How do you find faith?

Life is like a buffet, and you won't know what you like or what is good for you until you try each dish for yourself.

With religious matters though there is one huge pitfall, and that is the FACT that religions have been used for social engineering on mass levels for thousands of years to manufacture consent and guide behavior.
So just remember that while you go.

There are lots of headhunters out there who are not going to help you become enlightened, rather they seek to snare people with clever lies that are floated with many snippets of truths to give them validity.
Sometimes they can be very hard to spot as they are very good at what they do and appear very nice and wise.

Trust your heart.
 
Jo,

You said,

"I can't really decide whether I want to approach this from a really analytical kind of view point or if I should kind of hunt and peck and just find one that feels right...."

--> Do both.

"...maybe I'll find one faith that just makes something click."

--> You might, and you might not. Prepare for both possibilities.

"...Nick, are you suggesting I literally keep a "spirituality journal" with what I do and don't like and that maybe having it all written out in black and white will help me discover what I'm really looking for?"

--> I think it is a good idea. You might not need to actually write it down on a piece of paper, but you need to keep track of what new ideas you come across, and whether you accept or reject these new ideas as you come across them. For example, I spent decades searching for the right religion for me. As I went through this search, I came across several relgious principles that I realized were central to my own personal belief system. Once I figured out what my central beliefs were, it became much easier for me to choose a religion.

Which brings us to you. Are there any particular concepts and beliefs that are central to your own personal belief system? Or are you still checking everything out at this time?
 
more unhelpful comments...:p

...

For me I would think looking at this in an analytical tick-box way is likely to result in something shallow, superficial and perhaps inauthentic. As Shawn said, I think it's more a matter of trusting your heart, not totting up scores.

...

Don't restrict yourself to "religions"...by way of example...via one or two books and one or two clued-up people here I recently put my toes into the world of "Continental philosophy". This addresses existentialist questions (the Big Stuff) which is what I think you are talking about. I'm not recommending you get into this particular area I'm just suggesting there's other ways to get a handle on it all.

s.
 
Ok everyone. Thanks for all of your encouragement. I've begun the self-searching stuff, but I haven't yet had the chance to really go dipping into different religions or spirituality stuff. Here's what I know:
I do not believe in God. - I cannot reconcile the logic of the world and all of the terrible things that happen in the world with the idea of one all-knowing benevolent god.
I do not believe in purgatory or hell or the devil - I think I can't believe in these without believing in god.
I do not believe in the divine word of god and therefore cannoth believe in religious books, priests, mosques etc. I can believe in the need for humanity to have these places of worship and a shepard to guide us through the unknown and I cannot fault people for this.
I believe in a soul or an internal essence that is separate from our bodies.
I do not however believe that these essences recycle themselves.
I believe that our souls disperse into the cosmos when we die and that we can talk to those who have left us.
I believe in balance. I believe that you cannot have good without evil, or there would be no point to living.
So by this way of thinking, I believe I can rule out following any of the abrahamic religions as these are all based on the written word of a god i do not believe in. Nor can I follow the ideas of paganism or hinduism or any type of polytheism.
So i'm not really sure where that leaves me. Does anyone know of a type of religion or following that coincides with these beliefs? I haven't found one, though I haven't really searched for terribly long.
 
JoCro313 said:
Ok everyone. Thanks for all of your encouragement. I've begun the self-searching stuff, but I haven't yet had the chance to really go dipping into different religions or spirituality stuff. Here's what I know:
I do not believe in God. - I cannot reconcile the logic of the world and all of the terrible things that happen in the world with the idea of one all-knowing benevolent god.
I do not believe in purgatory or hell or the devil - I think I can't believe in these without believing in god.
I do not believe in the divine word of god and therefore cannoth believe in religious books, priests, mosques etc. I can believe in the need for humanity to have these places of worship and a shepard to guide us through the unknown and I cannot fault people for this.
I believe in a soul or an internal essence that is separate from our bodies.
I do not however believe that these essences recycle themselves.
I believe that our souls disperse into the cosmos when we die and that we can talk to those who have left us.
I believe in balance. I believe that you cannot have good without evil, or there would be no point to living.
So by this way of thinking, I believe I can rule out following any of the abrahamic religions as these are all based on the written word of a god i do not believe in. Nor can I follow the ideas of paganism or hinduism or any type of polytheism.
So i'm not really sure where that leaves me. Does anyone know of a type of religion or following that coincides with these beliefs? I haven't found one, though I haven't really searched for terribly long.
Click to expand...

