Does the barcode have something to do with the mark of the Beast?

[Quahom1]

Despite all of the efforts that have been made, few politicians actually believe that a world-wide government is possible. The countries are all very different and don't want to live under the same laws. Kings and Treaties try to unite countries, but kings and treaties are like flowers that wither. "For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed...."(James 1:11) That is why diplomacy always fails -- why it makes treaties of peace and breaks them. It is symbolized elsewhere in the Bible as a weak staff that we lean on, which breaks and skewers us. This is how the Beast continually deceives us for periods of time, we worship, and it breaks faith with us. Sometimes it is a king and sometimes a country. A Christian's hope is not in diplomacy, not in who gets elected president next. We can still vote and serve, but our hope is in other methods

Hello,
Just want to quote one verse out of Revelation:

"And God hath put it in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled." Revelation 17:17

There are other verses that go along with this. My question to you, Dream, is who do YOU say these kings are?

Actualy, many politicians talk about the "new world order". They want to put it back how it was before the tower of Babel was destroyed. The world is getting closer to it. Just recently they developed the Euro. Europe has the whole world mapped into different sections all under Europe. They want to see the world become one and they've already got us mapped out. There will be no more United states but one big America, from what I've heard.

Doesn't the Bible also say this does not have to happen? I can think of two incidents immediately, one of which was the Ninevites, who repented, and were spared destruction by God...the other is King Hezekiah...

 

[Quietwoman]

wasn't the term anti-christ invented by religious nuts to inject fear into the masses,

No, I don't think so. Why would we have to invent such a term anyway? Antichrists have been in this world since the beginning of time: Starting with Cain. We don't need to invent anything. Just a quick review of history would tell you there are many antichrists in the world.

religion has been demonising occult symbols and beings for a good while now
I agree with this. Even the symbol of the cross and the statue of the virgin and baby started long before in Egypt and Persia. Yet we worship them today and bow down to them and wear the stupid thing around our necks as if it would cast off any evil or protect us in some way.

to talk of evil deeds etc, just gives life to that stream. all that matters is extinguishing my own hell fire...The Bible warns against repeating an evil word. But think of this: Had we not heard of Hitler and seen the horrible things he had done in Europe would we have believed it? If we had not seen 911 on television would we be over there fighting right now? There is something about evil that provokes men to stop it.

was the dead bird on my doorstep a witches curse or a cat, does my neighbour "grow" chickens for eggs and meat or for sacrificial devil worship. where does truth end and paranoia begin...my own personal experience has lead to me believe that these fixed points do move and at different rates depending on the individual. People do things for different reasons. Before I came to God I was in the occult. It facinated me, but I did not want to burn in hell so I repented and came to God. Those things were real that I experienced but so is Christianity. But I'm not looking for the supernatural-other than being raised from the dead after I die or seeing someone healed. Basicaly, I just want to be saved both from myself (the beast that is within) and from the beast that is in the world.

you know coeliac or severe gluten intolerance is associated paranoid schoezophrenia and i can attest that if i eat gluten it would be a witch that put that dead bird on my doorstep and absolutely no-one could make me believe otherwise, cos i knew!!! no gluten and then it's a cat lol...bringing me a pressie cos i cool Not sure what a "pressie" is here.

i like this quote: "Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms..."

Only Jesus will bring lasting peace to this world. As long as it is ruled by sinful man you will continue to have wars, hate, crime, etc... Basicaly all of this is the result of breaking the highest commandment: "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Wouldn't the world be a better place if eveybody did this?

point being, i think, is that each of us own a little hitler. inventing anti-christs just allows us to pass responsibilty for this UNHOLY mess elsewhere. we each have a barcode mentality. the only action is putting out the fire in your own house, this affects the whole of mankind and cos you went by boat the rest'll go by jet, but no, let's burn and pontificate...
True, oursinful nature is against God. That is why Paul said, "Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" But we don't have to be bound by sin. Jesus' mission on earth was to bring salvation: both in the here and now and for the future also. That is why scriptures say: "He that is dead is freed from sin." "I die daily" "If ye live after the flesh ye shall die, but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"


i remember reading the story/account of how following the end of the ww2, 100,000 german women were raped by russian soldiers, so my thought was, was nazism as a state of mind, defeated? i think not...

