Karma or God?

The Undecided

The Undecided

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Which is right and more just, that God gave us free will and this is why suffering happens or our karma is playing out from a previous life? When thinking about the many children that suffer in the world I find it hard to accept either, yet no other choice can explain it all, it seems to me. So I feel compelled to pick one as a world view to follow.
 
Both happen -- do not pick one and ignore the other. We are burning off our bad karma from previous lifetimes. We are also presently using our free will to build up new karma -- either good or bad. It is the interplay of both situations that gives us the confusing state we are now in.

"Karma or God?"

--> I do not see either as being mutually exclusive, as the title of this thread seems to suggest. Perhaps you should ask karma and God?
 
I see karma as a law of cause and effect....a law of reciprocity (perceived good or bad)...Whereby the principle we call G!d introduces grace into the equation...

Karma....you pushed this great big pendelum....and it makes this big arc of a swing could come back in a moment or few generations.... but if you haven't changed, you are still there to receive it...

Grace allows you to move off the intersection of the (perceived) bad or move to a new earlier intersection of the (perceived) good...

Perceived because each interesection with the pendelum is an opportunity (opportunity taken, missed or misinterpretted)
 
Wil,

That is a fascinating interpretation. Unfortunately, I do not believe in such grace, because it removes the person from the responsibility for what they have done.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Wil,

That is a fascinating interpretation. Unfortunately, I do not believe in such grace, because it removes the person from the responsibility for what they have done.
Click to expand...
Does it? Or does it remove them from retribution for what was done. If they grew from the experience, realized their error, made amends and moved on....why slap someon over the head for spilled milk after they've cleaned it up, said they were sorry and replaced the milk?

I don't see the universe having a need for revenge....just assisting us to learn.
 
The Undecided said:
Which is right and more just, that God gave us free will and this is why suffering happens or our karma is playing out from a previous life? When thinking about the many children that suffer in the world I find it hard to accept either, yet no other choice can explain it all, it seems to me. So I feel compelled to pick one as a world view to follow.
Click to expand...

Karma does not preclude free will, not does it imply previous lives necessarily.

s.
 
wil said:
I see karma as a law of cause and effect....a law of reciprocity (perceived good or bad)...Whereby the principle we call G!d introduces grace into the equation...

Karma....you pushed this great big pendelum....and it makes this big arc of a swing could come back in a moment or few generations.... but if you haven't changed, you are still there to receive it...

Grace allows you to move off the intersection of the (perceived) bad or move to a new earlier intersection of the (perceived) good...

Perceived because each interesection with the pendelum is an opportunity (opportunity taken, missed or misinterpretted)
Click to expand...

In agreement wil,

It seems grace is the only answer in clearing the backlog of karmic overload on the personal and world stage. In grace is a still point of now where life can swing into forward positive motion.

Grace allows a higher evaluation from the point of axis.

- c -
 
The Undecided said:
Which is right and more just, that God gave us free will and this is why suffering happens or our karma is playing out from a previous life? When thinking about the many children that suffer in the world I find it hard to accept either, yet no other choice can explain it all, it seems to me. So I feel compelled to pick one as a world view to follow.
Click to expand...
You list 2 options and say you must pick between the 2 but in reality there are more than just 2 options.
IMO it is our ignorance, either willful or accidental which is the cause of suffering (as just 1 other suggestion).
Perhaps this is momentum from a previous time.
We all set into motion so many things, even by our most seemingly inconsequential actions.
Maybe we delayed going somewhere by a brief span of time and as a result possibilities which could have been then can never be.
So this is anything but simple.
If you think on this for a bit you will see a huge spectrum of consequence arising not just from action, but also from inaction.
 
Wil,

It has been said that creating bad karma throws the universe out of balance, and burning off the bad karma restores the universe to its balance (and gains wisdom from the mistakes made and lessons learned). Yes, it seems that if a persons kills for the wrong reasons, but later repents and sees the error of his/her ways, that perhaps it should just be left finished and forgotten. I just do not think that is how it works.

I guess it all depends on what fits into a person's personal belief system. Karma fits into my belief system and does not fit into yours. That works for me!
 
When I see a child as a victim of war or poverty, I do not think God or Karma. I think, poor child, how can we prevent this from happening.

It is not for you to figure out these details and your time here is so precious. You are infinitely blessed to have the luxury of asking these questions, of sitting in a comfy chair over a computers; Instead of feeling guilt, remorse, sadness, I suggest switching your perspective to one of gratefulness. You will do more with your life that way.