God is beyond our knowledge and logic any knowledge of him is given by his grace IMO.

You might like Barry Longs teachings ?
 
For me, it was when I was at my most "down".......that i was quite literally sitting at the computer on this website and I verbalized........."Ok God.... what is it you want to show me..........." I received alot of insights into people and their different faiths on this site, and I had been talking to alot of people from all different faiths my entire life.... I was looking........and I could find so many faults in all of them.(not faults in the people, the religions)...(I'm sure you can understand this).
But, from that day on, I started to see beauty in so many things, things i had taken for granted. (the old cliches.. dawn, sunsets....... cool breezes etc) but to me the real cruncher was when I saw these things... I said, aloud. Wow, thank you, that is beautiful, good job!
To some, its a too simple and a little odd. But it works for me.
Hope it helps you
Love the Grey
 
Hi Jo,

You said,

"I believe that our souls disperse into the cosmos when we die and that we can talk to those who have left us."

--> It sounds like the idea of nirvana would fit into your personal belief system, but not the version of nirvana that is curently popular. To me, nirvana means the removal of separateness between you and I. I think this is very similar to your idea that we 'disperse' into the cosmos after we die.

Do you agree?
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Hi Jo,

It sounds like the idea of nirvana would fit into your personal belief system, but not the version of nirvana that is curently popular. To me, nirvana means the removal of separateness between you and I. I think this is very similar to your idea that we 'disperse' into the cosmos after we die.


Do you agree?
Click to expand...


I think I would agree with that. The idea that we all can kind of coexist with each other in harmony, as opposed to the fact that in life we can't seem to be able to do this too well. I think that's my kind of heaven - peace. Not that kind of overly-romanticed crap of all holding hands and singing campfire songs, but the ability to understand intellectually the ideas of those around us and to be able to disagree or agree with them as we will but not have it upset the balance of peace... i'm not sure if that really makes sense.
 
Jo,

It makes perfect sense to me.

I want to clarify my idea of nirvana. I see nirvana as much more that coexisting -- I see it as the removal of separateness between us, which is a whole different thing.

It is said that we cannot think an evil thought in heaven, we cannot do an evil deed in heaven. This idea fits well into my belief system.

By the way, I believe in both heaven and nirvana, and I see no conflict betwen the two ideas.
 
Hi Jo
I've just been catching up on this thread and can't fault anything that people have said. No religion is perfect, don't feel you have to squeeze into something that doesn't fit. You've already made a good start, now think with your heart.

What really is important to you? What lights your fire? Some people like to have a code of conduct to live by. Some prefer to trust their heart. Maybe music is the key to your soul, maybe poetry or someone you love. Many people find inspiration in the beauty of Nature.

Whatever it is, make space for it in your life. Feel the radiance of it, feel the glow. This is what you believe in. This will be your guide. Names are not important. It's not what is in your head that counts, but what is in your heart.

May you find peace and have a beautiful life.

Cliff
 
JoCro313 said:
:confused:
Ok so i've never been one for religion. I'm actually pretty anti-organized religion. But a lot of things have happened in my life and I sometimes find myself envious of those of you out there with faith. I don't want to really go to church, or to be saved or anything like that. But I somtimes kind of feel the need to believe in something, anything. But i have no idea where to start. Any ideas?????
Click to expand...

I was repelled by religion in the 2nd grade when I read the dreadful bible stories (children cartoon motif) with death, torture, killing babies, women, non-human animals, and innocent men because some of them sinned. It was repulsive. There was Noah's Magic Flood, Egyptian plagues, and Sodom-Gomorrah.

I know then, that I was never going to be a Christian. I read about other "faiths," and how purely hearsay and fantasy-like, and evidence-free they ALL were.

I decided God was made up and meaningless to me. Faith seemed to be believing in something with absolutely no evidence. Faith was totally based on believing what someone else says or from a book in which the author is unknown. The content does not make sense

Look at how many thinkers were executed by the inquisition for doubting faith issues that were later debunked by science.