I agree. Neither do I think it was correct for America to attack Iraack after 911. Not every "Christian" has God's holy commandment written on their hearts (love your neighbor as yourself) and whole nations especially don't.

my government/friends etc want to avert my and their own attention to the "terrorist" in another country who apparently wants to kill me...i'm more concerned with the terrorist that lives on every street corner and subtlely in my heart....a priest or parent who says do this or burn is a terrorist in my view and hence "the beast" within.... Not necessarily the "beast within" but part of the bigger beast without. There are many facets to this Beast, both terroism and false Christianity among them. No one should force another to believe. Any religion should be one's own choosing. This is why we had the protestant reformation. People just wanted to choose what they wanted to believe and didn't want the Pope or anybody telling them what to believe.

i'm left wondering also, if you really believe this or just wanna prick folks attention. one world government sounds pretty cool to me as nationalism like religion is another source of division in the world....flippin poxy rag, flags...barf, wouldn't wipe my derriere with the likes of...

It is true that nationalism is another form of division, but so is race and religion and many other things. Why can't we just be divided in certain areas ; be individuals and still get along? I don't know.

lets put our own fires out eh?! lets tame the beast within...enough endless chickening out andf laying blame elsewhere, we're profoundly sick and completely unawares of our own travesty...

Why don't we overcome both? True we have a beast within, but let's not ignore the obvious that is happening all around us? Why not kill two birds with one stone? We can overcome both with Christ.

Rhonda

 

[Dogbrain]

Wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe I don't want to wait until our kids are pleding allegiance to the one world flag to realize duhhh, I was told about this one world government that was coming 40 years ago, but I was too stupid to believe it. Get a brain or something. If the barcode has three sixes and there putting it on the food the next step is they'll be putting it on people. Maybe the barcode thing is a myth, maybe not. I don't know but I do know this someday, probably in the not too distant future they WILL be marking people.

Q

Which specific barcodes "have three sixes", list them, please. You're now spouting a bunch of stuff made up by men who only use God as a way to con the gullible and fearful. You are doing exactly what Scripture warns us not to do. You are being misled by false prophets only care for their own profit.

 

[chakraman]

hi rhonda, thanks for your friendly reply...we seem to disagree on everything and agree...

i'll just take up this one point and praps that'll cover them all:

jason: lets put our own fires out eh?! lets tame the beast within...enough endless chickening out andf laying blame elsewhere, we're profoundly sick and completely unawares of our own travesty...

rhonda: Why don't we overcome both? True we have a beast within, but let's not ignore the obvious that is happening all around us? Why not kill two birds with one stone? We can overcome both with Christ.

this is the fundamental difference between you and i, to me the beast within x 6 billion = this unholy mess of a world we live in. there is no seperation, we are practically as guilty as hitler.

if hitler = 1
you and i = 2
then an enlightened master like
jesus or buddha = infinity

hence there's very little difference until you are completely without self....

war is a multiplication of the conflict in each and everyones life...no one but you or i can remove that conflict...be nice if jesus could but sadly i think not...

"In oneself lies the whole world and if you know how to look and learn, the door is there and the key is in your hand. Nobody on earth can give you either the key or the door to open, except yourself..." j krishnamurti...

there's good and bad occult as well, like anything...anyway, think you're pretty immovable on all this, if i may say...praps i am to...we are the beast, you and i, if we change, everything changes, like a domino rally...externalising it, is just a way to fall asleep on our own inner work so we can point the finger...

 

[Dream]

Hello,
Just want to quote one verse out of Revelation:

"And God hath put it in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled." Revelation 17:17

There are other verses that go along with this. My question to you, Dream, is who do YOU say these kings are?

Thank you, Quietwoman. I'm sorry for this long post, but I think of it as a gift even if it is a drudgery to read. I guess you could just skim it. That's what I do for long posts. Also, Qahom has made a very good point and I'm curious what you will say to it.

Responding to your thought-provoking question: For the moment, I'd say these ten kings represent all kings and king-like things. Going back five verses it says "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."(17:12) The fact that there are ten suggests that it is talking about multiple kings, not a specific number. There have already been myriad kings since the writing of Revelation. (Alexander, Caesar, Emperors, Napoleon, etc.). I also suggest the verse is talking about the entirety of all kings, politicians, things like that. These have power for a short time, but then wither away like 1-hour-flowers. "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."(Daniel 7:12) Kings in the long run are useless and small. Like weeds, during their short time they try to sap our resolve. They don't understand us and try to deceive us into believing they can create peace on earth, but they can't. Time after time they accuse us of evil and attack us for not worshiping them; but someday our cause will be upheld. Time is one of the weapons by which the Beast will be destroyed.

"Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High..." (Daniel 7:9). Comparing that verse to ones in the NT, in Christianeese this statement is rendered "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."(ICor 18:28) The two statements may sound different, but they are talking about the exact same accomplishment. Corinthians says until all of Jesus enemies are subdued under his feet, he will not return and give the kingdom up to God. That is also the time when the Ancient of days gives judgment in favor of the saints in Daniel.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty for pulling down strongholds." "We wrestle against the principalities and powers and the rulers of darkness of this present age."(paraphrased)

Farewell!
Dream

 

[Dogbrain]

wasn't the term anti-christ invented by religious nuts to inject fear into the masses, think they even borrowed the nature spirit known as pan, with his hooves and horns, to bare this label.

I'll be kind and presume that you are merely naive and not perversely ignorant.

The term "anti-christ" or "antichrist" or "Antichrist" appears in the Bible. It usually means "someone who denies Christ". That is, literally "against Christ". That's it. However, in the New Testament, a "man of Lawlessness" is mentioned as a specifically influential "antichrist". It is conventional to refer to him as "the Antichrist", although he is actually only the culmination of a very long string of many antichrists.

i like also steiner's notion, that darkened beings are actually sacrificing themselves so that we can learn through their evil.

That's nothing but a childish cop-out. Murderers, child molesters, rapists? Hey! They're all SACRIFICING THEMSELVES FOR OUR SAKE!! Rubbish. I'll not admire a child molester for "sacrificing himself" to "teach" me something. You can admire child molesters all you like. I'm not enlightened enough to look up to child molesters like you propose we do.

i like this quote: "Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."

one world government sounds pretty cool to me as nationalism like religion is another source of division in the world

Please prove that a one-world government would and could not also be nationalistic. One-world government: No competition for ideas. No competition for information. No competition for political theories. Only the one way is tolerated by government. Dissent and die. No possibility to escape. No possibility to find refuge. No asylum. No appeal. No hope.

The only real limit upon the tyranny of a government is the fear that another government will have the power and will to interfere with that tyranny, for selfish or selfless reasons does not matter.

People who yearn for one-world government, if that government is administered by fallible beings, yearn for tyranny without end, without limit, without hope. They yearn to be slaves.

 

[chakraman]

flippin eck, take a chill pill dude...

that maybe one meaning of anti'christ eh???

make a good point bout the steiner notion tho, i accept that....though praps this page from a book may explain it clearer:

It is when your spirit goes wandering upon the wind,
That you, alone and unguarded, commit a wrong unto others and therefore unto yourself.
And for that wrong committed must you knock and wait a while unheeded at the gate of the blessed.


Like the ocean is your god-self;
It remains for ever undefiled.
And like the ether it lifts but the winged. Even like the sun is your god-self;
It knows not the ways of the mole nor seeks it the holes of the serpent.
But your god-self dwells not alone in your being.
Much in you is still man, and much in you is not yet man,
But a shapeless pigmy that walks asleep in the mist searching for its own awakening.
And of the man in you would I now speak.
For it is he and not your god-self nor the pigmy in the mist, that knows crime and the punishment of crime.


Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world.
But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you,
So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.
And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,
So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.
Like a procession you walk together towards your god-self.
You are the way and the wayfarers.
And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone.


And this also, though the word lie heavy upon your hearts:
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.
Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,
And still more often the condemned is the burden bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the white are woven together.
And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth, and he shall examine the loom also.


If any of you would bring to judgment the unfaithful wife,
Let him also weigh the heart of her husband in scales, and measure his soul with measurements.
And let him who would lash the offender look unto the spirit of the offended.
And if any of you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the ax unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;
And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful and the fruitless, all entwined together in the silent heart of the earth.
And you judges who would be just,
What judgment pronounce you upon him who though honest in the flesh yet is a thief in spirit?
What penalty lay you upon him who slays in the flesh yet is himself slain in the spirit?
And how prosecute you him who in action is a deceiver and an oppressor,
Yet who also is aggrieved and outraged?


And how shall you punish those whose remorse is already greater than their misdeeds?
Is not remorse the justice which is administered by that very law which you would fain serve?
Yet you cannot lay remorse upon the innocent nor lift it from the heart of the guilty.
Unbidden shall it call in the night, that men may wake and gaze upon themselves.
And you who would understand justice, how shall you unless you look upon all deeds in the fullness of light?
Only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man standing in twilight between the night of his pigmy-self and the day of his god-self,
And that the corner-stone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation.

as for all who have sinned etc, i need look no further than your comment style for the hitler within all of us eh...talk about aggressive...go spit yer hate elsewhere yeah...or we can try and form some kind of relationship and talk things over and maybe get to the bottom of this mess...or is it interactive conflict you crave and need??? peace...

 

[chakraman]

verbal abuser...

 

[Quietwoman]

Doesn't the Bible also say this does not have to happen? I can think of two incidents immediately, one of which was the Ninevites, who repented, and were spared destruction by God...the other is King Hezekiah...

