Muslims Against NYC Mosque Location

[Quahom1]

Wow and yet I can't as each community of Muslims I have encountered is very different.

Does this mud explain why you included Jews being expelled from Jerusalem in your comments about the first Crusades? The Crusading armies began slaughtering communities of Jews in Germany and continued to do so through Europe, the Med region and even in Jerusalem itself, where the Jewish community had taken refuge from the Crusaders and were burnt alive when the Crusaders set fire to the synagogue with everyone inside.

You do read some strange history books Q.

You would be amazed at what I've read. And the difference between you and I is that I am on the outside looking in. In other words, an infidel is treated as an infidel no matter what community he goes to. Perhaps some communities are a bit more refined and polite, but the underlying thought is still prevelant..."outsider/lost soul".

As far as the "crusades" campaign against others than Islam, I fail to see the relevance to this thread. Perhaps a segue into another issue pertaining to the "Christians", which I think might be best served being discussed on the Christian forum.

v/r

Q

 

[c0de]

You would be amazed at what I've read. And the difference between you and I is that I am on the outside looking in. In other words, an infidel is treated as an infidel no matter what community he goes to. Perhaps some communities are a bit more refined and polite, but the underlying thought is still prevelant..."outsider/lost soul".

1. "infidel" is a 15th century Christian word.
2. how many Muslim communities have you gone to?
3. as if the "lost soul" outlook is completely absent in Christians?

 

[Muslimwoman]

As far as the "crusades" campaign against others than Islam, I fail to see the relevance to this thread.

Hi Q

the relevence is your post on page 1 of this thread :

Actually in 1099, Fatimid Caliphate expelled all Christians and Jews from Jerusalem, which started the Crusades.

I was refuting that statement.

I think I can speak about Islam and those who follow it a bit more accurately then those who only read about it.

then you say

You would be amazed at what I've read.

Excellent .. so can you tell me whether the Friday lecture in mosques can be read in the common language of the followers or must it first be read in Arabic and then translated?

 

[Quahom1]

Hi Q

the relevence is your post on page 1 of this thread :



I was refuting that statement.



then you say



Excellent .. so can you tell me whether the Friday lecture in mosques can be read in the common language of the followers or must it first be read in Arabic and then translated?

It must be read and spoken in Arabic, because in Arabic one can not lie.

Anything else (in any other language), can be a lie. Arabic is the only true version of the Q'uran. Anything else is a corruption, regardless of how sincere the translator's intentions are...

Consequently if I ask you in Arabic what you think of me, your answer in Arabic must be the truth.

(How do you see me?)
?كيف ترون مني

 

[Quahom1]

1. "infidel" is a 15th century Christian word.
2. how many Muslim communities have you gone to?
3. as if the "lost soul" outlook is completely absent in Christians?

1. Yet Suddam H. loved using it to describe the west, as does the president of Iran, and the Princes of the House of Saud.

2. How many have I lived in, for a significant length of time? Three. One for over 18 years.

3. I don't think non-Christians are "lost souls" Code. You've got the wrong "jerk" in your sights...

 

[Muslimwoman]

It must be read and spoken in Arabic, because in Arabic one can not lie.

Anything else (in any other language), can be a lie. Arabic is the only true version of the Q'uran. Anything else is a corruption, regardless of how sincere the translator's intentions are...

Consequently if I ask you in Arabic what you think of me, your answer in Arabic must be the truth.

(How do you see me?)
?كيف ترون مني

Hi Q

Your answer is both right and wrong ... and this isn't even a contentious issue. My question to you was to demonstrate a point ... that not all Muslims, despite following the same faith, are or think alike. So if I, as a Muslim, cannot state what all Muslims believe or think or how they act then perhaps it is time for you to think twice about your ability to do so?

The Late Sheikh Jad Al-Haqq `Ali Jad Al-Haqq, the former grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, states:

“The Hanifi school of fiqh (jurisprudence) state that it is permissible to deliver the khutbah in a language other than Arabic whether the audience are Arabs or not.

