Newsweek article - We are all Hindus Now

[Ramaraksha]

Here is the link to the article:

U.S. Views on God and Life Are Turning Hindu | Newsweek The Smart List | Newsweek.com

Any thoughts?

 

[shawn]

It seems that more Americans are choosing cremation. According to the article.
This is a good thing as there are far too many cemeteries which take up prime land which could be used more productively, to cater to archaic beliefs concerning the body.
But a thought I had was that if someone takes the ashes of a cremated person and sprinkles them somewhere perhaps they may be causing heavy metal and other toxins to be released into the ecosystem.
Over the decades of life, people become repositories for the toxins which eventually kill them so perhaps the crematoriums should have to use chelating agents such as zeolite (which they used in Chernobyl for example) to filter out the poisons in the cremated remains prior to releasing them to the families as god only knows where they will end up.

 

[nativeastral]

plus,lets face it, over here anyways burial plots are expensive and hard to come by! Not that cremation is much cheaper probably, a disgrace and just another reason to screw the living.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

It seems that more Americans are choosing cremation. According to the article.
This is a good thing as there are far too many cemeteries which take up prime land which could be used more productively, to cater to archaic beliefs concerning the body.
But a thought I had was that if someone takes the ashes of a cremated person and sprinkles them somewhere perhaps they may be causing heavy metal and other toxins to be released into the ecosystem.
Over the decades of life, people become repositories for the toxins which eventually kill them so perhaps the crematoriums should have to use chelating agents such as zeolite (which they used in Chernobyl for example) to filter out the poisons in the cremated remains prior to releasing them to the families as god only knows where they will end up.

If we are worried about the environment then burial is more conserving. The body rots and provide nutrients to plants etc.

Cremation (and this is particularly relevant in the third world) causes deforestation, wastes energy and produces global warming byproducts. Deep burial at sea is probably the best method of disposal using recycled rocks for weighting. This would provide food for the deep ocean feeders and provide a source of protective habitat in the vast ocean planes (bones rocks etc) and produce less harmful by products.

The only problem is the fish might start to taste funny.

But hey it's time they got something back after all those years of exploitation.

Is that any worse than the wheat getting tainted by all the dead compost.

 

[Obadiah Abdullah]

A Hindu believes there are many paths to God.

That's a generalization. That's like saying Christians love everybody. Hinduism in a lot of ways is like Judaism with an ethnocentric theology and caste system. I can't conceive of an orthodox Hindu believing that a non-Hindu has any role to play on earth other than being an extra, or that Christianity or any other religion has an equal validity to the vedas. I'm sure there are many Hindus in the world that are open-minded, but not because of any single incontrovertible command from a God. Try to be a non-Hindu dating a Hindu woman, and see quick the family will be to adopt the 'all paths are equal' nonsense.

American religion is becoming more universalist.

 

[Avi]

If we are worried about the environment then burial is more conserving. The body rots and provide nutrients to plants etc.

Don't agree, TEIN, burial takes too long for decomposition.

Cremation (and this is particularly relevant in the third world) causes deforestation, wastes energy and produces global warming byproducts.

Interesting point.

Deep burial at sea is probably the best method of disposal using recycled rocks for weighting. This would provide food for the deep ocean feeders and provide a source of protective habitat in the vast ocean planes (bones rocks etc) and produce less harmful by products.

The only problem is the fish might start to taste funny.

But hey it's time they got something back after all those years of exploitation.

I like the way this guy thinks. Very outside the box !!

Here is a very unique idea for you, TEIN, I bet you will like this one. Bioreactors to expediate the compostion of the corpses. Then feed the nutrients to all the little fishes and kitties and puppies too !! We could even get PETA support for this !!

 

[immortalitylost]

But a thought I had was that if someone takes the ashes of a cremated person and sprinkles them somewhere perhaps they may be causing heavy metal and other toxins to be released into the ecosystem.
Over the decades of life, people become repositories for the toxins which eventually kill them so perhaps the crematoriums should have to use chelating agents such as zeolite (which they used in Chernobyl for example) to filter out the poisons in the cremated remains prior to releasing them to the families as god only knows where they will end up.

Cremated remains aren't really ashes, at least the remains from modern crematory procedures. They're the little chunks of bone that won't burn up as easily as the rest of the body, ground up. So it's mostly calcium and junk... I'd suppose. No harm there.