  • 6000 year old Earth
    Humans made in image of God
    Thinking originating in a soul, not the brain
    All animals made by magic 6000 years ago
    Noah's Magic World Flood (2.5 billion cubic Km)
    Virgin born man fathered by immaterial god (DNA?)
    Earth centre of the universe
    Sun rotates around the Earth
    Stars merely small lights not Suns



All I could believe as a kid were things that I could see, feel, examine, or that made sense by scientific criteria, reason, and scepticism.

I do not want to have faith. I want to have truth.

I do not want testimony. I want rational evidence.

I do not want scripture stories. I want knowledge.

Faith promotes hatred and violence. Truth sets you free.

Amergin
 
Amergin said:
All I could believe as a kid were things that I could see, feel, examine, or that made sense by scientific criteria, reason, and scepticism.

I do not want to have faith. I want to have truth.

I do not want testimony. I want rational evidence.

I do not want scripture stories. I want knowledge.

Faith promotes hatred and violence. Truth sets you free.

Amergin
Click to expand...

OK Amergin. What about some of the other things you believe in. Where do things like love, beauty, kindness, generosity, mercy fit in to your science? Because these things are what faith is all about. Yes people have often got it terribly terribly wrong, even scientists and atheists have. All the more reason to stand by what we know to be good.
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
OK Amergin. What about some of the other things you believe in. Where do things like love, beauty, kindness, generosity, mercy fit in to your science? Because these things are what faith is all about. Yes people have often got it terribly terribly wrong, even scientists and atheists have. All the more reason to stand by what we know to be good.
Click to expand...

Good question. I feel that the invention of belief-faith resulted from an evolutionary strong drive to know truth. Learning truth in a prehistoric world enhanced human survival. When the truth was beyond our grasp, we invented religion and gods.

Love, beauty, kindness, generosity, mercy, and the negative qualities of fear, hate, and killing are separate from faith or knowledge. However, they also play a part in human evolution. Love enable male-female bonding that allowed children more time to learn survival skills.

Humans are born with a small brain because our pelvic pathway is too small for an adult brain. This requires children several years of training in survival skills. Mother-father bonding enabled a good environment for raising babies.

Beauty is subjective. It is the appreciation of the appearance of another person. It influences inter-human relationships. One human sees beauty in another gender human that enables love to develop. Beauty has been different according to different cultures. As a result, some ethnic groups look different from others. The brain mechanism of appreciation of beauty is part of the limbic or emotional lobe. Many see beauty in the seashore, others in the Mountains, and still others in grassy planes. Some of this may have something to do with our different ethnic diversions.

All of those subjective "feelings" are strongly tied to the emotional brain and are important in human survival.

We all know that depression is a disabling disorder of "feeling."

Science has nothing to do with degrading those feelings. It is investigating all of them and explaining them. The Human brain is amazing and to me it explains all human behaviour, thinking, and emotions.

Amergin
 
Now you're sounding like Commander Data! :)

If these things were genetic adaptations then everyone would be the same, but we're not. And beauty is not in the appearance, it goes deeper than that. But I'm sure you know that really. We're not like Data, that's the whole point. Truly living is love and laughter and courage and heartache and passion. The rest, machines can do.
 
You might read/watch some lectures given by Eckhart Tolle. He explains God as something within all of us.. that God is found within ourselves, not without. If you are having trouble reading religious dogma.. he may be worth your time.

"Just realize where you come from: this is the essence of wisdom." - The Tao.
 
I'm laughing with joy.

JoCro313 said:
So i'm not really sure where that leaves me. Does anyone know of a type of religion or following that coincides with these beliefs? I haven't found one, though I haven't really searched for terribly long.
Click to expand...

You will find faith in a strong love for something, or a journey to attaining strength, IMO. Sometimes you will get what you wished for.

As others noted, enjoy and observe your surroundings and I hope you enjoy the ride. We are perfectly engineered and the world that we live in is frankly a miracle. Though also filled with lots of man-made disappointments.

(personally I dream of starting Aikido some day you should check the global community out, I enjoy dancing and look forward to dancing with women worldwide, and recently started half-triathlon training. I've got a good grip on golf, nature of systems, sharp shooting and fighting. )
 
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