The ignorance of burning the Qur'an

[The Undecided]

To suggest burning the Qur'an on the anniversary of 9/11 is ignorant and fool-hardy. To also call a book evil is ludicrous. Pastor Terry Jones seems to have conveniently forgotten the many terrible atrocities committed in the name of Christianity throughout our history. We wouldn't refer to the Bible as evil. It is actions which are evil, perhaps even the people doing those action too. But the Qur'an has given thousands of people the impetus to be kind, generous and deeply spiritual. Any religious text has the capacity to be interpreted for the good and the bad. What Pastor Jones is doing is using hate to fight hate, and this can only lead to more hate. I will be praying for all on both sides of the religious and cultural divide, and for there to be one world, not many distrusting and warring tribes.

"Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden."
Qur'an; Chapter 4, Verse 85

TU

 

[shawn]

The muzzies in times past have had no problems burning any non-muslim texts so despite it being a stupid idea it is kind of fitting.

But stupid fundamentalist extremists will probably do something horrible to retaliate and it will undoubtedly unleash a nasty war with millions of dead.
Isn't religion just freaking wonderful.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well, it does help to fill out a slow summer news cycle.

Chris

 

[The Undecided]

Muzzies? "Isn't religion just freaking wonderful." Shawn you sound some what bitter about religion. Are you atheist or just anti-religion?

To me religion is not the problem. Deciding that yours is the only correct religion and attacking others for having a different religion is the problem. Religion is used as an excuse to be incredibly ****ty to each other, as well as the scape-goat when lives are lost and it all goes bad. We need an inclusive society, without the divisions. We are one people and one world.

TU

 

[Dogbrain]

"I believe in God, but I don't believe that my belief is in any way true." Anything else would be adopting a religion that deems itself to be "the only correct religion" in some way or another.

 

[chakraman]

pastor is silly for threatening the burning and any muslim who reacts is just as silly billy. no difference between them...just a bunch of pages anyway...

praps some high up army general is like right, favour for the war against islam is waning, we need a media storm to whip up the masses etc...i know a pastor...

of course it's prolly not that, but without a muslim reaction to what might have happened, there would only have been a bitter religious nut...there all equally guilty...no bully without the victim and vice versa...

i wonder vif he was ever gonna follow though...doubt it, didn't need to, had the same affect...prolly would of got into legal trouble had he done it publicly...wonder if burners of the american flag get arrested (that's of course if media reports of such are true)...

 

[shawn]

Muzzies? "Isn't religion just freaking wonderful." Shawn you sound some what bitter about religion. Are you atheist or just anti-religion?

To me religion is not the problem. Deciding that yours is the only correct religion and attacking others for having a different religion is the problem. Religion is used as an excuse to be incredibly ****ty to each other, as well as the scape-goat when lives are lost and it all goes bad. We need an inclusive society, without the divisions. We are one people and one world.

TU

I am becoming somewhat bitter(perhaps it would be more accurate to say exasperated) at times regarding how religion is used to keep people divided.
How people in some religions feel they are somehow "above" criticism as they are adherents to the "True and proper" religion (which is a total crock).

It is beginning to sound like scrapping all religions is the most intelligent thing humans can do.
Sure, we would probably find new reasons to fight each other, but then again, maybe it would be reduced.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Let us just be content to know We've been there/Done It/and Got the T-shirt.

Isn't that enough?

What other memorabilia is there to shroud ourselves with?

Unprecidented collectors items extraordinare --Oui?

 

[citizenzen]

Be nice and it will all go away?

Better you should attack it.

That's always been a good path to peace.

 

[Dream]

It is beginning to sound like scrapping all religions is the most intelligent thing humans can do.
Sure, we would probably find new reasons to fight each other, but then again, maybe it would be reduced.

I have thought about that too, but I have met at least 1 atheist who has chosen to pursue religion primarily for what they perceive as its positive social impact. I have met several others saying similar things to me. They tell me, without being prompted, that they like it when people believe in God and that they feel it makes people better or society better. Not everyone says it, but that is what some people honestly feel. Specifically, they contrast America with secular Europe, which they feel is somehow missing something. I have never been to Europe, so I don't really know what its like. That is a testimony I hear in the wind. I also hear many religious people that have become atheists, like you, but I thought you would be interested to hear what I had heard from some other atheists.

Either way, after looking into my main text, the Bible, I can see potential for a lot of improvement in at least one religion. Probably our American society will soon be rolled into surgery where a slow and elegant hand will remove our fundamentalisms but leave the beating heart intact. We do have to get rid of some serious problems but it is too early to declare the patient dead. Think of it this way: as long as they are alive there is some hope that they will be able to pay their medical bills.

