The world’s most evil beliefs & the most important issue

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rodgertutt

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The world’s most evil beliefs & the most important issue

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.

http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian) or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist)!!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such insane ideas!
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

Or copy and paste one of the following titles into Google
SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES EBY
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars quoted in
chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Just Google up AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS and enjoy, or click on
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
People are reading this thread? :)

The opinions expressed have a sentiment I can relate to, but I find the posts themselves unreadable. I mean, seriously, who uses Times New Roman font on the web? How many links? Where's the focus, man!
 
I said:
People are reading this thread? :)

The opinions expressed have a sentiment I can relate to, but I find the posts themselves unreadable. I mean, seriously, who uses Times New Roman font on the web? How many links? Where's the focus, man!
Click to expand...

Next time I'll filter it through NOTEPAD.
 
Dondi said:
It's the bane of cut and pasting.
Click to expand...

I am still amazed that humans would worship a god whose behaviour is more evil than any human. I do not believe in such an Evil God as in Calvinism and its equally insane variant, American Fundamentalism.

None of the story makes any sense. Why would someone invent such a dreadfully evil god? War Lords were motivated by using fear of god to make people submissive to the War Lord. For the people who should be expected to reject such an evil god. But religion invented immortality as the reward for submission to this God and his appointed war lord. The Delusion of Immortality is a powerful delusion indeed. This is why believers so violently attack unbelievers because the unbeliever is a symbolic threat to their belief. The very existence of unbelievers leads the submissive believer to begin to have doubts. For the more intelligent believers, the doubts soon unlock the suppressed rational circuits of the brain. Thinking may lead to doubt and inquiry.

Amergin
 
Amergin said:
I am still amazed that humans would worship a god whose behaviour is more evil than any human. I do not believe in such an Evil God as in Calvinism and its equally insane variant, American Fundamentalism.

None of the story makes any sense. Why would someone invent such a dreadfully evil god? War Lords were motivated by using fear of god to make people submissive to the War Lord. For the people who should be expected to reject such an evil god. But religion invented immortality as the reward for submission to this God and his appointed war lord. The Delusion of Immortality is a powerful delusion indeed. This is why believers so violently attack unbelievers because the unbeliever is a symbolic threat to their belief. The very existence of unbelievers leads the submissive believer to begin to have doubts. For the more intelligent believers, the doubts soon unlock the suppressed rational circuits of the brain. Thinking may lead to doubt and inquiry.

Amergin
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Here's a perception of God that I have no problem accepting.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL
evil.html
 
So, I think it's a good idea to talk about the `real' Jesus directly. What does he look like, what would it be like if you met him in the flesh, or at least, in what seemed to be flesh? Or, for that matter, what if it was a vivid, lucid dream experience ... and clearly just as `real' as any other of these sorts of dream experiences which many people have from time to time? Or, perhaps a mystical, meditative sort of encounter?

Such firsthand accounts are of interest to some of us, much more so than theological preaching.

But I would also like to hear, from anyone who gnows, about what Jesus is actually doing these days. Not that I don't already know where to look, at least for some partial gnowledge ... but I know of plenty of accounts of Jesus, both from 2000+ years ago, and from the past 20, which I have gnot yet read. I could easily check out some of these books, and I have one of them in a digital version, but I haven't gotten around to reading it.

Heck, you'd think I would set all other things aside and get right to it, wouldn't you? Well, some folks might ... but I need no further convincing. What I'm curious about, from some of those who are already convinced, is:

What kinda chap do you think Jesus is like - either `then' or now? and -
What do you s'pose he's up, the Jesus of today and of recent decades?
And why? What do these differences mean ... not just for Christianity, but for religion in general, and for the world at large, or for segments of our society greater than a handful of believers scattered here & there?

Once we take this god off the pedestal for a few moments, and consider him as a real individual, wot's he like?

This is the kinda stuff that grabs my attention, and I especially like to know how people have come to their current viewpoints, and how their faith, worldview or belief systems have changed over the years.

More of the same-old, same-old, cut 'n dried, cut 'n pasted, withered theological preaching from the driest, most unimaginative, apologetic minds down the centuries ... is only so much compost, helpful only as the manure out of which NEW Flowers may spring!

Bang the drum, uphold the status quo ... booooring! I would much rather, as someone recently said, get to the heart of the matter, and I do believe there are folks around here who are capable of doing that! They have firsthand experience and insights of various sorts, and good REASONS for believing as they do. That's what interests me ... :)
 
Getting to the heart of the matter

taijasi said:
I would much rather, as someone recently said, get to the heart of the matter,
Click to expand...