People can make themselves into diamonds now.

You could be the family heirloom! How awesomely creepy is that?! LOL.

Personally, I wanna be shot off in fireworks! That'd be so awesome!

The only problem is the fish might start to taste funny.

Waiter, why does my fish taste just like chicken?

American religion is becoming more universalist.

I think you've more accurately hit it there. Our religion is becoming like our culture. All mishmash. It can come up with some pretty interesting stuff.

I'm certainly likin it. At least one part of America is cool.

 

[Ramaraksha]

That's a generalization. That's like saying Christians love everybody. Hinduism in a lot of ways is like Judaism with an ethnocentric theology and caste system. I can't conceive of an orthodox Hindu believing that a non-Hindu has any role to play on earth other than being an extra, or that Christianity or any other religion has an equal validity to the vedas. I'm sure there are many Hindus in the world that are open-minded, but not because of any single incontrovertible command from a God. Try to be a non-Hindu dating a Hindu woman, and see quick the family will be to adopt the 'all paths are equal' nonsense.

American religion is becoming more universalist.

Well only a Hindu would say "Iswar, Allah Tere Naam" - God your names are Siva, Allah (I will add christ) - Bring peace to all. Can a Muslim or a christian say that?

Actually the Allah here is not the Allah of the religion of Islam but the Allah of Islam the faith. When man first looked up to the heavens and found God, he came up with a name for God, and as there are several languages, each came up with a different name. That was faith. But as time went by faith degenerated into religion - each with its own dogmas. I may be baised but by and large Hinduism is a faith and not a religion. Some dogmas have crept in obvioulsy, but by and large it is an inclusive faith not an exclusive one.

You use the word command from God - actually Hinduism is very different from yours - yours is a King Religion, God patterned after a King. Ours is a Teacher religion - God is our Guru, guiding us on the path to Moksha. A Teacher teaches, suggests and advices her students, never commands. We are responsible for our own fate, not God.

As for the caste system, it degenarated to its present form (as a muslim you can understand how a religion can be used for immoral purposes) mainly because of arranged marriages. Varna (not caste) was merely a occupation title - so a learned person was called a Brahmin, and a king or warrior was called a Kshatriya. A famous example is that of Sage Vishwamitra a Brahmin, was originally a King, a Kshatriya. Realizing the power of Knowledge the King left his kingdom and became a Brahmin. There was a free flow of people within varnas - but arranged marriages degraded the system to what it is today.

As for Hindus dating non-hindus, speaking as a Hindu, I would have a problem if my niece was dating a christian or muslim, others like Buddhist or Jain would be fine. The values are totally different for christians and muslims -first they will try to convert her even before marriage. Take a look at Sonia Gandhi. Can you imagine a Hindu woman marrying into a christian or muslim political family being allowed to remain a Hindu? Can you imagine that country giving the power of rule to a woman who is not of their religion? In Pakistan by rule one must be a muslim to be a President.

As I said, the values are totally different.

1. We don't teach fear of God - Our God is a Teacher not a King. Nothing to fear here.

2. We don't condemn others for not being a Hindu. Can you imagine the Buddha being born in europe or muslim lands being allowed to spread his faith? He would have been branded a heretic and burned to death! His teachings consigned to the fire to be lost forever! There would be no Buddhism today! Nor would they be a Sikhism, Jainism, Zoarashtrism nor the innumerable tribal religions (which are by the way under assult from christianity in India). No place of refuge for Bohras, Jews & Tibetans.

It is not a coincidence that until the modern age, western and muslim lands were barren except for one religion each, whereas Hindu India was and is a polyglot of hundreds of religions.

We don't want a mindset of my way or the Highway.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I do think that one of the main reasons that Americans are becoming more Hindu, as the article states, is the concept of Rebirth. To me, the prospect of a flesh-happy heaven does not hold any charm, and the prospect of being sent off to eternal hell by a petulant, childish God, scares me to death!

To me, the Gift of Life is the Greatest Gift of All, to be savoured over and over again! As I get older, like most people I look back. I regret the missed opportunities, the mistakes made, the people that I lost.... I love animals and would have loved to be a Vet, a la James Herriott. In this life I remained unmarried, so in my next life I hope to be married and have children. I am not one-and-done, I have something to look forward to. What a great Gift.

Most Americans love this idea, but I don't think they have any concept of Karma or Moksha. A Hindu is working his way towards Moksha, not just being born over and over.

