Democratic religion and spiritual democracy

[shawn]

Such things are forming even now.
I am aware of many people who are talking about similar ideas.
Hopefully we will see public manifestations of these things soon.

A potential problem with all this is the issue with simpletons.
There exists a majority of people who are quite simple.
Doesn't mean they are dumb or stupid (although in many this is debatable), but rather this has to do with the way they grew up and learned what they "know", or their lack thereof.
Many assume that what they "know" is true, but that is also debatable for the most part.
Also, many people are all about being simple and just enjoying themselves on the most basic levels with a disdain for anything beyond that.
This is why we have representational democracy as "the people" are deemed too simple to comprehend the issues..... so lets just pick some people who can then focus on this for us.....so we get specialized offices and bureaucracies which then manage these things for the people and then the people get disconnected from the issues and then dependent on the representatives.
This has just proved to get worse as the decades go by.
Now we have bright people suggesting a re-connection of the people with the job of governing ourselves (politically and religiously) and this is really only possible when 3 things can occur:
1) the mental capabilities of people (including their maturity levels) are increased;
2) the majority of people really desire this to occur;
3) our communication abilities become enhanced or dramatically improved.

We are depend upon technological devices, which are like crutches, to communicate with each other, but as the voting scandals and internet identity thefts have revealed, these prosthetics can be easily hijacked by vested interests.
So there are significant roadblocks in the way of this very important issue.

 

[Thomas]

Supposing the Deity and the Spirit is not a democrat?

Just a thought ...

 

[Dogbrain]

It seems that many people find the word democracy distastful. This is troubling. What I'm envisaging is not so much about the people ruling at all, it is more about the people deciding how their culture functions and influences the forming of their personalities. What other word represents this?

Democracy is a form of government.

 

[Dogbrain]

The change I'd like to see is to have a non governmental organization that could function both on local and global levels that would have an appealing networking site. Both the local centers and the website would be geared towards encouraging people to speak and listen: to discuss what local and global cultures could be --or anything else.

So start one--but the moment it takes a penny of money raised by taxation, it becomes just another arm of government, afraid to displease a potentially large source of funding. Likewise, such funding encourages chummy relationships between the alleged "non governmental" organization and government, granting disproportionate power to the individuals who run the alleged "non governmental" organization.

All taxation is ultimately extorted under the threat of violence--pay or go to jail, if you refuse to go to jail, we will send people with guns who will FORCE you to go to jail. Thus, any "non governmental" organization that accepts funds raised by taxation is a direct beneficiary of the threat of violence.

And riddle me a riddle--who gets to decide, in this hypothetical organization, how things get run? What if there is dissent within this organization?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Science is often seen as a world view that can replace religious world views. I find this a dangerous perspective.

I'm very pro-science, but I agree that science can never provide a complete worldview. It is silent on the subject of prescriptive ethics.

Democracy needs to be a cultural force seperate from governments and financial institutions. Democracy is the power of the people. Let states and corrporations be bedfellows for the time being, meanwhile we the people who want justice and tranquility for our brothers and sisters around the planet should consider how we can use the power at our finger tips to take matters into our own hands.

If democracy is the power of "the people", that includes states and corporations. They are part of "the people" too, and no less than you or I. I would rather not pit "us" against "them" and end up with a "rule of the mob" mentality. Less groupism, and more individualism and human brotherhoodism.

The members of states and corporations don't always want justice and tranquility, but some may, and I think that idealistic entrepreneurs and political reformers who seek to create ethical institutions are needed. We need to stop painting certain institutions as inherently bad, because then only bad people will want to participate in them. If we understand that such institutions can be good, then idealistic people may want to devote their lives to them, and we'll have better people in positions of power and influence.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[shawn]

Eudaimonist:
We need to stop painting certain institutions as inherently bad, because then only bad people will want to participate in them. If we understand that such institutions can be good, then idealistic people may want to devote their lives to them, and we'll have better people in positions of power and influence.

Absolutely.
Gov't has been painted as being a villain by many and true, it has been used to oppress people and has committed many criminal acts.
But it is an institution and as such it cannot be held responsible.
It is the people who drive it that are the ones responsible for its actions.
It is our task as individuals to create JUST forms of government and work at insuring that these institutions do not get hijacked by those who would corrupt it and use it in a criminal fashion.
This is a far more productive angle to approach this issue from IMO.

 

[Radical_Reformer]

Vimalakirti's silence speaks to everyone. Rather than argue, I'll offer my suggestion of a perspective that illuminates other view points.

The Vimalakirti Sutra.

When the various bodhisattvas had finished one by one giving their explanations, they asked Manjushri, "How then does the bodhisattva enter the gate of nondualism?"
Manjushri replied, "To my way of thinking, all dharmas are without words, without explanations, without purport, without cognition, removed from all questions and answers. In this way one may enter the gate of nondualism."
Then Manjushri said to Vimalakirti, "Each of us has given an explanation. Now, sir, it is your turn to speak. How does the boddhisattva enter the gate of nondualism?"
At that time Vimalakirti remained silent and did not speak a word. Manjushri sighed and said, "Excellent, excellent! Not a word, not a syllable -------this truly is to enter the gate of nondualism!"[/CODE]

Very nice thought, Sancho. But what the master did not explain is that before making the decision with "not a word, not a syllable", that he painstakingly examined the options behind the duality and came to his conclusion. That could be the only way to enter the correct gate of nondualism.