why does Allah not like the South Americans?

T

turner_chris1

turner_chris1
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
England
Just to start - do we all agree that -


1) Islam was essentially unknown in South America/Mexico between 650 AD and say the 1500's when the Spanish/Portuguese brought African slaves over, and even then, they were forced to become Catholic christians.


2) That the religons of the Inca and Aztecs and other civilisations in South America were not based on the Koran. (perhaps there is a line in the Koran about tearing the heart from the beating body with a sharp stone and kicking the body down the pyramid to be eaten by the warriors of your tribe whcih I havent noticed .)


3) That the following verses from the Koran are a reasonably accurate translation of the arabic


35.24 Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner; and there is not a people but a warner has gone among them.
[35.25] And if they call you a liar, so did those before them indeed call (their apostles) liars; their apostles had come to them with clear arguments, and with scriptures, and with the illuminating book.


So why, if every people has been sent a warner, with clear arguments and illumunating books, were the South Americans sent a rubbish one, a not convincing one, one they don't seem to have believed or trusted?


Why did the Arabs get the best one ever, but the Aztecs only got a grade three reject?


Why didn't the Aztecs and Inca need to know anything about the Koran - themost important book ever written - for over a thousand years?


Why didn't Allah love the Astecs and Inca* like he loved the Arabs?


(*Or the ancient British, Irish, Russians, Chinese, Australians, Sioux, Cherochee, Inuits, Vikings, Indians, Ceylonese, Burmese, Hottentot, Pigmy, Tibetens...............)
 
Just because the Arabs got who they did doesn't make them any better then the Aztecs. In fact, a more accurate view is that the Arabs were probably the worst nation in the world when the Prophet arrived. Even the Quran itself doesn't have a high opinion of the Arabs. Neither did the Prophet have a high opinion of the Arabs and told them they are no better then anyone else.

As for that verse you quoted, South America might very well have had their own prophet or prophets. His teachings might have been diluted over centuries and millenia. This doesn't mean everyone in S.A is going to hell.

So relax.
 
Hi Turner Chris,

Please leave interfaith forums.

Seriously.
 
turner_chris1 said:
Just to start - do we all agree that -


1) Islam was essentially unknown in South America/Mexico between 650 AD and say the 1500's when the Spanish/Portuguese brought African slaves over, and even then, they were forced to become Catholic christians.


2) That the religons of the Inca and Aztecs and other civilisations in South America were not based on the Koran. (perhaps there is a line in the Koran about tearing the heart from the beating body with a sharp stone and kicking the body down the pyramid to be eaten by the warriors of your tribe whcih I havent noticed .)


3) That the following verses from the Koran are a reasonably accurate translation of the arabic


35.24 Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner; and there is not a people but a warner has gone among them.
[35.25] And if they call you a liar, so did those before them indeed call (their apostles) liars; their apostles had come to them with clear arguments, and with scriptures, and with the illuminating book.


So why, if every people has been sent a warner, with clear arguments and illumunating books, were the South Americans sent a rubbish one, a not convincing one, one they don't seem to have believed or trusted?


Why did the Arabs get the best one ever, but the Aztecs only got a grade three reject?


Why didn't the Aztecs and Inca need to know anything about the Koran - themost important book ever written - for over a thousand years?


Why didn't Allah love the Astecs and Inca* like he loved the Arabs?


(*Or the ancient British, Irish, Russians, Chinese, Australians, Sioux, Cherochee, Inuits, Vikings, Indians, Ceylonese, Burmese, Hottentot, Pigmy, Tibetens...............)
Click to expand...

It wasn't that Allah didn't like them. I was religious people hating each other that didn't like the South Americans. God hates no one but sinners use God to control people and make money with him.
 
turner_chris1 said:
Why ?

Sorry did I offend you with my question? :confused:
Click to expand...

I'm not offended by your question, I have asked it myself but perhaps not the best way to introduce yourself to an INTERFAITH forum but your choice.

As c0de explained above, we have no idea which Prophet's were sent to each nation or what became of them, perhaps the Inca's used their Prophet as a human sacrifice? Perhaps the Eskimo's have an insight into Allah that we all forgot centuries ago? Who knows ... only Allah (swt).
 
But the Koran is the only uncorrupted book from God, isnt that right?

So presumably, you get some kind of benefit from having the correct words and guideance?

Which means that those that don't are at a disadvantage, or whats the point of spreading the faith?
 
turner_chris1 said:
Which means that those that don't are at a disadvantage, or whats the point of spreading the faith?
Click to expand...

The disadvantage is in not understanding/accepting the Quran's message. That applies equally to Muslims and Non-Muslims. There are many people who are born Muslims, who have no idea what the Quran actually says.