 

[Dogbrain]

Better you should attack it.

That's always been a good path to peace.

How well did appeasement work for Czechoslovakia?

 

[shawn]

I have thought about that too, but I have met at least 1 atheist who has chosen to pursue religion primarily for what they perceive as its positive social impact. I have met several others saying similar things to me. They tell me, without being prompted, that they like it when people believe in God and that they feel it makes people better or society better. Not everyone says it, but that is what some people honestly feel. Specifically, they contrast America with secular Europe, which they feel is somehow missing something. I have never been to Europe, so I don't really know what its like. That is a testimony I hear in the wind. I also hear many religious people that have become atheists, like you, but I thought you would be interested to hear what I had heard from some other atheists.

Either way, after looking into my main text, the Bible, I can see potential for a lot of improvement in at least one religion. Probably our American society will soon be rolled into surgery where a slow and elegant hand will remove our fundamentalisms but leave the beating heart intact. We do have to get rid of some serious problems but it is too early to declare the patient dead. Think of it this way: as long as they are alive there is some hope that they will be able to pay their medical bills.

Actually, you have a false assumption you are working with there and that is.....I am NOT an atheist.
I do believe in a God.
My belief is just not a conventional religious belief and so I don't have others of like mind to congregate with (I haven't met many others yet, but I have met a few, just too few and far between to make any kind of thing around it).

I see too many stupid ideas being promoted as "god's truth and God's way and ad nauseum", and it seems that religion has been far too manipulative in its social engineering task and has raised generations of superstitious imbeciles who all have the potential to be so much more and so much better if it weren't for the mind warping infection of religion which has severely retarded them.

 

[Dragonseer]

I am becoming somewhat bitter (perhaps it would be more accurate to say exasperated) at times regarding how religion is used to keep people divided.
How people in some religions feel they are somehow "above" criticism as they are adherents to the "True and proper" religion (which is a total crock).

It is true that many people use religion--as they do any other dualistic, manmade concepts--as a means of dividing the human race into "us" and "them."

It is beginning to sound like scrapping all religions is the most intelligent thing humans can do.

I think that John Lennon's song Imagine gets to the heart of the issue very well.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

that religion has been far too manipulative in its social engineering task and has raised generations of superstitious imbeciles

I cannot differ from you [esp in regards to its current third world effects and its current headline news items] ---yet, the history of the 20th Century is filled with large scale conflagrations that were NOT borne of religious conceit.

All the vital-statistics [death-records] of the last century were a result of meglomania. Unbridled lust to be called the Premeire-El Excellente Most-High Grand-Wizard of the commoners. Its as if marauding societies were inspired by some esoteric Quasi-Fiction-Novella ---ala, Don Quixote seeking domination of the world so as to embody a fictional character [self-proclaim Avatar-ship ...up for grabs by any one that gets to the top of the hill first] ---all preformed inlieu of living a simply agraian lifestyle ---all preformed by those without an obligation "to work the land"; and rather goes about to conquer foreigners as a "Pastime".

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Better you should attack it.

That's always been a good path to peace.

Is this plagerised from a transcription of a Osama Bin Laden speech?

Osama Bin Laden: Better you should attack it.

Osama Bin Laden's Valet: That's always been a good path to peace.

 

[shawn]

I cannot differ from you [esp in regards to its current third world effects and its current headline news items] ---yet, the history of the 20th Century is filled with large scale conflagrations that were NOT borne of religious conceit.

All the vital-statistics [death-records] of the last century were a result of meglomania. Unbridled lust to be called the Premeire-El Excellente Most-High Grand-Wizard of the commoners. Its as if marauding societies were inspired by some esoteric Quasi-Fiction-Novella ---ala, Don Quixote seeking domination of the world so as to embody a fictional character [self-proclaim Avatar-ship ...up for grabs by any one that gets to the top of the hill first] ---all preformed inlieu of living a simply agraian lifestyle ---all preformed by those without an obligation "to work the land"; and rather goes about to conquer foreigners as a "Pastime".

And all of them have incorporated useful aspects from religion into their shpiel, or have exploited the religious notions already present.
They just used these things to build their iconic image into that of "the god"
So we see the cult of personality rise to the fore in the past century...that is another religion with the state and the majestic "great Leader" and their blessed lieutenants who took the role of the saints.

 

[citizenzen]

Is this plagerised from a transcription of a Osama Bin Laden speech?

Osama Bin Laden: Better you should attack it.

Osama Bin Laden's Valet: That's always been a good path to peace.

Must be.

Lord knows nobody else has ever used words like that.