Christian Evangelicals torture and kill children

[Amergin]

Saving Nigeria’s Children

Saving Africa's Witch Children - Sky TV

In some of Nigeria's poorest communities, many thousands of children are being blamed for catastrophes, death and famine, and branded witches.

Dispatches follows the work of Englishman Gary Foxcroft, who has devoted his life to helping these desperate and vulnerable children.

In some regions, evangelical religious fervour is combined with a belief in sorcery and black magic. Denounced as Satan made flesh by powerful pastors, Africa's 'witch children' are abandoned, tortured, starved and murdered: all in the name of Jesus Christ.

Gary's charity, Stepping Stones Nigeria, raises funds to help Sam Itauma, who five years ago, rescued four children accused of witchcraft. He now struggles to care for over 150 in a makeshift shelter and school in the Niger Delta region.

Gary and Sam introduce Dispatches to some of the rescued children who have been through unimaginable horrors. Hospitals refuse to treat children associated with sorcery, so Sam's centre does its best to provide medical aid. As well as the physical scars, the children arrive at the shelter badly traumatised by their experiences, with many of them brain-washed into accepting they are possessed by the devil.

The parents or siblings of children torture them in an attempt to kill them or force confessions from them to admit that they are witches. Mary (14) who was burnt with acid before her mother attempted to bury her alive and Uma Eke (17) who has been left brain-damaged after having a three-inch nail driven into her skull, are just two of the countless children who display the hallmarks of witch-branding.

But as Gary remarks, the children at the shelter are the lucky ones - they're still alive.

The film also features extraordinary access to preachers who exploit desperate parents by charging exorbitant amounts of money in return for exorcising their children's spirits. One preacher calls himself 'The Bishop' who admits to having killed 110 people in the past and claims he has made a fortune by carrying out 'deliverances' on children.

Shocking and tragic, Dispatches reveals the plight of the thousands of innocent children who suffer intolerable cruelty at the hands of so-called Christian pastors.

Amergin: What can I say? 18 centuries of Christian crazies are killing people for witchcraft. Most Christians are more educated or less stupid than those evangelical maniacs. More sadly, these psychotic Fundies are targeting children with the most horrendous torture and painful deaths. Christianity and Islam in the fundamentalistic form is clearly the most deadly disease plaque in world history.

Amergin

 

[Amergin]

It is my view that religions such as Christianity and Islam are mental disorders. Most of the time the believer is just harmlessly and laughably delusional. However, many that we call Fundamentalists continue to believe in an insane form of religion marked by a moronic delusion in demons, Satan, Armageddon, demonic possession, and the right to kill people for "false beliefs," or delusional belief that certain people are demon possessed. These so-called Pastors have the double problem of stupidity and gullibility for crazy belief cults.

I have heard that Christian Pastors abuse children in three ways. Sexual abuse is common even in the USA. Fundamentalist preachers may deny legitimate medical care for a child who goes on to die of treatable meningitis. Diabetic children are killed by withhold insulin. Children die with pneumonia, GI bleeding, brain tumours, brain haemorrhages, and many other treatable diseases, because treatment is forbidden. These superstitious and ignorant people may believe that their irrational beliefs are correct. They are willing to murder children to prove their faith.

They have a right to be stupid and ignorant, but they do not have a right to cause hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocent children. Withholding medical treatment or orchestrating screaming insane exorcisms that may involve physical beating of a poor child.

This makes me extremely angry. I witnessed some horrible incidents during my three years in East Africa. It was so bad, several "Christian pastors" were shot by angry native soldiers. I did not do the shooting, but I admire the brave Africans who did it.

I have not touched on the abuses in Islam. I know it happens but did not have eyewitness news.

Amergin

 

[Saltmeister]

It is my view that religions such as Christianity and Islam are mental disorders.

A religion can never be a mental disorder. Only a person can have a mental disorder.

Most of the time the believer is just harmlessly and laughably delusional.

A person who is delusional is socially out of touch with the community to which they belong. It's relative. The people inside that community don't consider themselves delusional. The reason why you consider it delusional is because you are comparing their behaviour to the rest of human civilisation. Their behaviour isn't compatible with the rest of human civilisation and that is why they are considered delusional.

Is it harmless? A delusion is supposed to be harmful to the community, so the above statement would be pointless if the delusions were harmless.

However, many that we call Fundamentalists continue to believe in an insane form of religion marked by a moronic delusion in demons, Satan, Armageddon, demonic possession, and the right to kill people for "false beliefs," or delusional belief that certain people are demon possessed. These so-called Pastors have the double problem of stupidity and gullibility for crazy belief cults.