I don't want to impose my religious teachings on others, so I am not sure if Christians and Muslims are reborn. I have accepted the view that if christians and muslims believe in rebirth, then it will happen for them, though I am not sure what their God might say about that. But those who do not believe in Rebirth, they are one-and-done.

 

[shawn]

Actually Hindu's did not originate the idea of souls being eternal and bodies being containers for them with a recycling process occurring. But that is kind of an obscure point. I do see why you are discussing the idea from that angle as Hindu's are the largest current group which does think this, but the idea is also embraced by those of other branches of faith as well. Even Judaism (some groups) teaches that idea.

Ramaraksha:
I don't want to impose my religious teachings on others, so I am not sure if Christians and Muslims are reborn. I have accepted the view that if christians and muslims believe in rebirth, then it will happen for them, though I am not sure what their God might say about that. But those who do not believe in Rebirth, they are one-and-done.

very politically correct of you.
But I disagree, as there is only One Universal Principle, or God, so why would there be differences in how LIFE works based upon subjective opinion?

Besides, "carrot and stick" religions need to be beaten with sticks and have their carrots taken from them as they have proved they do not know how to play well with others. ( I jest ) (although it is a good idea )

 

[Ramaraksha]

I do think generally society as a whole is moving away from the carrot and stick policy. Threatening people with dire consequences if they do not comply, I think that policy no longer holds any appeal. Make people understand why following the rules of the land benefits us all, is the new mantra.

Once upon a time, a child could expect some beatings if he misbehaved. Today that would mean a visit from the authorities. Instead today's parents try to make the child understand what he had done wrong.

To me, that is exactly what Karma & Rebirth are all about. I don't believe that we will be punished for the wrong doings of the past. Let's remember that Hinduism is a teacher religion - Krishna did not fight the war, he only adviced and instructed. A Teacher will teach, advice and instruct - a teacher derives no pleasure in doling out physical punishment. It's like failing a class, we get to redo the class or if we had done well, we move up a class.

What amazes me is how far ahead Hinduism was for its time!

 

[Dream]

I am not convinced that burial plots are going to be a problem. Even the most sacred burial spots eventually get forgotten. Eventually, eventually; all the best burial plots become shopping malls. If it comes down to living/farming space and burial plots; people 'Forget' that there is a plot and 'Accidentally' build over it. What is the oldest burial plot I know of? Its one of those that are pre-Egyptian. They were sacred, then they were forgotten and now some archaeologists are digging them up now. I mean, the more you try to protect your burial plot the more interesting it becomes to somebody else down the line. 10$ says that the pyramids become shopping malls or casinos within 200 years.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Cremated remains aren't really ashes, at least the remains from modern crematory procedures. They're the little chunks of bone that won't burn up as easily as the rest of the body, ground up. So it's mostly calcium and junk... I'd suppose. No harm there.

And very likely to be the calcium of the several 'occupants' toasted with you I would have thought. I can't imagine them taking too much individual care. I can envisage all the ashes faling through the grate. All for one and one for all.

I do think that one of the main reasons that Americans are becoming more Hindu, as the article states, is the concept of Rebirth. To me, the prospect of a flesh-happy heaven does not hold any charm, and the prospect of being sent off to eternal hell by a petulant, childish God, scares me to death!

I would have thought more Americans are becoming Hindu was more to do with the migration of cultures around the world combined with the religious freedom when they get to the US. If migrants end up in to countries where to convert a local to your faith, resulted in someone dying, I suspect there is little hope of external faiths establishing themselves with any sustainability.

...
Besides, "carrot and stick" religions need to be beaten with sticks and have their carrots taken from them as they have proved they do not know how to play well with others. ( I jest ) (although it is a good idea )

Amen to that.

...
Once upon a time, a child could expect some beatings if he misbehaved. Today that would mean a visit from the authorities. Instead today's parents try to make the child understand what he had done wrong.
...

I like this. It could be the basis of a whole new way of thinking. If we could get the health and safety boys and social services involved with the afterlife things would great for us all regardless of what our beliefs.

Hell, with hard hat regions, fire guards and proper safety regulations might be more than bearable. Rebirth with proper controls on what was a 'humane' next step could be workable.

Avi:
Don't agree, TEIN, burial takes too long for decomposition.

