The New Fundamentalism?

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Marsh

Disagreeable By Nature
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Fundamentalist is a label that seems to be tossed around pretty liberally on this forum. Basically, if you believe in the Bible, you're branded as a fundamentalist here by most of those (excluding the intellectuals) who do not. And what goes hand-in-hand with this label is, of course, the qualities associated with fundamentalism: intolerance, ignorance, arrogance, and down-right meanness.

I believe that there is another form of fundamentalism that's emerging in today's society-- one that dismisses anyone with strong religious convictions as narrow-minded. It masquerades as tolerance, but is intolerant. It pretends to be enlightened, but is ignorant (i.e. it ignores) of what Bible-believing Christians really think, and who they really are, instead arbitrarily and categorically dismissing all of us as crackpots and zealots and bigots. It demands that everyone not only tolerate, and not only accept, but believe in every and any belief set that others may have. And though they have no Bible to thump, if they did have a book of some sort in which their beliefs were collected they would surely whack you with it; in absense of such a book, they simply mock.

These people are not to be confused with intellectuals who question, discuss, debate, or object to Christianity or any other religion on philosophical grounds. These are people with an agenda that is not open to debate.

Does anyone else see this? Does anyone else feel like this?
 
Marsh said:
Fundamentalist is a label that seems to be tossed around pretty liberally on this forum. Basically, if you believe in the Bible, you're branded as a fundamentalist here by most of those (excluding the intellectuals) who do not. And what goes hand-in-hand with this label is, of course, the qualities associated with fundamentalism: intolerance, ignorance, arrogance, and down-right meanness.

I believe that there is another form of fundamentalism that's emerging in today's society-- one that dismisses anyone with strong religious convictions as narrow-minded. It masquerades as tolerance, but is intolerant. It pretends to be enlightened, but is ignorant (i.e. it ignores) of what Bible-believing Christians really think, and who they really are, instead arbitrarily and categorically dismissing all of us as crackpots and zealots and bigots. It demands that everyone not only tolerate, and not only accept, but believe in every and any belief set that others may have. And though they have no Bible to thump, if they did have a book of some sort in which their beliefs were collected they would surely whack you with it; in absense of such a book, they simply mock.

These people are not to be confused with intellectuals who question, discuss, debate, or object to Christianity or any other religion on philosophical grounds. These are people with an agenda that is not open to debate.

Does anyone else see this? Does anyone else feel like this?
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Yeah I absolutely agree with you :)

its another form of the same thing, I have even come across Eckhart Tollean Fundamentalists.
 
Namaste Marsh,

I love it, furndamentalist is tossed around liberally.

And liberal is tossed around fundamentally!

A Christian Fundamentalist to me is one who claims to believe the bible litterally. Ya know, the earth is 7,000 years old and created in 7 24 hour days just like the allegory says. A fundamentalist to me is one who condemns homosexuality due to Leviticus 20:13, but isn't ready to put adulterers to death 20:10, or for cursing their parents 20:9.

Fact is we all pick and choose which verses of the bible we quote and which we interpret and which we ignore. And there is almost always someone more fundamental than you and more liberal than you, whoever you are.

I got no issues with fundamentalists and bible thumpers who want to discuss the bible. But so often they have no interest discussing with me... Now fundies or preachers that say don't ask any questions, just listen to what I tell you....got no time for that.
 
"...don't ask any questions, just listen to what I tell you...."

--> That is one of the best definitions of fundamentalism I've heard.
 
Marsh said:
intellectuals ... question, discuss, debate, or object to Christianity or any other religion on philosophical grounds
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On occasion I may object to a particular interpretation of a religious or spiritual teaching, but to do so arbitrarily - without being able to defend one's point - is a bit misguided, imho. Seems like questioning, discussion and friendly debate is what we're probably all here for anyway. And, on occasion, where the proper opportunity arises, our own, personal Journey may become relevant and we may be able to share something that helps or Inspires others - in their Journey.

If this is all done in a kindred spirit, with patience and Respect, much good can come of an Interfaith website - and even of discussions punctuated, at times, by the most heated of exchanges.

But if cool heads do not prevail, if people become adversarial and allow this spirit to characterize their contributions, all that is sown is strife and discord.

The discordant exists because we cannot create Harmony where there is already perfect harmony and accord to begin with. This is the simple solution, in few words, to the problem of evil - theodicy. But unless you truly wish to be a CHAMPION for the Divine Principle in Nature which is given of God that we may all become better for learning its lessons and applying them in our lives ... it's good to drop the axe, maybe consider why its being taken to the tree to begin with - and probably start pondering the lilies a bit, just for good measure. ;)

I wholeheartedly agree when it comes to having a personal agenda. Best to set these as broad and inclusive as we can possibly make them, or better yet, follow the wise policy of leaving them at the door altogether. This seems the best mode in which to have ANY sort of religious or spiritual discussion and to explore where others' beliefs and ours may intersect.