What a person considers "delusional" and "stupid" is a matter of opinion. Maybe there aren't demons out there. Maybe there are demons.

There are other examples of humans creating "artificial realities" for convenience, like notions of nationhood, national borders, family, friendship, cultures and subcultures, manhood, womanhood and adulthood. These things are all artificial, created for our emotional stimulation. The reason why we don't want people to be obsessing over demons is because we can't "see" them.

You can draw up national borders on a map. You can register your marriage. You can form cultural values in books and speeches. You can develop concepts of manhood, womanhood and adulthood. All these things involve physically identifiable entities and you can debate them. But you can't attach demons to physically identifiable and measurable entities, and people can disagree on how "demons" work. You can't "sue" God, for example. If you do try to sue God, you have to find an expert on God because God doesn't speak directly to us.

The logic behind the workings of demons is convenient for some but not for others.

I have heard that Christian Pastors abuse children in three ways. Sexual abuse is common even in the USA. Fundamentalist preachers may deny legitimate medical care for a child who goes on to die of treatable meningitis. Diabetic children are killed by withhold insulin. Children die with pneumonia, GI bleeding, brain tumours, brain haemorrhages, and many other treatable diseases, because treatment is forbidden. These superstitious and ignorant people may believe that their irrational beliefs are correct. They are willing to murder children to prove their faith.

It's sad when it happens, but most Christian communities don't even get close to doing this, so why are you ascribing this to the entire Christian collective? You don't even have to obsess over demons to be "Christian." If you think people need to have demons on their mind to be regarded as "Christian," you're wrong.

It was so bad, several "Christian pastors" were shot by angry native soldiers. I did not do the shooting, but I admire the brave Africans who did it.

It sounds like you are condoning murder. Why didn't they just have them arrested?

 

[citizenzen]

It is my view that religions such as Christianity and Islam are mental disorders.

While I share your atheistic viewpoint, I don't share your opinion of these religions.

Here's an analogy...

I have heard people speculate that volcanoes cause more pollution and contribute to global warming than humans. The drama of an explosion is very compelling and it's hard to imagine anything mankind can create is more devastating that the enormous clouds of ash and gas that spew from volcanoes. But the truth (as reported by scientists) is that human pollution of greenhouse gases outweigh volcanoes by 100 to 1.

Like volcanoes, religion's negative impact is more dramatic, compelling and evident than the more subtle positive effects that can be attributed to it. A few explosions and we lose sight of the small moments that occur in millions of peoples lives every day. It is my belief that this steady stream of subtler positive contributions shift the weight in favor of organized religion despite the rumbling and shaking that normally catches our attention.

 

[Dream]

Though I don't think killing is the answer, I do agree everyone would be better off without the ministers of many charismatic evangelical churches. The few good eggs among the ministers are not worth dealing with all of the snakes, but I think that the congregation does not benefit from killing their leaders. The soldiers who tried killing these ministers made a tactical mistake, because it is their pastoral system itself which brings out the mania in the leaders. The congregants are sincere and contribute positively to society; however when they become ministers they have too much authority & often too little preparation for it. Cult authority placed upon an inexperience person launches them into a position where they must necessarily lie all of the time while at the same time having honors heaped on them. I think they lose touch with reality; probably because they no longer have the same boundaries as most people. The end result is commonly very ugly and the person is ruined. (Results may vary.) The soldiers are not trained in how to deal with this situation any more than they are trained to deal with cyber terror.

 

[Marsh]

The few good eggs among the ministers are not worth dealing with all of the snakes...

Are you sure it's not a few snakes among the good eggs?

Newspapers don't sell if they report on average Joe Christian going about his daily routine of loving his family and being kind to others...

 

[Amergin]

Are you sure it's not a few snakes among the good eggs?

Newspapers don't sell if they report on average Joe Christian going about his daily routine of loving his family and being kind to others...

It makes news. The vast majority of child abuse cases in America never makes it to more than a local county newspaper. Only if the head of a huge evangelical organisation like Ted Haggart makes the news. Catholic priests make the news more often as a "group" than the individual offender. Very religious politicians have had a flurry of sexual controversies in the past year. But those in major media are just the tip of the Iceberg.

FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) has a monthly news paper. It devotes two (maybe three) full pages to "Black Collar Crime" 90% being sexual abuse of minors and women. Each page of the two have four columns in small print listing and describing the perversion charged, convicted, and sentenced. The ACLU has a large file of cases of children and adults persecuted for being Jewish, or non-believers. Child unbelievers are widely beaten in schools by Christian school yard bullies. There have been red swastikas painted on school lockers and book bags. A child was suspended for wearing the star of David (deemed a "gang symbol."