However, the majority of Muslim jurists hold the opinion that one of the conditions of Friday khutbah is that it should be given in Arabic.

The Maliki school of fiqh affirms that the khutbah is to be given in Arabic, and it is not permissible to be delivered in a language other than Arabic, even if the audience are non-Arabs.

The Hanbali school of fiqh, however, holds that if the preacher knows Arabic, then it is a must that the khutbah is in Arabic. If the preacher does not know Arabic, then he is allowed to give it in any other language which he masters whether the audience are Arabs or not. The Qur’anic verses in both cases, however, have to be recited in Arabic.

The Shafi`i school of fiqh bases is of the opinion that one of the conditions of the Friday sermon is that it should be delivered in Arabic. This would be the case if the audience are Arabs. If they are not, then it is not a condition to say it in Arabic. The imam can speak in his language, but the Qur’anic verses have to be recited in Arabic.

I see that since the aim of the Friday sermon is to admonish people, then the opinion of Abu Hanifah should take priority. It goes more with the nature and aim of the congregation.

If one likes to follow the opinion of the majority of the jurists, another alternative can be suggested. The imam can give the two parts of the Friday khutbah, followed by a translation for each in the language of the audience.”

Read more: Delivering the Friday Sermon in a Language Other than Arabic - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

 

[Quahom1]

Hi Q

Your answer is both right and wrong ... and this isn't even a contentious issue. My question to you was to demonstrate a point ... that not all Muslims, despite following the same faith, are or think alike. So if I, as a Muslim, cannot state what all Muslims believe or think or how they act then perhaps it is time for you to think twice about your ability to do so?

The Late Sheikh Jad Al-Haqq `Ali Jad Al-Haqq, the former grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, states: ​

“The Hanifi school of fiqh (jurisprudence) state that it is permissible to deliver the khutbah in a language other than Arabic whether the audience are Arabs or not. ​

However, the majority of Muslim jurists hold the opinion that one of the conditions of Friday khutbah is that it should be given in Arabic. ​

The Maliki school of fiqh affirms that the khutbah is to be given in Arabic, and it is not permissible to be delivered in a language other than Arabic, even if the audience are non-Arabs. ​

The Hanbali school of fiqh, however, holds that if the preacher knows Arabic, then it is a must that the khutbah is in Arabic. If the preacher does not know Arabic, then he is allowed to give it in any other language which he masters whether the audience are Arabs or not. The Qur’anic verses in both cases, however, have to be recited in Arabic. ​

The Shafi`i school of fiqh bases is of the opinion that one of the conditions of the Friday sermon is that it should be delivered in Arabic. This would be the case if the audience are Arabs. If they are not, then it is not a condition to say it in Arabic. The imam can speak in his language, but the Qur’anic verses have to be recited in Arabic. ​

I see that since the aim of the Friday sermon is to admonish people, then the opinion of Abu Hanifah should take priority. It goes more with the nature and aim of the congregation. ​

If one likes to follow the opinion of the majority of the jurists, another alternative can be suggested. The imam can give the two parts of the Friday khutbah, followed by a translation for each in the language of the audience.” ​

Read more: Delivering the Friday Sermon in a Language Other than Arabic - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

My dear lady,

You know nothing about where I grew up. You never saw five boys beating on one, and even though he beat them all, more came...

There was nothing fair about the fights. That's where I learned to fight dirty...any way to win.

And they were Arabs and Muslims who hated white western Christians (except for the girls, they expected to give in to them).

And even though you are a military veteran, you have not been around the world like me.

So hear me when I say, there are those in Islam who want everyone else that is not in Islam either conformed, or dead.

And "they" are not the small minority you attempt to claim them to be.

I have no problem with Islam, no problem with Arabs, no problem with Muslims. What I do have a problem with is, people who think that because I'm Christian, I don't know what I'm talking about pertaining to Islam.

I am dead right on what I said in the previous post.

And I can historically prove it.