So presumably, you get some kind of benefit from having the correct words and guideance?
Click to expand...
Yep : )
 
so not hearing puts you at a disadvantage

the millions of South Americans etc that didnt hear , were at a disadvantage

through no fault of their own.

so why didnt God like them as much as the Arabs?
 
Turner Chris!; welcome!

Allah did send messengers to all nations, and Allah has sent the last messenger [saw] to all all mankind thus he was sent to aztecs, south-Americans, and all other people of the world till the last day!; it's just that Muslims are not doing much of a good job making sure this message reaches everyone as is their duty :(

[and if your wondering, yes i'm the same Abdullah on Beliefnet! ;)]; i refuted you there and i'll do it here again; no probs! :D
 
Hi/salaam--

If the Incas had their Prophet(s) and did something to them, and to the Message they preached, then they had their chance at salvation at a certain point in time. The Truth was revealed to them, and they may have rejected it. According to Islam, as you already know, all nations were sent a Messanger and the Message of Truth. Whether they accepted it or not was their own choice. The Revelation of Qur'an is the last Revelation in the line of hundreds, thousands that were either equal or extremely similar. Unfortunately, much of what was revealed in the ancient times has been lost.

Allah SWT says in the Qur'an that he does not require people to do more than they are able to do. If someone did not hear the Message of Truth of no fault of their own, well surely The One who created all knows about it and will surely send His Guidance on HIs own terms, at a particular time.
 
The burdern of responsibility today, in our own time, lies on the whole of humanity. As the Last Testament the Qur'an stands as a Warning to all humanity, according to Islam. No human being of today will be able to justify "not knowing" about the Qur'an on the Day of Judgment, as the information technology of today is extremly sofisticated and helps news travel fast.
 
Hello,

As an answer for the topic starter, I hope it'll make him/her think.


Maya creation myth (according to the Popol Vuh - Their Book of guidance)

Here is the story of the beginning,
when there was not one bird,
not one fish,
not one mountain.
Here is the sky, all alone.
Here is the sea, all alone.
There is nothing more
–no sound, no movement.
Only the sky and the sea.
(Note similitude with Genesis)

Only Heart-of-Sky, alone.
And these are his names:
Maker and Modeler,
Kukulkan,
and Hurricane.

(20:8 ) Allah - there is no god but He. His are the most excellent names.

But there is no one to speak his names.
There is no one to praise his glory.
There is no one to nurture his greatness.
And so Heart-of-Sky thinks,
"Who is there to speak my name?
Who is there to praise me?
How shall I make it dawn?"

(Hadith Qudsi: 'I was a treasure that was not known, so I loved to be known. Hence I created the creatures and I made Myself known to them, and thus they came to know Me.')

Heart-of-Sky only says the word,
"Earth,"
and the earth rises,
like a mist from the sea.
He only thinks of it,
and there it is.
He thinks of mountains,
and great mountains come.
He thinks of trees,
and trees grow on the land.

((36:82) Whenever He wills a thing, He just commands it “Be” and it is.)

And so Heart-of-Sky says,
"Our work is going well."


Genesis: God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Now Heart-of-Sky plans the creatures of the forest
-birds, deer, jaguars and snakes.
And each is given his home.
"You the deer, sleep here along the rivers.
You the birds, your nests are in the trees.
Multiply and scatter," he tells them.
(Genesis once again)

Then Heart-of-Sky says to the animals,
"Speak, pray to us."
But the creatures can only squawk.
The creatures only howl.
They do not speak like humans.
They do not praise Heart-of-Sky
And so the animals are humbled.
They will serve those who will worship Heart-of-Sky.
And Heart-of-Sky tries again.
Tries to make a giver of respect.
Tries to make a giver of praise.
Here is the new creation,
made of mud and earth.

(15:26) Surely We brought man into being out of dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud)

It doesn't look very good.
It keeps crumbing and softening.
It looks lopsided and twisted.
It only speaks nonsense.
It cannot multiply.
So Heart-of-Sky lets it dissolved away.
(Different stages of human development)
Now Heart-of-Sky plans again.
Our Grandfather and Our Grandmother are summoned.
They are the most wise spirits.
"Determine if we should carve people from wood,"
commands Heart-of-Sky.

(Adam and Eve)

They run their hands over the kernels of corn.
They run their hands over the coral seeds.
"What can we make that will speak and pray?
asks Our Grandfather.
What can we make that will nurture and provide?"
asks Our Grandmother.
They count the days,
the lots of four,
seeking an answer for Heart-of-Sky.
Now they give the answer,
"It is good to make your people with wood.
They will speak your name.
They will walk about and multiply."
"So it is," replies Heart-of-Sky.

(7:172) And recall (0 Prophet) when your Lord brought forth descendants from the loins of the sons of Adam, and made them witnesses against their ownselves. asking them: 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we do testify.' We did so lest you claim on the Day of Resurrection: 'We were unaware of this.'

