Quran gives permission to use modern facilities?

[Bhaktajan II]

Quran gives permission to use modern facilities?

Where in the Quran does it give permission to use technology and modern facilities?

Can it not be argued that all muslims should live the stratum/Quality of life ABOVE that of Mohamed the prophet of the 7th Century?

Can it be shown that Islam councils & forbides the modern mode of living, ie.:
A pious Muslim should live without electricity, Radio, television, plumbed water supply, motorcars, ---similar to the way Quakers & Amish demonstrate?

Where in the Quran does it give permission to use technology and modern facilities?

BTW, is not gunpowder composed of dessicated pig dung?

 

[bob x]

BTW, is not gunpowder composed of dessicated pig dung?

Niter (one of the three ingredients of the basic "black power" along with coal and sulfur) can be obtained from any animal waste, nothing special about pigs.

 

[bananabrain]

Where in the Quran does it give permission to use technology and modern facilities?

does the Qur'an have to give permission, in the style of roman/european codes, where "everything is prohibited unless it's specifically permitted" or is it like english common law and halakhah, where "everything is permitted unless it's specifically prohibited"?

i know there are some salafi types that won't use toothbrushes, they use a special twig called a "miswak" (i think), but i don't think that's a general trend - and, besides, i believe they are fond of their 4x4 jeeps.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Muslimwoman]

As BB has said, in Islam everything is halal (allowed) unless it is haram (forbidden) or comes near to haram.

An example would be television. We know zina (sex outside marriage) is haram, so watching porn is haram, watching films with sexual content is haram but watching an educational programme is halal or watching the news to keep up with current affairs is halal. Similarly reading a newspaper is halal but a Muslim wouldn't buy The Sun newspaper because every day they have a topless model on page 3.

An example of coming near to haram is alcohol, which is haram but so is serving alcohol, working in an establishment which sells alcohol or eating food cooked in alcohol. If you work with alcohol you may one day be tempted to try it and by selling or serving it you are allowing others to do something haram.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Thank you muslimwoman for the clarification in your opinion.

As is required of academic discussions:
Please provide the 'Pramana' [scriptural proof] for your opinion of what the Quran Says.

Where is the scriptural proof? Please Cite the Verse numbers.

Vegetarian christains & jews & hindus have often argued that it is best to be vegetarian because it is injoined in the Scriptures, and thus, they cite the Chapter & Verse to show that it is injoined in the Holy Writs.

The Amish, essennes, Trappist Monks, etc show where scripture adivises them to be austere and without modern methods ---this mode of "High Thinking, Simply Living" surely was the status quo in the middle-east.

Again, please provide the Chapter & Verse Numbers where it is advised to make use of complex systems of industrial life so as to reach Allah.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

There is the maxim:
"Live by the sword, Die by the sword"

Who ever in the historty of mankind "made a Living" with a sword [or knife]?

What economy evolved around "making a Living" with a sword?

Man 1: What do you do for a Living?

Man 2: I make a living with a sword . . . can you guess what my customers most request?

Man 1: Hmm? Do you bring home left-overs for your kids?

 

[shawn]

A butcher lives by the sword.
Yet they do not die by it.

 

[c0de]

[edited] sorry wrong thread.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

"Living by the sword**" ---means, "Make a living from".
[**Unless you are referring to marauding and pillaging as an old world mode of living]

A butcher lives by the sword.
Yet they do not die by it.

The Vital Statistics of modern countries are filled with the casualties of Flesh mongering:

Highest Urban Crime Rates are around Burger Vendors [Ref: Book, 'Fast Food Nation'];

Which Countries without refrigeration stockpile meat products? Do they have the highest rates of Heart decease & Crime?

Which reknowned military force is composed of Vegens and vegetarians?

Which reknowned Prison is composed of Vegens and vegetarians?

Karma slaps you in the face ---not offer you a bib.
Karma causing us to linger in the bed we have made for ourselves...in the future course of events.

What goes around comes around ---but lay-abouts hardly notice the inconvienece to their schedule of daily tasks war after war after war after war . . . the cure is right under our nose(s) all the while, while our past generation stocked up their "Bad-Karma"

 

[shawn]

Karma is another faulty doctrine given to us by the Custodians who seek to keep us confused and subjugated.
IMO

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Permit me to translate the Sanskrit word karma here for our dear posterity:

Karma = action(s).

Karma-pala = fruits or results of action(s) [includes both catagories: preferred and not preferred results]

Those that did their (painfull) Home-work gradutated honorably to accrue their due fruits of their (enjoyable) labors. No pain no gain ---vs--- Enjoy now pay later.

 

[Muslimwoman]

As is required of academic discussions:
Please provide the 'Pramana' [scriptural proof] for your opinion of what the Quran Says.

Where is the scriptural proof? Please Cite the Verse numbers.

[SIZE=+3]قُلْ هَلُمَّ شُهَدَاءكُمُ الَّذِينَ يَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ اللّهَ حَرَّمَ هَـذَا فَإِن شَهِدُواْ فَلاَ تَشْهَدْ مَعَهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاء الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِآيَاتِنَا وَالَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالآخِرَةِ وَهُم بِرَبِّهِمْ يَعْدِلُونَ

[/SIZE]
6:150 Say: "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that Allah did forbid so and so." If they bring such witnesses, be not thou amongst them: Nor follow thou the vain desires of such as treat our signs as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter: for they hold others as equal with their Guardian-Lord.