How long have you got? If we used cardboard coffins and were all given a pound of flesh eating bacteria when we were buried, instead of embalming fluids, things could be pretty quick

Suspending my usual mantra (In the short time we have left) for a moment.

What always amuses me with the concept of heaven, that quite a few religions believe in, is that it's always painted as an idyllic place.

Bearing in mind the normal "Entrance rules" these religions have, why would anyone imagine it's going to be pleasant.

Let's suppose there was a religion where, as an entry qualification, to get into that particular religions heaven you had to be beaten every day with very large sticks, only had sex only twice (once to get the idea and once to produce an offspring) in your whole lifetime. A religion where you were allowed to drank alcohol and was supposed to eat only ground up cereals with water.

Now in what reality could any exponent of such a faith expect things to change after death. Imagine it. An eternity of total boredom. Certainly to expect anything even remotely reassembling a free for all orgy with wine women and song has to be beyond all the realms of fantasy.

Whereas the other place, thats where all the fun loving people will be. OK you might be the one on the receiving end of sharp pointy sticks but at least it wont be boring (well assuming the stick isn't being twisted)

 

[immortalitylost]

Yeah, satan is really a party guy. A friend of a friend gave me some inside info from beyond the grave!

Ooo, can I have a pointy stick? It sounds like a fun toy! Like lawn darts! And wood branding kits! And baseball bats! Weee!

I appologise. I'm hyper. I get strange when I'm hyper...lol.

*random giggle*

Peace!

 

[shawn]

Yeah, satan is really a party guy. A friend of a friend gave me some inside info from beyond the grave!

Ooo, can I have a pointy stick? It sounds like a fun toy! Like lawn darts! And wood branding kits! And baseball bats! Weee!

I appologise. I'm hyper. I get strange when I'm hyper...lol.

*random giggle*

Peace!

No more Ritalin lollies for you young girl.

 

[Dream]

I do think generally society as a whole is moving away from the carrot and stick policy. Threatening people with dire consequences if they do not comply, I think that policy no longer holds any appeal. Make people understand why following the rules of the land benefits us all, is the new mantra.

Once upon a time, a child could expect some beatings if he misbehaved. Today that would mean a visit from the authorities. Instead today's parents try to make the child understand what he had done wrong.

To me, that is exactly what Karma & Rebirth are all about. I don't believe that we will be punished for the wrong doings of the past. Let's remember that Hinduism is a teacher religion - Krishna did not fight the war, he only adviced and instructed. A Teacher will teach, advice and instruct - a teacher derives no pleasure in doling out physical punishment. It's like failing a class, we get to redo the class or if we had done well, we move up a class.

What amazes me is how far ahead Hinduism was for its time!

Hey Ramaraksha,

Whenever there is a cultural change, the possibility of a generation gap is likely; so a new culture will be backward in some ways and struggle and waste much time to catch up again in those areas where it has no training. That is why in some ways Hinduism seems to be 'Ahead of its time' -- because it has retained (along with its cultural baggage) the advantages of an ancient culture. The colonials, while lacking these advantages, have contributed to a 'Let's look at this again' attitude. Their contribution has been to cause the world to review itself, one culture comparing notes with another. Everyone benefits from there being both stable and unstable cultures.

I think of the world as a cultural stock-market in which European colonies have been a new and risky fund and Hinduism has been one of the more conservative staple funds. A healthy stock-market portfolio has both kinds of funds, because sometimes the risky ones fail. Sometimes the stable ones fail to progress. The way I see it, Hindus are from an ancient culture; so they benefit from a stack of cultural inputs that colonials don't have. We colonials are a relatively new culture and have been culturally orphaned to an extent; but the world is sharing with us in part (to make up for this) and we are in part sharing what new things we have found with the world. When we began, we did not worry about appearance and reputation; because we had none. At the same time, we had no one to 'send us to college'. That is why many considered us both backward and progressive.

I think that whenever people experience generation gaps, it is almost like getting orphaned. (For instance, a child with no parent may be culturally at a disadvantage.) It is not that children of established families (stable cultures) are necessarily better than orphans (colonials), but its that they benefit from cultural inputs that orphan-progressives do not have. Orphans are fighters. At the same time an orphan who begins a new family does not carry the same evil baggage that some established families do. Orphans are under no pressure to 'keep up appearances', for instance. This is what it has been like for colonials on a culture-wide scale.