And as the words are spoken, it is done.
The doll-people are made
with faces carved from wood.
But they have no blood, no sweat.
They have nothing in their minds.
They have no respect for Heart-of-Sky.
They are just walking about,
But they accomplish nothing.
"This is not what I had in mind,"
says Heart-of-Sky.
And so it is decided to destroy
these wooden people.
Hurricane makes a great rain.
It rains all day and rains all night.
There is a terrible flood
and the earth is blackened.
The creatures of the forest
come into the homes of the doll-people.

(Noah’s flood)

"You have chased us from our homes
so now we will take yours,"
they growl.
And their dogs and turkeys cry out,
"You have abused us
so now we shall eat you!"
Even their pots and grinding stones speak,
"We will burn you and pound on you
just as you have done to us!"
The wooden people scatter into the forest.
Their faces are crushed,
and they are turned into monkeys.
And this is why monkeys look like humans.
They are what is left of what came before,
an experiment in human design.

(Human rebellion)
 
isok said:
Hello,

As an answer for the topic starter, I hope it'll make him/her think.


Maya creation myth (according to the Popol Vuh - Their Book of guidance)

Here is the story of the beginning,
when there was not one bird,
not one fish,
not one mountain.
Here is the sky, all alone.
Here is the sea, all alone.
There is nothing more
–no sound, no movement.
Only the sky and the sea.
(Note similitude with Genesis)

Only Heart-of-Sky, alone.
And these are his names:
Maker and Modeler,
Kukulkan,
and Hurricane.

(20:8 ) Allah - there is no god but He. His are the most excellent names.

But there is no one to speak his names.
There is no one to praise his glory.
There is no one to nurture his greatness.
And so Heart-of-Sky thinks,
"Who is there to speak my name?
Who is there to praise me?
How shall I make it dawn?"

(Hadith Qudsi: 'I was a treasure that was not known, so I loved to be known. Hence I created the creatures and I made Myself known to them, and thus they came to know Me.')

Heart-of-Sky only says the word,
"Earth,"
and the earth rises,
like a mist from the sea.
He only thinks of it,
and there it is.
He thinks of mountains,
and great mountains come.
He thinks of trees,
and trees grow on the land.

((36:82) Whenever He wills a thing, He just commands it “Be” and it is.)

And so Heart-of-Sky says,
"Our work is going well."


Genesis: God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Now Heart-of-Sky plans the creatures of the forest
-birds, deer, jaguars and snakes.
And each is given his home.
"You the deer, sleep here along the rivers.
You the birds, your nests are in the trees.
Multiply and scatter," he tells them.
(Genesis once again)

Then Heart-of-Sky says to the animals,
"Speak, pray to us."
But the creatures can only squawk.
The creatures only howl.
They do not speak like humans.
They do not praise Heart-of-Sky
And so the animals are humbled.
They will serve those who will worship Heart-of-Sky.
And Heart-of-Sky tries again.
Tries to make a giver of respect.
Tries to make a giver of praise.
Here is the new creation,
made of mud and earth.

(15:26) Surely We brought man into being out of dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud)

It doesn't look very good.
It keeps crumbing and softening.
It looks lopsided and twisted.
It only speaks nonsense.
It cannot multiply.
So Heart-of-Sky lets it dissolved away.
(Different stages of human development)
Now Heart-of-Sky plans again.
Our Grandfather and Our Grandmother are summoned.
They are the most wise spirits.
"Determine if we should carve people from wood,"
commands Heart-of-Sky.

(Adam and Eve)

They run their hands over the kernels of corn.
They run their hands over the coral seeds.
"What can we make that will speak and pray?
asks Our Grandfather.
What can we make that will nurture and provide?"
asks Our Grandmother.
They count the days,
the lots of four,
seeking an answer for Heart-of-Sky.
Now they give the answer,
"It is good to make your people with wood.
They will speak your name.
They will walk about and multiply."
"So it is," replies Heart-of-Sky.

(7:172) And recall (0 Prophet) when your Lord brought forth descendants from the loins of the sons of Adam, and made them witnesses against their ownselves. asking them: 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we do testify.' We did so lest you claim on the Day of Resurrection: 'We were unaware of this.'

And as the words are spoken, it is done.
The doll-people are made
with faces carved from wood.
But they have no blood, no sweat.
They have nothing in their minds.
They have no respect for Heart-of-Sky.
They are just walking about,
But they accomplish nothing.
"This is not what I had in mind,"
says Heart-of-Sky.
And so it is decided to destroy
these wooden people.
Hurricane makes a great rain.
It rains all day and rains all night.
There is a terrible flood
and the earth is blackened.
The creatures of the forest
come into the homes of the doll-people.