Children who refuse to take part in Christian Christmas parties were made to stand the entire time in the hall way of a Southern State.

Much of this is covered up by news agencies fearful of being labeled anti-Christians or other derogatory names.

Yet how often do you hear of a major Ph. D. science or math professor being charged with paedophilia? There are at least half as many scientists as clergymen. Why don't we hear about their perversions. Is the Leftist Media afraid of being called 'Anti-Atheist or Anti-Agnostic? Would not Fox News, a Christian TV network, search for and expose the slightest failings of a science professor like Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, Steven Weinberg, Neil deGrass Tyson, Michio Kaku, Jack Horner, Phil Currie, David Ebert, Vil Ramachandran, and about 100 neuroscientists that I know.

I do no think this disparity is accidental. I believe that very rational brains have a stricter moral compass for intuitive morality. Those with less rational brains, weak sceptical filters, and tendency to believe without question makes for typical Christian Clergymen. It also means that their moral compass may be easily compromised especially among those with the delusion that sins are forgiven.

Why does America's prison system hold only 0.2% Atheists but Atheists are estimated at 5 to 10% of the general population (larger if one estimates closet Atheists? Sweden, Norway, and Denmark are the most secular states (percentages of non-believers) in Europe but their homicide rate is around 1 to 2 per 100,000 compared to 100 or more per 100,000 in America the most Christian nation in the world.

I do not do this simply to troll a forum. I honestly believe that Christianity and Islam are negative religions responsible for more misery, suffering, intolerance, oppression, and death than freethinking.

I am proselytising to free people from the shackles and chains of organised religion. I want no money from you. I don't care if you hate me. I just wish I could lead you toward real mental freedom and happiness.

Amergin

 

[citizenzen]

I don't care if you hate me.

Hate you?

You can't be that bad!

 

[Saltmeister]

It makes news. The vast majority of child abuse cases in America never makes it to more than a local county newspaper. Only if the head of a huge evangelical organisation like Ted Haggart makes the news. Catholic priests make the news more often as a "group" than the individual offender. Very religious politicians have had a flurry of sexual controversies in the past year. But those in major media are just the tip of the Iceberg.

Much of this is covered up by news agencies fearful of being labeled anti-Christians or other derogatory names.

I think there's a more plausible explanation. The people reported in these local newspapers for sexual abuses are not prominent or influential people so there is not much point in reporting them in the mass media. If the local plumber or garbage collector raped a girl in my neighbourhood, how likely would that be reported in the mass media?

The ACLU has a large file of cases of children and adults persecuted for being Jewish, or non-believers. Child unbelievers are widely beaten in schools by Christian school yard bullies. There have been red swastikas painted on school lockers and book bags. A child was suspended for wearing the star of David (deemed a "gang symbol."

Well, it's obviously being reported somewhere, so your conspiracy theories about Christian censorship go out the window.

Yet how often do you hear of a major Ph. D. science or math professor being charged with paedophilia? There are at least half as many scientists as clergymen. Why don't we hear about their perversions. Is the Leftist Media afraid of being called 'Anti-Atheist or Anti-Agnostic? Would not Fox News, a Christian TV network, search for and expose the slightest failings of a science professor like Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, Steven Weinberg, Neil deGrass Tyson, Michio Kaku, Jack Horner, Phil Currie, David Ebert, Vil Ramachandran, and about 100 neuroscientists that I know.

You chose the wrong profession. I am sure that a lot of academics would be religious.

Consider the careers and professions that you often find plagued by sexual scandals and sexual abuse: teachers, politicians and religious leaders. They all have a number of things in common. They provide moral leadership, they all have a reputation and they all involve power and influence that shapes people's minds. Like teachers and politicians, religious and spiritual leaders have a reputation. They have power and authority over others and most importantly, they shape people's minds.

Many of them have an image problem. They have to impress and not disappoint. They have to make an impression on people and leave a legacy behind. Their job is to provide inspiration. Teachers, politicians and religious/spiritual leaders all need to keep people interested in their "moral leadership" and "moral legacy."

University professors do not have this responsibility. They don't give moral leadership, because professors are researchers and educators, not spiritual leaders. This is in contrast with primary and secondary school teachers who have to teach kids to behave, focus on their work, have manners and to respect authority. Primary and secondary school teachers are both educators and spiritual leaders. Professors are just educators. They give people knowledge but also allow their students to think for themselves, because that is what higher education is about. Some professors may teach ethics, but not as part of their "moral leadership." It's a literary pursuit, not a socio-political pursuit so they don't create an image problem for themselves.