I think you will find that most of us are quite capable, and very interested, in questioning, discussing, debating, or at times objecting - on scientific, philosophical or otherwise EXPLAINABLE grounds ... rather than simply saying we disagree and then downplaying what else has been said, straw-manning the other person's argument, or otherwise insulting them (directly or indirectly) for believing as they do.

Spiritual belief, as also Gnosis, is often a matter of Faith, for even while there may be claims to Divinely Inspired insight (in one's personal life) I tend to find that the Revelation grows stale and useless if it is not acted upon, and this (follow-through) requires, if nothing else, Faith. Thus, with the caveat that matters of the heart (and thus, of religion and of spirituality) cannot always be explained to others' - or even our own - satisfaction, I would say that what you've invited us to do is precisely what we're all here to do to begin with.

Shall we get on with it? :)
 
Hi everybody!

I have two more ideas about fundamentalism. One is that any type of inter-faith dialogue is based on respect. Two people from different religions can have quite deep and differing religious discussions, as long as an underlying understanding of mutual respect exists. Fundamentalists, by my definiton, are unwilling to show such respect.

Second, the whole idea of an inter-faith discussion is to throw out ideas, and see if those ideas fit or do not fit into the other person's belief system. One person might say, "Hey, I believe in heaven and hell. Do you?" The other person should then feel perfectly free to say if they believe in such things or not. The key idea here is to agree to disagree. The other person might say, "No, I do not believe in heaven and hell at all," making it clear (1) the two disagree, (2) the two are happy to agree to disgree, and (3) no one's feelings get hurt. Fundamentalists do not allow such things to happen.

When we encounter a fundamentalist, we should ask, "Is it OK with you if I disagree with you?" If they no, then we should just walk away.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
When we encounter a fundamentalist, we should ask, "Is it OK with you if I disagree with you?" If they no, then we should just walk away.
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I think that gets to the root of Marsh's post.

There are many folks, I guess me included whose fundamental is the right to disagree. And there are a number of folks that have what is deamed to be an unconventional belief, but they also are not interested in disagreement.

I know that more and more I am able to go into a service that at one point in my life just turned me off completely, but now I can sit and admire that those folks are getting a connection and their needs filled, and I also can find pieces that resonate with me...and that is enough.
 
We can even point to the presence of mind that the legislators of late 1700s America had to incorporate the 1st Amendment into the Bill of Rights. Notice that we have the right to freely assemble and practice our own, personal choice of religion, even to express in free speech what is that we believe - wherever others might be interested in listening.

What we do not have the right to do, however, is to impose our religious beliefs upon others, or to insist that they even listen to us (for any of us can simply walk away or go elsewhere if we are at an online forum which does not appeal). The question I would ask, is whether some folks might somehow believe that they do have this right to inflict upon others just exactly what it is that they believe - like some kind of infectious, noxious plague!

Nick has stated it precisely. Where there is an unwillingness to agree to disagree, and simply leave things at that, there can be nothing positive gained from further exchange. Weighing in on an issue, and perhaps giving some degree of background as to why one believes this way (especially and preferably where this has been welcomed and invited), seems like it should be all that is required.

Perhaps we might open a proselytism section and leave that forum completely unmoderated. :eek:

You can see, with a moment's thought, why this is completely out of the spirit and character of an Interfaith website, even where a person's interests might remain largely along the lines of comparative religion - or even just the political, scientific and artistic (mathematical, etc.) intersections.

So the forums are moderated, open discussion is encouraged, and the ground rules require a Respect and a tolerance which will naturally, if followed, lead to the 1, 2, 3 sequence of accord which Nick brought to our attention. :)
 
Marsh said:
one that dismisses anyone with strong religious convictions as narrow-minded. It masquerades as tolerance, but is intolerant. It pretends to be enlightened, but is ignorant (i.e. it ignores) of what Bible-believing Christians really think, and who they really are, instead arbitrarily and categorically dismissing all of us as crackpots and zealots and bigots.
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I Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I Peter 3:16-17 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1 Peter 5:1-4 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
 
Beautiful, Dream.
"being ensamples to the flock"
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These words alone could be the thought for a whole new topic of exploration, could they not?

I know just the perfect forum, though there are several which could also host it.
 
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