I have a question concerning Jesus.....

If I am standing in front of the IBM headquarters building, and a fellow employee unknowingly asks, "is this your building, do you own the building?"
Then I reply, "this building is NOT MY OWN, but it belongs to The ONE WHO EMPLOYS ME" this would clarify to the person asking that I am not the owner, i am just one of the workers.
I do not own the building(universe) the one I work for owns it

If I am at a gathering at a friends house, and a fellow guest unknowingly says "Is this your house?" I would reply "This is not my house but it is the house of the one who invited me"
this also would clarify to the fellow guest that again, I am not the owner of the house.

Jesus spoke in these terms repeatedly. Where does Jesus say that he is God?
 
Here's a carsh course on who Jesus is, and the Godhead (Trinity).

Jesus sais he was God. Note: John 8:57-59

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Notice how the Jews picked up stones to kill him because he made himself to be the same I am that spoke to Moses.

The Bible says Jesus is God. Note: John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice that the Bible says the word was with God, and was God, and then the word became flesh.

Philippians 2:5-8 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross.

The Godhead (Trinity)

God exists as a triune God. He has manifested himself in 3 different ways to relate to mankind. The Father is not the Son, or the Holy Spirit.Each person in the Godhead exist as the one same God, but as a seperate personality in the Godhead. If any one of the 3 persons was missing, there would be no God. God the father is a spirit. No man has seen him an lived. Mankind sined, and needed a perfect sacrifice (the sacrifices used by animals in the OT times was a precursa of God's coming Lamb). Jesus, who is God in human skin, is the lamb of God. He is the perfect sinless lamb that washes away the sins of the world. He came, and taught men to ONLY follow him, and by doing that, we would get to the father (God). Again, Jesus talked about the father. When Jesus left, he said he would send us the Comforter - the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes, he does comfort. But, beyond that, he testifies of Jesus being the truth. So there we have it - a really quick crash course of the Trinity. The Father sent his Son who came as a man to relate to mankind, and directed their attention to the father. Then, after the Son was gone, he sent the Holy Spirit, that proved the Son was telling the truth - that through the Son only, will we get to the father.

Perfect harmony!
 
bruce said:
Now I'm a Jehovah Witness and I know "we" witnesses understand that people don't understand us because of the way we look at the bible.At one time I was a Baptist now forget about what church you belong and what you believe just look at this one verse and tell me what Jesus is saying in this verse.KJ 1611 edtion.John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her,touch me not for I am not yet accended to my Father ; but go to my brethen, and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my God, and your God."Now by looking at what that verse says it tells me that Jesus's father is our father and that Jesus's God is our God.I can't see it any other way.It doesn't say Jesus is God or Jesus is our father it says Jesus's father is our father and Jesus's God is our God.This is from the King James 1611 edition and not The New World Translation of the Holy Scripitues.That verse is as simple as it gets and please I do not mean to offend or preach.
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None taken. And welcome to CR ;) If we take one passage, and build a world around it, what a small world we would have, no? We must take the Bible's entirety into context in order to get the big picture. There are so many points in the Bible that give us the ability to see the whole, not just in part.

For example: I am my father's son. I am also he, and he is in me. I have been told I am my father, a chip off the old block. Which of these are true, which are false, and what does it matter?

I guess the main theme of the NT is that "Jesus" Saves. Sticking to a "minor" point of contention seems to be a waste of energy and time (let alone bruised feelings and frustration).

that is my two cents.

v/r

Q
 
Jesus is the Visible image of the Invisible God. Whoever sees him, has seen the father. No, no, Jesus isnt the father. But, he is God. The Godhead is so simple to understand, I dont see how people dont understand it. If we look at the Bible as a whole, we'll see God saying it clear as day. The OT for example, tells of who God was going to deal with sin, and the NT reveals how he did it. How did he do it? He made himself the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. This was the plan of God all along, to redeem that which was lost. This plan began BEFORE we was actually lost - before man sined - before Lucifer sined. This is God's way of fixing what he knew was going to be broken. It took perfect blood to do that, because there is NO remittion of sins without blood. Think about this for a moment:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface. Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Gen.1:1-3

That "light" could not have been the sun, moon, and stars. Why? Because they werent made until the 4th day. What was that light? Well, Jesus himself said that he is the light of the world.

Could it be true? Did God seperate himself way before anything was made, to fix what he knew would occure? Could the Word that "was with God", and the word that "is God," be the same word that came flesh, and dwelled among us?
 
According to the Bible, God the Father is invisible, and no man can see God in his Glory and live. Scriptures also go on to say that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.
 