(I know, I know, past performance does not guarantee future prospects), but there is something to be said for the past performance...

 

[Muslimwoman]

You know nothing about where I grew up. You never saw five boys beating on one, and even though he beat them all, more came...

I am genuinely sorry that you had a fearful, unpleasant and no doubt defining experience with Muslims as you were growing up.

You have yet to answer my question though, how many different communities of Muslims (ie from different cultural backgrounds) have you spent time with?

And even though you are a military veteran, you have not been around the world like me.

That is quite an assumption on your part .... shall we play the how many countries have you lived in game? However, even if you are more widely traveled than I am does it give you some sort of authority to be able to speak for what Muslims believe or do?

So hear me when I say, there are those in Islam who want everyone else that is not in Islam either conformed, or dead.

Of course there are such people, just as there are such people in Christian groups but would say those Christian extremists are the absolute voice of Christianity?

And "they" are not the small minority you attempt to claim them to be.

OK let us assume for a moment that you are right, a vast majority of Muslims in the world today are violent by nature or education and want everyone to convert or die. Given that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims throughout the world we would have to assume this massive jihad to force conversions or kill anyone who will not convert would leave a bit of a tell tale sign right across the globe, rather than sporadic violent acts by certain groups ... so now you can provide evidence of this systematic and massive attack or planned attack on anyone not Muslim.

I have no problem with Islam, no problem with Arabs, no problem with Muslims.

Given your posts on this forum I do not believe that for a second.

What I do have a problem with is, people who think that because I'm Christian, I don't know what I'm talking about pertaining to Islam.

It's not about being Christian, there is nothing to stop any Christian from learning about another faith .. it's about your attitude which suggests whatever you say must be right and anyone who disagrees, even if they are Muslim or an Islamic scholar, must be wrong ... as we are about to see.

I am dead right on what I said in the previous post.

And I can historically prove it.

I just gave you the official opinion of the four Sunni schools (who didn't just pop up yesterday) and yet you know better than they do ... sounds like arrogance to me but I will be happy to look at your evidence and will apologise profusely if you can prove the 4 schools are wrong.

 

[c0de]

Yet Suddam H. loved using it to describe the west, as does the president of Iran, and the Princes of the House of Saud.

Yea, they're using Christian terminology. "Infidel" is your word.

I don't think non-Christians are "lost souls" Code. You've got the wrong "jerk" in your sights...

I don't think you're a "jerk" at all.

I have a healthy respect for you Q.

Although, some of your views are a little... you know.

Here's a few examples:

You know nothing about where I grew up. You never saw five boys beating on one, and even though he beat them all, more came...

And what does that prove?

You think I didn't experience hatred when I moved to North America in '97 ?

And FYI: Black people experience the most crap from everyone by the way.

So for you, a white male, to be complaining about this stuff, is a joke.

So hear me when I say, there are those in Islam who want everyone else that is not in Islam either conformed, or dead.

And "they" are not the small minority you attempt to claim them to be.

This is just ridiculous Q...

Most middle class Muslims in Muslim societies (I can speak personally for Pakistan) want nothing more to conform to WESTERN standards. They're "brainwashed with Rock & Rap" as the song goes. This is the globalized world Q. I don't know what decade you're on about, but you need to update your outlook.

I have no problem with Islam, no problem with Arabs, no problem with Muslims. What I do have a problem with is, people who think that because I'm Christian, I don't know what I'm talking about pertaining to Islam.

Q, you're knowledge on Islam and Muslims is very fallible. Just last month or something you claimed it were the Muslims who started the Crusades !!

I mean come on dude...

It must be read and spoken in Arabic, because in Arabic one can not lie.

Anything else (in any other language), can be a lie. Arabic is the only true version of the Q'uran. Anything else is a corruption, regardless of how sincere the translator's intentions are...

That's a little absurd, especially considering the complexities of Arabic.

Besides, if this was true, you'd think the Arabs alone would have some monopoly on the understanding of the Quran (yet they don't).