Religious leaders often have an image problem, just like teachers and politicians. Power corrupts.

 

[Amergin]

My question is this. Evangelical preachers are attacking people with the charge of witchcraft in Kenya, Nigeria, Sudan, Congo, Mozambique, and some Latin American countries.

Do you not feel the outrage that I do? I know that some of this occurs in the USA, especially the Third World region of the Southern States.

The children are brutalised and killed "in the name of Jesus" saying that Jesus drove out demons as well. Children are not being killed by chaps who go out and dig up dinosaur fossils or dig us human or hominid fossils in Africa.

I believe that none of these children would be brutalised if the perpetrators were not religious with delusional beliefs in demons and a mythical Jesus. The fact that many Christians are not upset is that secretly believe in such superstitious rubbish as demons.

Amergin

 

[citizenzen]

Do you not feel the outrage that I do?

I gave up outrage. It doesn't change things. It only poisons you're own mind.

That doesn't mean I've given up, it just means I've gained a little perspective. People have been brutalizing each other for thousands and thousands of years. While we'd like to think our intelligence would counter our violent, ignorant and fearful nature, it's an agonizingly slow process.

But as bad as it is today, 2,000 years ago it was much worse. And even under those worse conditions some of our greatest sages were able to achieve enlightenment and find peace and salvation. If they were able to do it then, I should be able to do it today. And that's something that can really change the world.

Peace starts with you and me Amergin. And how we touch the world in our daily lives is how we change the world. So I would ask you to not give in to anger and outrage. Find a way to look at the ugliness of humankind and feel compassion, empathy, patience and wisdom. Those are the tools to your salvation and the world's as well.

 

[Marsh]

Do you not feel the outrage that I do?

Yes, I feel outrage when I hear of stories of abuse. When I hear of Catholic priests molesting children and not being punished for it, it makes me angry. Or Pastors or Imams or Buddhist Monks or whatever-- doesn't matter. But I don't think that an Imam who abuses a child is actually a Muslim, nor do I think that a monk who molests a child is actually a Buddhist, nor do I consider any pastor or priest who molests a child to be a Christian.

Anyone who says they're killing in Jesus' name is not a Christian.

Here's the bad news, Amergin: to become a Pastor, you need to get a Master's Degree (typically), and be a member of a denominational church (typically). You don't need God's approval, and there's no litmus test to check what your motives really are.

Why don't you hear about pedophile scientists so much? If you were a pedophile, which would give you more access to children: a church, or a science lab?

In the words of my first year psychology prof, "Correlation does not causation make." (Yeah, I noticed the weird wording too; he did that to etch it into our minds!)

 

[Marsh]

The fact that many Christians are not upset is that secretly believe in such superstitious rubbish as demons.

By the way, you may want to tone down your sweeping generalizations if you want to be taken seriously. Just a thought.

 

[Saltmeister]

Do you not feel the outrage that I do?

Of course I am outraged by what they do, but you are accusing the wrong group of people when finding someone to blame for these crimes. You put the blame on the whole of Christianity. The people who do these things are what I call "fundamentalists." They are people who believe that being a Christians means trying to relive every single concept they can find in the New Testament, including demons when it isn't socially practical. They believe you can't be Christian if you don't regard everything you find in the sacred texts to be "fundamental," hence the name "fundamentalist."

I oppose fundamentalism and what it does. Just don't put the blame on the whole of Christianity.

The children are brutalised and killed "in the name of Jesus" saying that Jesus drove out demons as well.

I believe that none of these children would be brutalised if the perpetrators were not religious with delusional beliefs in demons and a mythical Jesus. The fact that many Christians are not upset is that secretly believe in such superstitious rubbish as demons.

Even the mythical Jesus didn't impose negative stigmas on people with demons. He didn't go around hunting for demons either. He was not a witch-hunter. The people with demons were brought to him and he dealt with them straight away, so there was no need to to keep unnecessary stigmas around. The mythical Jesus wasn't obsessed with demon hunting. He had other important things to do.

Yes, the mythical Jesus did drive out demons, but Christianity isn't about demon hunting. It is about connecting with humanity, both within yourself and in others.

Again, these people you are describing are fundamentalists because they believe they have to act out and live out every single concept they can find in the book, without which they supposedly cannot be Christian. But that isn't socially practical. These people aren't thinking about what it means to be human. No, they are deliberately seeking out these "demons" for sport.

 

[Dream]

Are you sure it's not a few snakes among the good eggs?

