
Cain obviously didn't work on the fleshly desires, as he became jealous (work of the flesh) of his brother, and murdered (work of the flesh) him.


Notice what God told Cain:
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you furious? (D) And why are you downcast? [c] 7 If you do right, won't you be accepted? But if you do not do right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must master it." (E)

Cain had to master it himself, because he didn't ask for God's help to overcome the fleshly desires in his sacrifices...
Then you discard the sacrifice of the old woman who give two pennies to the church, in hope and faith that she can please God in helping others...

that defeats the entire purpose of God, which is to get man to turn to him in hope and faith, regardless of what they are personally capable of...

God took her offering to heart, over the greatest offerings of others...to the point of bringing it to our attention again, in the bible.
 
Here's one for you to consider:
What if John the Baptist is the "first" born of God (a miracle birth in itself), followed by the second born of God (Jesus)?
Why not? Typical personality of a first born was John, yet differing to Jesus, yet at the end of his life, in question of Jesus' position...could be...
Yes the struggle between John the Baptist and Jesus can be added to the list. Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, Zarah and Perez etc..

In each case the younger son is blessed by God.

One of the greatest providential victory for God in the bible is when Jacob (Abel) as the younger brother won his older brother Esau's heart (Cain) and both united. This time Esau (Cain) did not kill him (Abel) as he had wanted

Jacob's efforts to induce Esau to welcome him back and submit to him of his own will were incredible. Even when Jacob was returning from Haran to Canaan, Esau still had resentment against Jacob because Jacob had previously taken the blessing from him with his mother's help.

So Esau led an army of four hundred men and went to meet Jacob. When Jacob received news of this he prayed to God and did all he possibly could.
Gen 32:20 "...'I may appease him with the present that goes before me, and afterwards I shall see his face; perhaps be will accept me'".

He sent ahead of him as a gift for Esau the more than five hundred livestock that he had earned as a reward for his hard work during 21 years in Haran. Jacob also made an alternative plan, dividing the people and livestock into two groups, so that one might flee if Esau attacked

Gen 32:7,8. When he was about to meet Esau, he deliberately put his beloved wife and child in the very rear, so that he was fully prepared to escape if it became necessary
He himself went ahead of them, bowing to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother (Gen 33:3). He greatly humbled himself, saying to Esau, "'...for truly to see your face is like seeing the face of God, with such favor have you received me'" (Gen 33:10).

Jacob did his best to fulfill God's Will and to change Esau's heart from one full of hatred to one that would embrace him with love. Esau was moved by such efforts and sincerity on Jacob's part and welcomed him.

Genesis 33:4 says, "...Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck and kissed him, and they wept." Esau loved Jacob and welcomed him back, despite the fact that he had taken the birthright from Esau.

From that great victory, God named Jacob Israel. The struggle between Cain and Abel was overcome this time.

It is important to understand why God required such a condition from Cain and Abel and later on from Jacob and Esau. I has to do with reversing what took place during the human fall and restoring the fallen nature that was inherited from it in preparing the foundaton for the Messiah
 
Yes the struggle between John the Baptist and Jesus can be added to the list. Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, Zarah and Perez etc..

In each case the younger son is blessed by God.
It might go deeper than that. There are two accounts of the beginnings of man...or is there?

The first account is of God creating man and woman and all is well and good...but it ends there. They are created, and go on their merry way.

The second account may be of a particular couple, created second in the scheme of things, and to those two God took special interest in. They in effect, would be second born...and blessed unlike the first two.

Don't laugh, but consider "In the beginning, God created Neandrethal man, and called them good."

Then God created Homo Sapien Sapien, and called them good, and named them, Adam and Eve. In otherwords, God became "personal" with the second "couple" of man (who's lineage can be traced to modern times, while the others' lineage is lost to time).

The "pattern" is apparently intact from the beginning...:confused::)
 
It might go deeper than that. There are two accounts of the beginnings of man...or is there?
The first account is of God creating man and woman and all is well and good...but it ends there. They are created, and go on their merry way.
The second account may be of a particular couple, created second in the scheme of things, and to those two God took special interest in. They in effect, would be second born...and blessed unlike the first two.
Don't laugh, but consider "In the beginning, God created Neandrethal man, and called them good."
Then God created Homo Sapien Sapien, and called them good, and named them, Adam and Eve. In otherwords, God became "personal" with the second "couple" of man (who's lineage can be traced to modern times, while the others' lineage is lost to time).
The "pattern" is apparently intact from the beginning...:confused::)
I have no idea what you are talking about
 
The Masoretic text is not the only textual tradition that includes Genesis. The Scriptures known to and quoted by the Apostles and Christ were the LXX. The LXX says the following:

" [FONT=&quot]And it was so after some time that Cain brought of the fruits of the earth a sacrifice to the Lord. And Abel also brought of the firstborn of his sheep and of his fatlings and God looked upon Abel and his gifts, but Cain and his sacrifices he regarded not, and Cain was exceedingly sorrowful and his countenance fell. And the Lord God said to Cain, Why art thou become very sorrowful and why is thy countenance fallen? Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him."

(Genesis 4:3-7)


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Here's one for you to consider:
What if John the Baptist is the "first" born of God (a miracle birth in itself), followed by the second born of God (Jesus)?
Why not? Typical personality of a first born was John, yet differing to Jesus, yet at the end of his life, in question of Jesus' position...could be...
During the process of the human fall the position of our spirit which was originally in the subject position over our physical body was seriously damaged.
After the human fall, our physical body became the subject instead and dominated our spirit. This is why we mean by A&E died. It was not their physical body but their spirit.
Since that moment God, our Heavenly Parent has worked without stopping to raise our spirit back to where it was supposed to be.
If our flesh dominates our spirit, we cannot be truly happy and mature.

John the Baptist, like Cain in front of Abel needed to submit to Jesus and follow him. This process is required in order to restore our fallen nature and separate ourself from it.

Esau after great struggles was able to embrace Jacob. This was a great victory for God in terms of reversing the process of the fall.

Esau overcame his fallen desire to kill Jacob who had taken his birthright from him with the help of his mother.

It was unnatural for Esau to do so. Jacob made many conditions and finallly won the heart of Esau.

It was also unnatural for Cain, the elder son to submit to Abel. God ask providential figure in the bible to do act of faith and reversal of dominion in order to reject Satan dominion over man.

This was necessary because Adam and Eve rejected God commandement in favor of Lucifer commandement.

God needed champions that would reverse the actions of Adam and Eve in order to make a foundation for a second sinless Adam and second Eve that can fulfill Gen 1:28

Gen 1:28 is the receipe for creating ideal families
 
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