There are two rules based on this:

1. In ibadah (Islamic worship) everything is considered haram unless proven to be halal.

2. In non-ibadah (not related to worship) matters all things are halal unless proven haram.

Not all schools agree on this matter.

There is the maxim:
"Live by the sword, Die by the sword"

and what does this have to do with using modern facilities?

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Ms MW,

A] Yes I asked:
Please provide the "scriptural proof' [chapter and verse]
"to prove that Allah did forbid so and so" ---in the Quran ---regarding "permission to use modern facilities".

But you have not shown the texts here yet.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
B] Regarding, "Live by the sword, Die by the sword**" . . . this has many meanings simultaneous that are all relavant here --sorry for my style of writting-- it refers to: Vegetarianism vs Barbaric polished living; the art of iron-working for the sake of Knives & Swords [except for machettes, maybe] is to cut flesh; "Living by ... " means 'make a living' . . . so, this leads to a society of sword/knives . . . if not then there will be more sophisticated version of the same . . . with the poorest at the end of the food chain.

[** "Live by" = Make a living from; earn livelyhood from; make money from; pay our way in life; bring home the food and water]

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Read Arabic? If yes then check out this scripture.

(Security Agreement and the U.S. elections ...)) - Audarya Fellowship

Please comments on the scripture.
Bhaktajan

 

[Muslimwoman]

"to prove that Allah did forbid so and so" ---in the Quran ---regarding "permission to use modern facilities".

But you have not shown the texts here yet.

I gave you chapter and verse of the Quran on this point and all Muslims must live by this. This is the starting point and from this in order to ascertain whether something is haram or halal we must examine hadith. As each new modern appliance is introduced to society scholars must consult and decide whether anything about the appliance is haram.

You are looking for an easy answer which says "microwaves are forbidden" in the Quran and a complex religion simply doesn't work this way.

B] Regarding, "Live by the sword, Die by the sword**" . . . this has many meanings simultaneous

but you are not explaining why this is relevant to our current conversation. Knives are not a modern appliance, as cavemen used flint knives and spears to gather food and cut things ... including each other.

 

[farhan]

Quran gives permission to use modern facilities?

Where in the Quran does it give permission to use technology and modern facilities?

Can it not be argued that all muslims should live the stratum/Quality of life ABOVE that of Mohamed the prophet of the 7th Century?

Can it be shown that Islam councils & forbides the modern mode of living, ie.:
A pious Muslim should live without electricity, Radio, television, plumbed water supply, motorcars, ---similar to the way Quakers & Amish demonstrate?

Where in the Quran does it give permission to use technology and modern facilities?

BTW, is not gunpowder composed of dessicated pig dung?

Well things were goingon in Arabia, & then came Quran & said this this & this is forbidden (For example gambling adultary & intoxicants), have fun with everything else. This is how Islam is taken today by everybody (almost everybody). Unless anything new goes against explicit prohibitions, its allowed. Technology never goes against Islam, its its use (ethics) which makes it right or wrong. Ethics is a domain of philosophy, not science.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaktajan
B] Regarding, "Live by the sword, Die by the sword**" . . . this has many meanings simultaneous

but you are not explaining why this is relevant to our current conversation. Knives are not a modern appliance, as cavemen used flint knives and spears to gather food and cut things ... including each other.

Homosexuals argue that monkeys & peguins are gay ---so see, It's scientifically natural.

Now you say Cavemen did it so see, It's scientifically natural.


The Ten-Commandments lists among other things:

Thou shall not kill.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Live by a sword die by a sword does not refer to Rape/Pillage/Ransacking ---it refers to killing with a knife so as to Live.

I am a vegetairan ---so while you all seek peace ---you all are being served with tha which you prepared for your sustanence ---so as to have the strength to fight for survival.

Meat eating causes wars and wars are fought for and by those that are filled with lust, passion & anger ---all of which are derived by the Flesh trade.

maybe it shoukld be "Live by a flesh & blood foodstuffs, dies as a flesh & blood foodstuff".

The issue is not peace but insidious viloence that is made to pass as religious enlightenment.

 

[Muslimwoman]

So your issue is with people eating meat? I still don't see what this has to do with the Quran and modern facilities??!!

 

[farhan]

yup, meat eating is ethics, not science

 

[Bhaktajan II]

yup, meat eating is ethics, not science

Manyuk,

Ever heard the term "Factory-Farming"?
Maybe you are certified Doctor or Chemist or Copywrighter for Monsanto ---where health and eating habits [and psychological Behavior] is not related to food.

Maybe you are already affected by eating too much Twinkies?

Ref:
Fast Food Nation
Super-Size Me
Oprah Winfred's Law Suit with the meat Industry.
Childhood Autism as caused by nutrician-less food.
Childhood Obesity as caused by nutrician-less food.
Diabetes as caused by nutrition-less food.
Prison System Overpopulation is caused by nutrition-less food.
Immigrant migration as caused high-priced nutrition-less food & Shelter.
Televised doucmentary of Mud-Cookies for school bound children in Haiti ---followed by Earthquakes so that volunteers can take tax credits to aiding the survivors of the Lust Tropical Realastate.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Just as the Cosmos are composed of Duality --so does the works that we perform also contain the seeds of our desolution.

But the "work" is there --if you don't mind taking your turn in the group experience.