Newspapers don't sell if they report on average Joe Christian going about his daily routine of loving his family and being kind to others...

That is a reasonable question. I do not know each person, so I don't know which are snakes and which aren't but I have known some of each. All I mean is the HR department sucks right now. Its like they'll hire anyone with fingers and toes.

 

[Quahom1]

Ya' know, I spent 31 years saving lives for a living (it doesn't pay well, so I must love it alot). But I never thought I was considered a "snake", and I AM a CHRISTIAN. Maybe I made a serious mistake in my choice of career...after all, according to some folk, my goal is to allow death or to cause death to the unfortunate...which means I failed...don't you think?

 

[Dream]

Everybody is connected though. When this is happening with Christians in Africa it is partly the responsibility of Christians everywhere else. A Christian cannot say that its got nothing to do with them. Something has to be done about it.

 

[Marsh]

Everybody is connected though. When this is happening with Christians in Africa it is partly the responsibility of Christians everywhere else. A Christian cannot say that its got nothing to do with them. Something has to be done about it.

With all due respect, that is a big ol' bushel of horse apples, and if this is an intelligent conversation, I shouldn't have to explain why.

 

[immortalitylost]

University professors do not have this responsibility. They don't give moral leadership, because professors are researchers and educators, not spiritual leaders. This is in contrast with primary and secondary school teachers who have to teach kids to behave, focus on their work, have manners and to respect authority. Primary and secondary school teachers are both educators and spiritual leaders. Professors are just educators. They give people knowledge but also allow their students to think for themselves, because that is what higher education is about.

Ok, I apologize in advance for this first part because it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I disagree with the paragraph above.

First of all, teachers should not be responsible for teaching a child to behave, focus on work, have manners and respect authority. Those are jobs for a parent. A teacher is an authority that a child should be tought to respect by their parents--their first and most important teachers-- and in respecting the authority of the teachers, all the rest should follow.

Second, professors are not just educators. They are just as much authority figures as elementary or high school teachers are, if not more so because they are role models who are teaching by example how to be an adult to young people on the very verge of being adults. Their example is just as important as the first grade teacher, if not more so, because a first grader doesn't have the taste of what being an adult might be that a college student does.

College professors let their students think for themselves, yes, but any teacher must first teach their student how to think for themselves, and many professors do just that. That gives any teacher remarkable power, including college professors.

Lastly, I don't know what kind of awesome elementary and high school teachers you had, but mine could in no way be considered spiritual leaders. Most of my teachers throughout my schooling were merely educators, come to think of it. I think only the truly good ones really shape a child's life.

Now to jump back onto the track. Diversion over, lol.

Bottom line is that any person that can justify acts such as that in the original post by the scripture or beliefs of any religion has an almost complete lack of knowledge of the religion they represent.

Just because someone says they represent a particular religion does not make it so. They may believe that they do, but it's by a persons acts, not their words, that people represent their beliefs.

Religions are a very complex system of beliefs, and in areas with poor education the common person must have faith in the local leaders of that religion to explain their religion to them. Think of someone who can't read trying to understand any religious text. That necessary faith in religious leaders is almost always where the problem lies, as it is in these circumstances that a malicious person can come in, assume a role that grants them power, and mislead people that have no other frame of reference to guide them.

It's happened over and over throughout time. You want it to stop happening? Educate the people. Once they realize how their pastors have betrayed them, well, you get the point. The soldiers wouldn't have to shoot them at any rate.

I definitely believe that education is the cure for this kind of problem. People who can think for themselves will not trust their thinking to others. These kind of cults (and I don't refer to the original religions when saying cults, but the warping of those religions) rely on uneducated and easily manipulated people to join them.

The thing you have to remember, is that unintelligent or maliciously manipulative people can join a religion and misshape it through their misunderstanding or power seeking, but that does reflect on the religion. It reflects on the person. And it in no way means that any particular religion creates unintelligent or maliciously manipulative people through it's teachings. Religious texts can't teach people that haven't already been taught enough to be able to study and understand it. Teach the people how to think for themselves, and you wouldn't have these problems.

Education is the answer, I tell you!

 

[shawn]

immortalitylost:
Education is the answer, I tell you!

I agree, but whose education?
Someone will be "in charge" of the curriculum and the goals and the agenda of the institution of learning.
There's the rub.
How can the ignorant "know" when they are being taught biased things?
How can the ignorant spot a counterfeit from the real?
How can the ignorant know when some key point has been selectively forgotten or downplayed?

So it sounds good to say "education is the answer", and idealistically that is correct, but we live in a world which is far from the ideal, so how does this apply in our world of practicality?