The people in Revelation (the majority) DO NOT repent, but there will be a great multitude from all nations, kindreds, and tongues that will be saved. Not everyone will follow with the beast system some will be beheaded for the faith others will remain faithful and come out of the great tribulation. And ALL Israel will be saved when Jesus comes back and they see who their Messiah is and reallize they had been blinded. That's what I remember from what I've read.

 

[Dogbrain]

flippin eck, take a chill pill dude.

Don't post obvious nonsense.

 

[Dogbrain]

The people in Revelation (the majority) DO NOT repent, but there will be a great multitude from all nations, kindreds, and tongues that will be saved. Not everyone will follow with the beast system some will be beheaded for the faith others will remain faithful and come out of the great tribulation. And ALL Israel will be saved when Jesus comes back and they see who their Messiah is and reallize they had been blinded. That's what I remember from what I've read.

Why don't you just pick up a handy Bible, that you keep always out and available, and check, instead of trying to do it all from memory?

 

[shawn]

It is a very unwise thing to have all the nations divided.
If those who seek to unite humanity can ever cobble together a system which will actually be just and fair, then a global republic (or whatever) would be a good thing.
Currently, the motives and the character of the ones pushing this forward are suspect.
With good cause.
But, to stay divided just creates possibilities for conflict which we cannot afford.
But we don't want to live in a police state either.
So, an interesting and important issue it is.

 

[Dogbrain]

It is a very unwise thing to have all the nations divided.
If those who seek to unite humanity can ever cobble together a system which will actually be just and fair

If I can cobble together a system to flap my arms and fly, I will save a lot on airline tickets, too!

But we don't want to live in a police state either.
So, an interesting and important issue it is.

The more power a state has, the more inevitable will be its descent into a police state. If there is no entity outside a state that can lay out a smackdown, then the state will ultimately have no limits on its power.

Look at the excesses under the regime of George Bush the lesser. His advisers were men like Wolfowitz, who came up with the "Wolfowitz Doctrine". This was a political manifesto that said that the 21st century would see the emergence of the USA as the "sole superpower". When no nation was presumed to have the power to bitch-slap the USA, then the US government did not have to care what anybody thought of them.

ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE LIKE THIS. The ONLY thing that ultimately keeps government in check is fear. Governments are not innately moral. Governments are not innately just. They are only just to the extent that they are FORCED to be just, and they will constantly try to find ways to evade any and all restrictions on their power.

Name a single government that has not done this. Name a single government that either simply does not honor individual rights or tries to evade honoring individual rights.

 

[Quahom1]

If I can cobble together a system to flap my arms and fly, I will save a lot on airline tickets, too!



The more power a state has, the more inevitable will be its descent into a police state. If there is no entity outside a state that can lay out a smackdown, then the state will ultimately have no limits on its power.

Look at the excesses under the regime of George Bush the lesser. His advisers were men like Wolfowitz, who came up with the "Wolfowitz Doctrine". This was a political manifesto that said that the 21st century would see the emergence of the USA as the "sole superpower". When no nation was presumed to have the power to bitch-slap the USA, then the US government did not have to care what anybody thought of them.

ALL GOVERNMENTS ARE LIKE THIS. The ONLY thing that ultimately keeps government in check is fear. Governments are not innately moral. Governments are not innately just. They are only just to the extent that they are FORCED to be just, and they will constantly try to find ways to evade any and all restrictions on their power.

Name a single government that has not done this. Name a single government that either simply does not honor individual rights or tries to evade honoring individual rights.

You are talking about the mindset of the representitives in the government, not the system itself I presume. It isn't the office in a governement that is potentially benificent, malevolent or indifferent, but the butt planted in the seat in that office...

 

[Dogbrain]

You are talking about the mindset of the representitives in the government, not the system itself I presume. It isn't the office in a governement that is potentially benificent, malevolent or indifferent, but the butt planted in the seat in that office...

Until you can guarantee, the butt planted in the seat will ALWAYS be virtuous and conscientious, it is foolish, childish, and outright stupid to automatically trust government.

 

[Quahom1]

Until you can guarantee, the butt planted in the seat will ALWAYS be virtuous and conscientious, it is foolish, childish, and outright stupid to automatically trust government.

I didn't guarantee anything DB. I was making an observation.

 

[Quietwoman]

Why don't you just pick up a handy Bible, that you keep always out and available, and check, instead of trying to do it all from memory?

Oh, but I have a very good memory on most of this-and I'm already here at a friend''s house and my Bible is at home.

RhondaRenay