(Noah’s flood)

"You have chased us from our homes
so now we will take yours,"
they growl.
And their dogs and turkeys cry out,
"You have abused us
so now we shall eat you!"
Even their pots and grinding stones speak,
"We will burn you and pound on you
just as you have done to us!"
The wooden people scatter into the forest.
Their faces are crushed,
and they are turned into monkeys.
And this is why monkeys look like humans.
They are what is left of what came before,
an experiment in human design.

(Human rebellion)
Click to expand...

I have a good question. Any thoughts on allatu?
 
isok said:
Hello,

As an answer for the topic starter, I hope it'll make him/her think.


Maya creation myth (according to the Popol Vuh - Their Book of guidance)

Here is the story of the beginning,
when there was not one bird,
not one fish,
not one mountain.
Here is the sky, all alone.
Here is the sea, all alone.
There is nothing more
–no sound, no movement.
Only the sky and the sea.
(Note similitude with Genesis)

Only Heart-of-Sky, alone.
And these are his names:
Maker and Modeler,
Kukulkan,
and Hurricane.

(20:8 ) Allah - there is no god but He. His are the most excellent names.

But there is no one to speak his names.
There is no one to praise his glory.
There is no one to nurture his greatness.
And so Heart-of-Sky thinks,
"Who is there to speak my name?
Who is there to praise me?
How shall I make it dawn?"

(Hadith Qudsi: 'I was a treasure that was not known, so I loved to be known. Hence I created the creatures and I made Myself known to them, and thus they came to know Me.')

Heart-of-Sky only says the word,
"Earth,"
and the earth rises,
like a mist from the sea.
He only thinks of it,
and there it is.
He thinks of mountains,
and great mountains come.
He thinks of trees,
and trees grow on the land.

((36:82) Whenever He wills a thing, He just commands it “Be” and it is.)

And so Heart-of-Sky says,
"Our work is going well."


Genesis: God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Now Heart-of-Sky plans the creatures of the forest
-birds, deer, jaguars and snakes.
And each is given his home.
"You the deer, sleep here along the rivers.
You the birds, your nests are in the trees.
Multiply and scatter," he tells them.
(Genesis once again)

Then Heart-of-Sky says to the animals,
"Speak, pray to us."
But the creatures can only squawk.
The creatures only howl.
They do not speak like humans.
They do not praise Heart-of-Sky
And so the animals are humbled.
They will serve those who will worship Heart-of-Sky.
And Heart-of-Sky tries again.
Tries to make a giver of respect.
Tries to make a giver of praise.
Here is the new creation,
made of mud and earth.

(15:26) Surely We brought man into being out of dry ringing clay which was wrought from black mud)

It doesn't look very good.
It keeps crumbing and softening.
It looks lopsided and twisted.
It only speaks nonsense.
It cannot multiply.
So Heart-of-Sky lets it dissolved away.
(Different stages of human development)
Now Heart-of-Sky plans again.
Our Grandfather and Our Grandmother are summoned.
They are the most wise spirits.
"Determine if we should carve people from wood,"
commands Heart-of-Sky.

(Adam and Eve)

They run their hands over the kernels of corn.
They run their hands over the coral seeds.
"What can we make that will speak and pray?
asks Our Grandfather.
What can we make that will nurture and provide?"
asks Our Grandmother.
They count the days,
the lots of four,
seeking an answer for Heart-of-Sky.
Now they give the answer,
"It is good to make your people with wood.
They will speak your name.
They will walk about and multiply."
"So it is," replies Heart-of-Sky.

(7:172) And recall (0 Prophet) when your Lord brought forth descendants from the loins of the sons of Adam, and made them witnesses against their ownselves. asking them: 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we do testify.' We did so lest you claim on the Day of Resurrection: 'We were unaware of this.'

And as the words are spoken, it is done.
The doll-people are made
with faces carved from wood.
But they have no blood, no sweat.
They have nothing in their minds.
They have no respect for Heart-of-Sky.
They are just walking about,
But they accomplish nothing.
"This is not what I had in mind,"
says Heart-of-Sky.
And so it is decided to destroy
these wooden people.
Hurricane makes a great rain.
It rains all day and rains all night.
There is a terrible flood
and the earth is blackened.
The creatures of the forest
come into the homes of the doll-people.

(Noah’s flood)

"You have chased us from our homes
so now we will take yours,"
they growl.
And their dogs and turkeys cry out,
"You have abused us
so now we shall eat you!"
Even their pots and grinding stones speak,
"We will burn you and pound on you
just as you have done to us!"
The wooden people scatter into the forest.
Their faces are crushed,
and they are turned into monkeys.
And this is why monkeys look like humans.
They are what is left of what came before,
an experiment in human design.

(Human rebellion)
Click to expand...


nice one isok! ;)

It just goes to corraborate that Allah did indeed send a revelation to all nations, albeit the one's prior to the Quran are now distorted and no longer valid
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top