Anti Islam rant goes wrong

[Muslimwoman]

I came across a blog post about the Quran and comments with the usual anti-Islam rot on it but found this one particularly funny so thought I would share.

I read the post, with the usual misquoted and half quoted verses of the Quran and then went on to read the comments and found this:

kevin // Jul 24, 2009 at 1:25 pm You opened my eyes Wingless. It didn’t take me long to find more murderous verses like these (extracts from 13:6 to 13:10) :
“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter…entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods (beside Allah)…you should not consent to him, nor hearken unto him; neither your eye pity him, neither you conceal him…but you shall surely kill him; your hands shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people….And you shall stone him with stones, that he die; because he sought to thrust you away from Allah…”
And from the same sura (13:15 to 13:17) teaching how to fight wars: “You should smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, …gather all the spoil of it in the middle of its street, and burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for Allah your God, it shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.”


I sat there puzzled ... I thought "see this is how propaganda about Islam happens, these verses are totally fabricated but people will read them and believe it".



I scrolled down and found this:


kevin // Aug 31, 2009 at 6:20 am Ameera: I am sorry I was looking at the “wrong” book. The verses I mentioned are actually taken from Deuteronomy (13:6 to 13:17)
http://wingless.aoriginality.com/?p=16

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

lol prejudice is blinds our reasoning i suppose.

however muslims themselves generate such a poor image of islam that they really need no help from anyone else in this respect.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

iconic images such as these speak volumes

 

[Muslimwoman]

Agree completely, some Muslims do enough damage to Islam without help. However there are millions and millions of peaceful Muslims who show the true face of Islam but of course they don't make the news and when they rarely do they get shouted down by non-Muslims and radical Muslims alike saying they are apologists or Western puppets .. non-Muslims really need to get with the programme here and start supporting peaceful Muslims if the radicals are to be kept at bay!!

I just found it funny that these verses were used to show how vile and violent the Quran is .. woops

 

[Amica]

OMG--the "translation" is hillarious. But you know, those people who are fed these propaganda lies against the Noble Qur'an are so dumb that they will never do objective research themselves. They would accept what is offered to them by the islam-haters because their religions (i.e. Catholic) forbids them to investigate other religion.

 

[Amica]

Dumb, even though they are given reason. Blind, despite having eyes. Deaf, despite being able to speak. So says the Noble Qur'an of those who choose not to think when asked, who choose to reject the Truth despite being presented with it.

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

You have it backwards Muslimwoman: "non-Muslims really need to get with the programme here and start supporting peaceful Muslims.."

Instead peaceful Muslims need to get courageous and support non-Muslims & reject jihadists - loudly, publically and often.

Like this group: http://www.libforall.org/home.html

 

[iBrian]

We say the onus is on peaceful muslims, but that kind of presumes they have responsiblity for what other people, they have nothing to do with, are doing.

Anyone remember when Britain used to fear Christian Terrorists in the form of the IRA and UDA? Yet I don't seem to recall it being stated that it was the responsibility of British Christians to stand up and denounce them. Instead, we saw the cultural difference, the uniquely Irish political undercurrents that shamed the opposing sides of Christian vs Christian. We could understand or at least appreciate the cultural forces that shaped the situation.

Perhaps it is more because we do not understand Muslim cultures properly - having insisted everyone be British, rather than understand the cultures the British ruled over and brought into Britain through mass immigration from Commonwealth countries - that perhaps belies the real problem, and reason why it has become such a heightened concern: that British, and other European countries, have spent so long being ignorant of the peoples they tied to themselves, that now in their ignorance, they fail to understand there is a difference between a normal muslim and a radicalised one.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

the difference between peaceful and non peaceful muslims is very small just insult the prophet and see !

as for comparing it to northern island, totally different IMO

as for the future i can see real problems in this country, although i hope that i am wrong on this, i forsee a future a bit like israel and palestine in some parts of the country like west yorkshire for example.

 

[17th Angel]

A few misquotes or half quotes from a few people.... Do not cancel out (invalidate) The many many more that are against it and why they are.

TEA: I will never accept and imagine such a place. I imagine us islam free and always will

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

Brian: We say the onus is on peaceful muslims, but that kind of presumes they have responsiblity for what other people, they have nothing to do with, are doing.

Curious point. So those who are Muslims "have nothing to do with" other Muslims and thus are free of responsibility? That means, following your logic, that non-Muslims, who have even less than "nothing" to do with Muslims, are also free of responsibility.

Sounds like no one is their brother's keeper and the problem can only be solved by divine intervention.

Nonsense.

 

[Muslimwoman]

Instead peaceful Muslims need to get courageous and support non-Muslims & reject jihadists - loudly, publically and often.

You seem to have missed the point and then go on to perfectly demonstrate what I am talking about ....

Like this group: LibForAll Foundation - Promoting the Culture of Liberty and Tolerance Worldwide - Home

You are supporting LibforAll and their work in trying to deradicalise extremist thinkers. You made the choice to support peaceful Muslims (as part of a group) instead of going with the "look what these crazy Muslims believe/do/think".

If more people would make that choice it would give a stage to peaceful voices and create a climate of working together to understand each other instead of constant fear and propaganda. The more support peaceful Muslims receive the more likely they are to feel brave enough to speak publicly, loudly and often. If those voices are constantly met with hatred from both sides then why should they bother?

the difference between peaceful and non peaceful muslims is very small just insult the prophet and see !

That is starting to sound bigoted Tea. I am Muslim and if you insulted the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) I would be insulted, annoyed and even perhaps call you names if I was in a bad mood but your comment suggests that I would take to the streets calling for your death ... because that's what Muslims do!!!!!