GETTING TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER
from a Christian Universalist point of view

My name is Rodger Tutt and I’m 71 years old.

The following information helped me recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown, 1966-78, caused by my inability to love an endless-hell god.

WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER?
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
or
The Law of Circularity

The following is a link to a great introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid Biblical perspective. Highly Recommended!
Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World

Also see
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ
or
Absolute Assurance

Also see
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
Universal Salvation University
and
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained
and
THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
 
Re: Getting to the heart of the matter

rodgertutt said:
GETTING TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER
from a Christian Universalist point of view

My name is Rodger Tutt and I’m 71 years old.

The following information helped me recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown, 1966-78, caused by my inability to love an endless-hell god.

WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER?
Click to expand...

Hello Rodger, I am only a few years younger than you. Despite the nervous breakdown, you seem to be a very clear thinker and see through the smoke and mirrors of Christianity as well as the sloppy fiction of the Bible. I appreciate your posts.

I am a Scot with one Irish Grandmother. Just look at the history of Scotland, Ireland, and even England. See how the negative hate driven Christianity in its multiple pyschopathic personalities have brought two millennia of suffering and death to my ancestors. People have been killing each other in Northern Ireland all in the name of religion. Scotland was torn by brutal wars of the Covenanters, and later by the homicidal maniac Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell then descended like a death plague on Ireland killing up to 2 million people he identified as Catholic. Later in 1846-8, the Irish Holocaust was committed by the English as the potato famine killed another million as the English took the smaller crop and laughed at the Irish starving. Why? The Irish were "Papists." Queen Victoria held no compassion for the Papists.

This led to my arrest for smearing paint on Victoria's statue 40 years ago.

Amergin

Amergin
 
Re: Getting to the heart of the matter

Amergin said:
Hello Rodger, I am only a few years younger than you. Despite the nervous breakdown, you seem to be a very clear thinker and see through the smoke and mirrors of Christianity as well as the sloppy fiction of the Bible. I appreciate your posts.

I am a Scot with one Irish Grandmother. Just look at the history of Scotland, Ireland, and even England. See how the negative hate driven Christianity in its multiple pyschopathic personalities have brought two millennia of suffering and death to my ancestors. People have been killing each other in Northern Ireland all in the name of religion. Scotland was torn by brutal wars of the Covenanters, and later by the homicidal maniac Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell then descended like a death plague on Ireland killing up to 2 million people he identified as Catholic. Later in 1846-8, the Irish Holocaust was committed by the English as the potato famine killed another million as the English took the smaller crop and laughed at the Irish starving. Why? The Irish were "Papists." Queen Victoria held no compassion for the Papists.

This led to my arrest for smearing paint on Victoria's statue 40 years ago.

Amergin

Amergin
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There was a funny cartoon in a local news paper here in Toronto.

Some of the people getting off a plane that had just arrived from Ireland were covered with bandages and were on crutches, the result of fighting between the Irish Protestant Christians, and Irish Catholic Christians.

Someone in the cartoon quipped, "You can sure tell which ones are the Christians." :)
 
Amergin said:
If I look for Jesus in California, Arizona, New Mexico, or Texas; I will undoubtedly find a Mexican American or a Hispanic baseball player.:D

Amergin
Click to expand...
****ers can hit a ball too...and they can field it faster than you can blink...:eek::D
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
just get with Jesus and you'll be fine :)
Click to expand...

Jesus reportedly died in 29 CE. After that death the dead body was lost to real observation. He either was reburied in another tomb, assuming that he factually died. Perhaps he never died on Good Friday, but only temporarily been in shock coma. Then Jesus died in his old age with his 23 great grandchildren.

Whether Jesus died on the cross, or died of old age, or never even lived thus never died.

To get with Jesus is like saying get with President Garfield or Julius Caesar. That is the equivalent of telling me to die.

I suspect that Jesus was a fictional character created by people who had followed other saviours such as Honi, Simon Bar Cochba, Hinara ben Dosi, John the Baptist, or Mithra. Those real historical characters were blended together to make the ideal saviour in a composite fictional man.

As far as Christ is concerned, the Christ Concept was invented many decades or a century after 29 CE by Roman Pagans who had merged Mithra with the fictional Jesus.

Biblical Scholar Gerald Massey lectured on a key discussion called, "The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ."

Amergin
 
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