Conscience said:
Jesus is the Visible image of the Invisible God. Whoever sees him, has seen the father. No, no, Jesus isnt the father. But, he is God. The Godhead is so simple to understand, I dont see how people dont understand it. If we look at the Bible as a whole, we'll see God saying it clear as day. The OT for example, tells of who God was going to deal with sin, and the NT reveals how he did it. How did he do it? He made himself the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. This was the plan of God all along, to redeem that which was lost. This plan began BEFORE we was actually lost - before man sined - before Lucifer sined. This is God's way of fixing what he knew was going to be broken. It took perfect blood to do that, because there is NO remittion of sins without blood. Think about this for a moment:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface. Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Gen.1:1-3

That "light" could not have been the sun, moon, and stars. Why? Because they werent made until the 4th day. What was that light? Well, Jesus himself said that he is the light of the world.

Could it be true? Did God seperate himself way before anything was made, to fix what he knew would occure? Could the Word that "was with God", and the word that "is God," be the same word that came flesh, and dwelled among us?
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Well, actually, the Godhead, the Trinity, is not easy to understand. In fact I don't think there is a single person on earth who "understands" it. Three distinct yet One in God? No, this is not something you wrap your mind around. Perhaps the heart has a chance...that's why it is called a Mystery.

lunamoth
 
I guess. But, I personally believe that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that he is part of a triune God.
 
I agree with Luna, I've never been able to understand the Trinity even though I've been studying this Triune concept all my known life! sheesh. It actually drove me away from Christianity for awhile till I learned there were OTHER concepts out there, maybe like Jesus was the Son of God. ;)
 
Another more subtle reason for rejecting the Trinity is because so many thousands of followers of those OTHER christian churches who taught Jesus was God's son, were usually tortured and stoned to death just because they didn't agree with the ALLMIGHTY TRINITY, and not because they were any real threat to Trinitarian Churches. That tells me there's a more subtle meaning behind this Trinitarian ideology. Something like controlling society through religious submission. ;)

The elite Trinitarians themselves didn't even care about their own society at times. Some popes went so far as to say "Kill them all, God himself will know who is Trinitarian and who is not." So you folks actually trust the founding fathers of the Trinitarian churches? UNREAL!....
 
OK, well I don't reject the Trinity. I accept the Mystery and as I pray about it I continue to find layers of meaning in It. But should this be something that divides Christians? I don't think so. To persecute other Christians? Absolutely not. No one understands God in His Fullness. I think, in the end, all words and models fall short.

lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
OK, well I don't reject the Trinity. I accept the Mystery and as I pray about it I continue to find layers of meaning in It. But should this be something that divides Christians? I don't think so. To persecute other Christians? Absolutely not. No one understands God in His Fullness. I think, in the end, all words and models fall short.

lunamoth
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This one doctrine alone has been the justification for massive violence, suffering and death inflicted on Christians. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other about the "trinity", because it doesn't matter.

But, it saddens me to think of the brutal torture that so many endured and hundreds of thousands of parentless children that resulted from our inability to see anything but the most insignificant differences between us.
 
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Abogado del Diablo said:
This one doctrine alone has been the justification for massive violence, suffering and death inflicted on Christians. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other, because it doesn't matter.

But, it saddens me to think of the brutal torture that so many endured and hundreds of thousands of parentless children that resulted from our inability to see anything but the most insignificant differences between us.
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Yup. At the end of the day anything done in the name of God that is not love is blasphemy.

peace,
lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
OK, well I don't reject the Trinity. I accept the Mystery and as I pray about it I continue to find layers of meaning in It. But should this be something that divides Christians? I don't think so. To persecute other Christians? Absolutely not. No one understands God in His Fullness. I think, in the end, all words and models fall short.

lunamoth
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i am totally with you on this Luna & I dont think anyone should have to feel they should reject it just because someone else does not see it that way. I feel if it is something my brothers & sisters in Christ believe, I support them and love them & it should not bring divisions. It does not deny Jesus in his place with a relationship to the Godhead according to the scriptures, or any of the attributes that Jesus has in authority.:)

I think often people feel some kind of dull pain when someone does not see it the same way, but I have tried to let go of that pain & understand there must be a reason for why people see it the way they do.

Then I have wondered, if there is truth in what everyone is seeing.
 
lunamoth said:
No one understands God in His Fullness. I think, in the end, all words and models fall short.
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Yep. And I entirely agree with you all- doctrinal differences should not result in persecution or aggressiveness towards one another. I think it is healthy that we discuss these matters, if only to strengthen our own faith and gain different perspectives. But no resolution is necessary- we are called to love above all.
 
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