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

Muslimwoman: You are supporting LibforAll and their work in trying to deradicalise extremist thinkers. You made the choice to support peaceful Muslims (as part of a group) instead of going with the "look what these crazy Muslims believe/do/think".

Not so, I do not support LibforAll. I posted LibforAll as one place for the peaceful Muslim majority to work from.

By the way if you are the majority, why cower in fear of the Jihadists and wait for support from non-Muslims?

Why bother? If my Buddhism developed a warring, terrorist group I would be working to stop them - whether others helped, encouraged or not.

"Why bother" suggests peaceful Muslims would rather see innocents slaughtered than defend true Islam and risk danger for themselves.

 

[Muslimwoman]

By the way if you are the majority, why cower in fear of the Jihadists and wait for support from non-Muslims?

I don't wait for support from non-Muslims, I simply think that if the non-Muslim world wants to deradicalise Islamic groups then it needs to engage with the Muslim world in a positive way.

Why bother? If my Buddhism developed a warring, terrorist group I would be working to stop them - whether others helped, encouraged or not.

and would you feel morally and physically responsible for any attrocities they carried out in Buddha's name, even though it goes against his teaching? If so how would you go about reaching these people on the other side of the world and getting them to listen to you?

"Why bother" suggests peaceful Muslims would rather see innocents slaughtered than defend true Islam and risk danger for themselves.

Nice attempt at sensationalism, ever thought of a media career?

Look at the website you posted the link to and read the story of Nasr Hamid Abu-Zayd.

He was welcomed in the Netherlands and his work toward tolerence continued. Let's imagine for a moment that the Muslim world acted as they did toward him and then the Western world spewed the hate filled bigotry we see in the original post above ... would he have been either able or inclined to continue?

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

Originally Posted by Skull
"Why bother" suggests peaceful Muslims would rather see innocents slaughtered than defend true Islam and risk danger for themselves.

Muslimwoman: Nice attempt at sensationalism, ever thought of a media career?

I was and am being serious and you banter & on the other thread profess boredom.

Perhaps the religion of complacency, rather than peace, is your cuppa tea. No wonder the fanatics of Islam have an almost carte blanche from the sleepy majority.

 

[iBrian]

Skull, I take it you are vehemently active in protesting against US terror aggression across the world, then?

Or are violent fanatics simply someone else's problem?

 

[Nicholas Weeks]

Skull, I take it you are vehemently active in protesting against US terror aggression across the world, then?

Or are violent fanatics simply someone else's problem?

I do what I can, but not as much as I should - without "vehemence" though. Hatred never ceases from hatred, as Buddha put it.

Of course I reject the equating of US combat and Jihadist terrorism.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

MW,

You said,

"non-Muslims really need to get with the programme here and start supporting peaceful Muslims if the radicals are to be kept at bay!!"

--> I think there is another way of looking at it. Everyone must be free to choose which causes they will support and which ones they do not have time for. I am reminded of a Jewish couple who were once at a dinner party and started berating everyone there for not getting emotional about the Holocast. I know of native Hawaiians at this very moment who are very vocal and downright demanding that all of us start standing up for the right of native Hawaiians to rise up and take their land back from the white man. One of my favorite causes is that 1,000 children in the world die from hunger every hour, yet I do not hear anyone here demanding that we all work harder to stop children from starving to death around the world.

We have to be free to pick and choose which causes we will actively support, rather than having people tell us which causes we must and must not support. There are just too many causes.

 

[Dream]

This is interesting thread. I'll comment on a recent post and then the opening post.

I don't wait for support from non-Muslims, I simply think that if the non-Muslim world wants to deradicalise Islamic groups then it needs to engage with the Muslim world in a positive way.

I understand this from my own experience trying to get along with coworkers that had a lot of prejudice against Christians. They had been negatively affected by things the Republicans did or by money-grubbing liars calling themselves TV Evangelists, or by friends and family, or because they 'Grew up Christian'. They were worried that I was there to convert them, and they thought an alien would jump out of my chest at any given moment.

and would you feel morally and physically responsible for any attrocities they carried out in Buddha's name, even though it goes against his teaching? If so how would you go about reaching these people on the other side of the world and getting them to listen to you?

When a tree falls in the forest and no Buddhists are present, does it still make a crashing sound? I like the Buddhists that I have met, but I do not see how one can say confidently 'I would do differently' 'I would do better'.

He was welcomed in the Netherlands and his work toward tolerence continued. Let's imagine for a moment that the Muslim world acted as they did toward him and then the Western world spewed the hate filled bigotry we see in the original post above ... would he have been either able or inclined to continue?

The world in some small measure wants to see things work out for Muslims but has its own ideas about how that should happen. You seem to hate yourselves when you drink or when you sin in general. I hope you do not hate yourselves, because that is the thing that would undo you. I think you can handle the scorn of the world. You seem to hold the crushing responsibility for the world's woes upon your shoulders, and while that is admirable it is too much. Its just far too immense and wonderful, like the human body is too immense and wonderful. Sometimes medicine and anesthetic helps, but the creation has to heal itself.

kevin // Aug 31, 2009 at 6:20 am Ameera: I am sorry I was looking at the “wrong” book. The verses I mentioned are actually taken from Deuteronomy (13:6 to 13:17)

I remember a boss of mine that had never read a book in their lives had made an exception in order to read Dan Brown's blockbuster. They spent 20 minutes trying to explain to me that Constantine had personally invented Christianity. They had become experts, and I was the one who was uneducated.

 

[iBrian]

Of course I reject the equating of US combat and Jihadist terrorism.

Hm, my reading of your previous posts were that it was the responsibility of Muslims to actively condemn and destroy extremism, or else accept association with it.

Which is obviously a silly brush to tar people with.

Hence the reply as to whether you accept that you should be tarred with the same brush in terms of US aggression.