'Your life is your altar'
 
shawn said:
You list 2 options and say you must pick between the 2 but in reality there are more than just 2 options.
IMO it is our ignorance, either willful or accidental which is the cause of suffering (as just 1 other suggestion).
Perhaps this is momentum from a previous time.
We all set into motion so many things, even by our most seemingly inconsequential actions.
Maybe we delayed going somewhere by a brief span of time and as a result possibilities which could have been then can never be.
So this is anything but simple.
If you think on this for a bit you will see a huge spectrum of consequence arising not just from action, but also from inaction.
Click to expand...


I'm well aware that there are a multitude of options but I picked these two because they make the most sense to me, yet they seem contradictory. This I guess is why I'm thinking I should pick between them. I'm looking for a world view that makes sense, perhaps I'm trying to simplify things too much.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Wil,

It has been said that creating bad karma throws the universe out of balance, and burning off the bad karma restores the universe to its balance (and gains wisdom from the mistakes made and lessons learned). Yes, it seems that if a persons kills for the wrong reasons, but later repents and sees the error of his/her ways, that perhaps it should just be left finished and forgotten. I just do not think that is how it works.

I guess it all depends on what fits into a person's personal belief system. Karma fits into my belief system and does not fit into yours. That works for me!
Click to expand...


I guess you could say that he/she has seen the error of their ways because of good karma they have accumulated from a good action in the past has given them some clarity, but they will suffer for killing in the future. Karma is always mixed.
 
The Undecided said:
I'm well aware that there are a multitude of options but I picked these two because they make the most sense to me, yet they seem contradictory. This I guess is why I'm thinking I should pick between them. I'm looking for a world view that makes sense, perhaps I'm trying to simplify things too much.
Click to expand...
How else can we do it....we pick two opposites and begin to reason....makes sense to me too.
It is good to work at simplifying the complex.
When we actually can make simple that which is complex, then we can say that we understand it...or, rather, others will make that observation for us.
Really though, the light that shines through my eyes is exactly the same as the light that shines through yours, we are all just different windows which open up the same Source.
When people realize this it will do a lot to make our world more kind for all who live here.
 
This is not a simple question.According to islam, muslims believe that ALLAH(swt) [GOD] is on control of every single thing, but he gave us sence to make our choices upon our attentions.ALLAH(swt) [GOD] gave us instructions to spend our life through his book and send us his phrophets as an example.We as human could make our choices one way or another but to spend our life accoding to ALLAH's {GOD's} given instructions serves the real purpose of humanity, and it also instruct us not to waste our lives spent on devil (satan) way, who's real purpose is to make you not to follow ALLAH'S {GOD'S} will,since he is the biggest enemy of mankind. .So basically,according to islam, our life is kind of a test.Every good and bad thing in our life is from ALLAH (Swt) and it is part of a test to see how good we perform our duties and abilities in a given situations,and also our prayers and deeds could alter our suffring as well as blessings.According to islam we only have one life in this world and which is also temporary, and our permanent real life is after death when we risen again on judgement day,further more Accept ALLAH (swt) everything in this world will come to an end on that day.That day everyone will be rised from thier death and must be judged upon their actions.
 
So according to your question,I believe that we only could make a choice where we have a choice or control,we should take action upon given instructions or may make some other choice,and those aspects of life where we don't have a choice or control for example born in rich family or going through hardship in life etc. are the tests to see how we perform.We expirence good and bad things in life in order to think and make ourselves better in every aspect.Therfore i think in our lives,we should always ask for forgiveness upon our attentions for our bad choices and actions, and ofcourse ALLAH[GOD] is most forgivng,mercyful and fully aware of our attentions.
 
onlyda1 said:
So according to your question,I believe that we only could make a choice where we have a choice or control,we should take action upon given instructions or may make some other choice,and those aspects of life where we don't have a choice or control for example born in rich family or going through hardship in life etc. are the tests to see how we perform.We expirence good and bad things in life in order to think and make ourselves better in every aspect.Therfore i think in our lives,we should always ask for forgiveness upon our attentions for our bad choices and actions, and ofcourse ALLAH[GOD] is most forgivng,mercyful and fully aware of our attentions.
Click to expand...
More importantly, you should forgive yourself.
All part of the maturing process.
Why ASK for that which is already given....you only need to receive.

Why is it that religious types are so confused about this point?
It shows that all the religions are training their adherents to beg and grovel for that which they already have been granted.

You are accepted.
You are loved.
You are forgiven.

Maybe some need to go through the penitent cycle to purge themselves of their bad karma.
 
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