Amergin
Well-Known Member
The death and resurrection are a major problem. I realise that about 16 other god-men died and resurrected before Jesus, so the theme was popular. But looking at it as a realist, we have three possibilities.
1. Jesus died on the cross. Blood flow to his brain ceased. Within a few hours his neuronal nuclei began to die off. If blood was not restored in 3 hours he suffered permanent brain cell loss. Brain cells undergo apoptosis, nuclei fragment, and cells first swell when the mitochondria run out of energy, the K+/Na+ pump has failed. Then the cell breaks down. But by 36 hours the brain is turning into a thick mush with circuits and neuronal generators gone. The grey-white junction is gone. If Jesus died, he couldn't have possibly resurrected because even if his muscles still partially contracted, his brain was mush and incapable of conscious awareness, thinking, reasoning, memory, or moving his limbs.
Pathologic changes within the neuropil follow the metabolic abnormalities. One of the first effects is cytotoxic oedema that results from failure of the Na/K ion pump. Early on, this stage is still reversible, but only in terms of minutes at room temperature. Soon Calcium ion channels fail and Ca++ influx kills the neurons. Prolonged ischemia leads to cell death and coagulation necrosis of the vessels. After 3-6 hours of ischemia, irreversible damage occurs to the capillary endothelium. Recovery never happens in documented brain death by medical criteria.
One must postulate magic and big time magic. God would have to rebuild his billion or more neurons, 10 billion astrocytes/glia, many billions of axons, and trillions of synaptic connections in one human brain. They comprise many millions of circuits, circuits overlapping into supercircuits, and networks, a million billion synapses, and a number of neurochemical receptors in the trillions. That would be a horrendous magic trick. If God COULD do that, why did he not heal the relatively minor wrist and ankle wounds?
2. Jesus did not die on the cross. He was on the cross very briefly (few hours) then went into shock. Dusk at Passover required his quick burial. He was not even given the usual anointing and washings. We know that because the women were going to do that on Sunday Morning. If Jesus did suffer brain anoxia and if it lasted 3-5 hours he would be really totally dead. But he was taken down within three hours. Fluid had accumulated in his legs (oedema) and abdomen (ascites) as he went into cardiogenic shock and autonomic postural hypotensive shock. His pulse and heart beat may have been undetectable. A piercing of the abdomen would have released ascitic fluid of congestive heart failure along with some blood. The gospel reports this.
Then once down, he was placed in a horizontal position. Blood perfusion and perfusive blood pressure would have recovered. Some lung ventilation could return as the downward pull of the diaphragm was relieved. Lying horizontal may require 6 or more hours of reperfusion of the brain for him to wake up. That may well have occurred in the tomb. Then he gradually stabilised.
In 38 hours he was up and about. Perhaps he then pushed the boulder enough to roll it back. The rocks used were of two types: most common was a small cubical rock maybe 50 Kg that could be pushed out. The other was basically a stone wheel that sat in a stone groove. Archaeologists verify this. It did not require super strength to get the stone wheel rolling down to open the small tomb opening. After all a woman, Mary Magdalene was going to remove the stone to enter the tomb to anoint Jesus with oils.
He then walked out. He had not resurrected but recovered from shock. This occurrence is well known in the history of many particular hospitals. Each has its own story. During the mass English reburials when grave space was taking too much room, coffins were opened and bones removed. But scratch marks were supposedly found on 25% of the coffin lids. That sounds like an exaggeration but it surely did happen.
3. Jesus never was crucified. He may have died of stoning to death as Jesus Ben Pandira 150 years BC. Or Jesus may have retired to an olive farm and died of old age with his loving great grandchildren attending him. And his followers maintained a cult of Judaism based on his teachings (Ebionites). However, a foreigner, Saul of Tarsus, mythologized him and started a new Roman Pagan religion based on Jesus using the borrowed (plagiarised) biography of Mithra for that of Jesus.
To further test my hypothesis, see my followup post.
Amergin
1. Jesus died on the cross. Blood flow to his brain ceased. Within a few hours his neuronal nuclei began to die off. If blood was not restored in 3 hours he suffered permanent brain cell loss. Brain cells undergo apoptosis, nuclei fragment, and cells first swell when the mitochondria run out of energy, the K+/Na+ pump has failed. Then the cell breaks down. But by 36 hours the brain is turning into a thick mush with circuits and neuronal generators gone. The grey-white junction is gone. If Jesus died, he couldn't have possibly resurrected because even if his muscles still partially contracted, his brain was mush and incapable of conscious awareness, thinking, reasoning, memory, or moving his limbs.
Pathologic changes within the neuropil follow the metabolic abnormalities. One of the first effects is cytotoxic oedema that results from failure of the Na/K ion pump. Early on, this stage is still reversible, but only in terms of minutes at room temperature. Soon Calcium ion channels fail and Ca++ influx kills the neurons. Prolonged ischemia leads to cell death and coagulation necrosis of the vessels. After 3-6 hours of ischemia, irreversible damage occurs to the capillary endothelium. Recovery never happens in documented brain death by medical criteria.
One must postulate magic and big time magic. God would have to rebuild his billion or more neurons, 10 billion astrocytes/glia, many billions of axons, and trillions of synaptic connections in one human brain. They comprise many millions of circuits, circuits overlapping into supercircuits, and networks, a million billion synapses, and a number of neurochemical receptors in the trillions. That would be a horrendous magic trick. If God COULD do that, why did he not heal the relatively minor wrist and ankle wounds?
2. Jesus did not die on the cross. He was on the cross very briefly (few hours) then went into shock. Dusk at Passover required his quick burial. He was not even given the usual anointing and washings. We know that because the women were going to do that on Sunday Morning. If Jesus did suffer brain anoxia and if it lasted 3-5 hours he would be really totally dead. But he was taken down within three hours. Fluid had accumulated in his legs (oedema) and abdomen (ascites) as he went into cardiogenic shock and autonomic postural hypotensive shock. His pulse and heart beat may have been undetectable. A piercing of the abdomen would have released ascitic fluid of congestive heart failure along with some blood. The gospel reports this.
Then once down, he was placed in a horizontal position. Blood perfusion and perfusive blood pressure would have recovered. Some lung ventilation could return as the downward pull of the diaphragm was relieved. Lying horizontal may require 6 or more hours of reperfusion of the brain for him to wake up. That may well have occurred in the tomb. Then he gradually stabilised.
In 38 hours he was up and about. Perhaps he then pushed the boulder enough to roll it back. The rocks used were of two types: most common was a small cubical rock maybe 50 Kg that could be pushed out. The other was basically a stone wheel that sat in a stone groove. Archaeologists verify this. It did not require super strength to get the stone wheel rolling down to open the small tomb opening. After all a woman, Mary Magdalene was going to remove the stone to enter the tomb to anoint Jesus with oils.
He then walked out. He had not resurrected but recovered from shock. This occurrence is well known in the history of many particular hospitals. Each has its own story. During the mass English reburials when grave space was taking too much room, coffins were opened and bones removed. But scratch marks were supposedly found on 25% of the coffin lids. That sounds like an exaggeration but it surely did happen.
3. Jesus never was crucified. He may have died of stoning to death as Jesus Ben Pandira 150 years BC. Or Jesus may have retired to an olive farm and died of old age with his loving great grandchildren attending him. And his followers maintained a cult of Judaism based on his teachings (Ebionites). However, a foreigner, Saul of Tarsus, mythologized him and started a new Roman Pagan religion based on Jesus using the borrowed (plagiarised) biography of Mithra for that of Jesus.
To further test my hypothesis, see my followup post.
Amergin
