For now I'm only gonna reply to this thread, as long as you take an effort in discussing with me. That's the only interaction I'll make on this site for now. If you continue to disrespect my beliefs and censor me, I will be permanently out of here after this discussion. If you agree to let me speak freely, I'll make sure you won't regret it. The choice is up to you. If you're willing to expand your mind and to learn about another view on life, then you have only one choice....... If you're not, then I'll have to say goodbye.
I said:
The only people who tell me I am close-minded are the people who insist that their own agendas be the central pivot of CR.
Surely that was not my intention. I became a part of this forum to be able to speak about spirituality with other people. There was no hidden agenda. I assumed that my beliefs would be accepted, just like anyone elses, as this was a forum which I believed to welcome all forms of spirituality.
The about section of this site said:
This is a strictly non-commerical website, simply intended to serve as general internet resource for human thought in all its diverse expressions, and in a comparatively neutral manner.
You surely have a problem with staying neutral.
I said:
Ultimately, as stated, I do want to welcome you as a person - you're intelligent, well humoured, and in most generally shown yourself in a personable way. For the most part - across most subjects - you fit in fine with the overall multifaith community that we have here.
So why censor me then? Try me, and maybe you'll get a new insight in the world. By disallowing people like me to speak freely, your view on the world and different forms of spirituality will be limited and biased. I dare you to let me speak freely, and let me show another way of thinking.
I doubt I'll ever convince anyone of what I believe in, spiritual, political of scientific. But that's not my intention here. This site of for comparative purposes, right?
I said:
But you should surely not be naive enough, to think that publicly subscribing to an apologetic revisionist history of the Nazi's, is going to be anything but extremely inflammatory in a multifaith forum.
I'm just sick of all the lies being told about the history of NS Germany. So when I see people speaking of "a genocide on the jewish race" and other crap, it's very hard for me not to say anything. I'm a very extraverted person, and I don't even care what people might think of me, when I speak out. I just feel like it's my duty.
The only case where I started a threat myself on this forum, regaring my political stand, is the social darwinist question. I clearly mentioned the board term 'social darwinism' and not the more specific term 'national socialism' in an effort not to stir things up too much. Unfortunately I failed in this. I already explained my intentions for that thead.
I said:
Asatru and LaVeyian Satanism have a strong sense of the individual empowered - but they make no claim to be associated with mindless brutality that is a fact of the history of Nazi Germany.
Some call themselves National Socialists and are proud to associate themselves with NS Germany. Other call themselves Social Darwinists or something else and try to avoid any association with NS Germany. Most believers of these religions however are on the ultra-right of the political spectrum, as the values of these religions are ultra-right values.
Further, there was no mindless brutality done by the German army, accept for some rare occasions or some rare divisions (such are the Dirlewanger division). In fact, when I think of mindless brutality during WW2, I automaticly think of the US army and their behavior in Japan : the rapes of innocent Okinawan women, the nukes, ... If a German soldier would rape a woman in war, and this got to his superiors, he'd probably by shot. The German army of that time was one of the most disciplined armies of the 20th century.
And just an annecdote :
My grandmother lived in occupied Belgium during the war. She was 18 years old in 1939. She smuggled butter between Holland and Belgium. Her boyfriend (who later became my grandfather) always had to hide, so he did not have to work for the Germans. They were not quite sympathisers for the national socialists. They were forced however to allow German soldiers to take residence in the home of my greatgrandparents. Later, when Belgium was 'liberated', American and English soldiers took their place. When I asked her as a kid about her impressions about these soldiers she told me this :
- the German soldiers were very sweet and polite
- towards the English soldiers she seemed pretty neutral
- the American soldiers acted like pigs
I was shocked at that time (I must have been about 10 years old), because I had always learned that the 'nazis' were monsters. In some way that must have lead to a chain of events, by which I slowly shook off the indoctrination about NS. But it wasn't until a few months ago - at the age of 22 - that I realised that revisionism holds much more truth than official history.
I said:
That you subscribe to exlusivism within inclusivist society is your right and democratic freedom - despite that the political ideology you subscribe to brooks no dissention, critical, or alterantive views. That's the nature of inclusivism.
All forms of state have a tendency to boycot certain beliefs of make them illegal. In the world of today, my ideology and similar ones are boycotted or illegal. In a national socialist world, it are other ones. I have not yet heard of any truely exlusivist society.
I said:
Nothing about CR is about enforcing a left or right position - the entire place is centered upon a neutral and non-partisan inclusivism. But it is important to note that CR is also a community, and the overall feelings of the community must be taken into account.
That reminds my of a computergame I'm playing, called Anachronox. It's a very cool role playing game, published in 1999, and it has great humor and some very interesting political edges. At one time, you go to an alien planet called "Democratus" where everyone is legally obliged to vote. People are free to vote whatever they want, as long as their vote is on the same line as the votes of the counsil.
My point is : beliefs that are in the minority should not be boycotted in any way, or else you do not have 'inclusivism' which you claim to have but yet another form of exclusivm.
I said:
And though we try to see a policy of inclusivism here, ultimately this is not a Free Speech forum, but a civil community for interfaith dialogue. The needs of the overall community must be observed.
By boycotting certain beliefs, you are not quite an inclusivist myself. I have my own political discussion group on deviantart.com which
IS inclusivist (
http://artpolitics.deviantart.com/ ). There are zionists, conservatives, liberals, communists, national socialists, pro-Americans, ... That's because I believe that in a discussion group ALL opinions are valuable, even those I reject with every bone in my body.
I said:
Ultimately it was the general observation that providing a free platform for neo-nazi revisionism would be extremely destructive to the overall multifaith community.
It's not destructive at all, but very constructive. It shows a different view on things, which some people may not be aware of.
It one would say that it's OK to murder six million jews, then it's an inflamatory, discriminating and a threat to the peace in this community. But if someone says it never happened, then it's food for discussion. Where's the harm in questioning a part of history? If it really happened, then you'd just have to give a list with solid evidence and my stands would be ridiculous. If you're not able to find solid evidence, then maybe I'm right and the public has the right to know a different version.
Still, I'm not interested in starting many threads about revisionist history or stuff like that. I only ask not to be censored and to speak freely, whatever I wish to say. The chance that I'd ever start a thread dedicated to revisionism is very slim anyway.
I said:
That is something that required acting upon. It would have been irresponsible to do otherwise.
Not quite. You're simply thinking with a narrow mind. Every belief is acceptable to you, as long as it doesn't interfere with what you believe in. If we were in the computergame Anachronox, I'd suggest you move to Democratus. You'd fit in perfectly.
I'm probably the most openminded person you'll ever meet. I treat everyone with the same respect. I have some friends who are marihuana and computergame junkies. I have a friend who has two degrees in civil engineering with a title of doctor coming up. I have a friend who moved to a catholic prayer community in Italy. My girlfriend is in law school and her beliefs are totally different from mine. I have a friend who's born from an Italian immigrant family. I have several friends who are lesbian.......
And these are only real life friends. My list of online contacts is even much more diverse.
You'll probably never understand me..... Very few do.
