Thoughts on God

[prophetleah]

[QUOTE ...how He may be known to us and thirdly how we may speak of Him"
Thomas

The Almighty God is everywhere present. He is the all powerful and all knowledgeable God. Thus he is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. A good place to start in getting to know the Lord is through his holy word, the Bible. The Bible is the inerrant, infallible, unadulterated Word that teaches us about God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God, and the Divine Holy Ghost. Prayer is one way of communicating or speaking with God. He hears us when we pray no matter how short or disjointed our thoughts are.

 

[Amergin]

"When we know that something is, it remains to inquire in what way it is, so that we may know what it is. But since concerning God we cannot know what He is but only what He is not, we cannot consider in what way God is but only in what way He is not. So first we must ask in what way He is not, secondly how He may be known to us and thirdly how we may speak of Him"
Thomas Aquinas. Summa Theologiae, I-I, q3, prologue

Like him or leave him, one can't fault him.

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

How do we find a general definition of what God is? We cannot as you show. But I think we can make definitions that are more or less likely.

If we define God as our name for the Creator of the Universe. We could agree.

Now we are assuming God to be the Creator. That means we must choose what definition of God best fits the description of a cosmic creator.

A. God is a conscious cognitive being who created the universe for some unknown reason. It was presumably a conscious decision. Who knows why? Our culture further defines god has having personality or three personalities. He (male gender) has human traits of emotions, cognition, rage attacks, vindictiveness, narcissism, jealousy, insecurity, virtues, and vices as outlined in the Bible. He is the Anthropomorphic God of Islam, Judaism, Most Forms of Paganism, and Christianity. In my opinion HE makes little sense.

I reject the Abrahamic anthropomorphic God. If the Bible is the definition, then that god does not deserve to be worshipped. He is evil and cruel. He has temper rages, vindictiveness, injustice, and lack of mercy (creating Hell.) He is an alter ego of the Hebrew tribal shamans who created the various gods that Moses merged into one. That one god, JHWY, is a cosmic human with all of humanity's worst vices and few virtues. He is so unlikely that believing in him is not an option for me. I can understand one believing in this God only through abject, terrifying fear and/or the delusion of immortality.

B. God is conscious but of a type totally non-human. It may be a summary of physical laws. It may make matter and energy universes by unknown mechanisms and for unknown reasons.

This is the Conscious non-humanoid god? He is of course more plausible than the anthropomorphic god. We cannot see him, hear him, or measure him in any way. So he remains hypothetical. He has noting to rule him out, either. One problem is whether consciousness and cognition are even needed. The other issue is that astrophysics, geophysics, and evolution show no evidence of intelligent design.

C. The final one is the inanimate, non-conscious, non-cognitive force that's function is to deform the fabric of the cosmos which perhaps just inadvertently results in the formation of a universe in a Big Bang. Whether that is interdimensional or something else we have no way to tell.

God may be a non-conscious and completely non-cognitive force of some unknown composition. It has an essence that is not matter, energy, or wave form. We cannot see it, hear it, feel it, or measure it. It's function may be to push matter from other dimensions through black holes or bubbles in the fabric of the cosmos, or mechanisms unknown. It does this because it is its property to do so. It is not a conscious decision. It may be passively activated by something in the current state of the cosmos at the time. Perhaps the death of one universe spurs the explosion of another by extradimensional physics. Perhaps there is a quantum mechanism.

I think the non-conscious, non-cognitive purely natural force creator makes the most rational sense. Unlike God no. 2, I see no need for that entity to possess consciousness.

Most things do not have what they do not need. God does not need to be a conscious thinker. The natural creative force(s) is/are just as likely a mechanism and make more sense than a conscious being.

Thinking consciousness is an adaptation for survival in animals that evolved for feeding, escaping predation, and mating. Only animals need this property of consciousness and cognition according to what we observe.

I do not deny a conscious, cognitive, and emotional being as the Creator of the Universe. However, I find that concept to be unjustified. Thus I remain uncommitted and withhold belief.

I cannot believe God A because he is self-contradictory.

God B remains a possibility for me, but I cannot explain the personality aspect of such a process. God C remains to me the most likely explanation for creation.

Amergin

 

[Thomas]

How do we find a general definition of what God is? We cannot as you show. But I think we can make definitions that are more or less likely.

There are two ways: philosophy, and revelation.

If we define God as our name for the Creator of the Universe. We could agree.

OK

Now we are assuming God to be the Creator. That means we must choose what definition of God best fits the description of a cosmic creator.

OK

A. God is a conscious cognitive being who created the universe for some unknown reason. It was presumably a conscious decision.[/B] Who knows why?

Well we can posit 'because He chose to' on the basis that God, being First Cause, is not Himself subject to causation.

Our culture further defines god has having personality or three personalities.

Christian culture does. But prior to that affirms that God is One.

He (male gender) has human traits of emotions, cognition, rage attacks, vindictiveness, narcissism, jealousy, insecurity, virtues, and vices as outlined in the Bible.

No. You're ignoring the tradition of the interpretation of Scripture. Remember that the tradition gave rise to the Scripture, not the other way round.

He is the Anthropomorphic God of Islam, Judaism, Most Forms of Paganism, and Christianity. In my opinion HE makes little sense.

You are entitled to your opinion — but this does not represent a truth.

On the other hand, all three traditions have a sound philosophical, theological and metaphysical framework that does make sense.

I reject the Abrahamic anthropomorphic God.

And I would suggest you don't understand the concept. You've read about it, and made erroneous assumptions.

B. God is conscious but of a type totally non-human. It may be a summary of physical laws. It may make matter and energy universes by unknown mechanisms and for unknown reasons.

OK

This is the Conscious non-humanoid god? He is of course more plausible than the anthropomorphic god.

Evidently. It would be silly to posit a God that is in some manner lesser than the entity that posits Him.

We cannot see him, hear him, or measure him in any way. So he remains hypothetical. He has noting to rule him out, either.

Precisely, because he lies outside the remit of the sciences that insist on trying to determine whether or not such a God is possible.

One problem is whether consciousness and cognition are even needed.

See my point above.

The other issue is that astrophysics, geophysics, and evolution show no evidence of intelligent design.

This is a false statement. The issue is open to debate.

C. The final one is the inanimate, non-conscious, non-cognitive force that's function is to deform the fabric of the cosmos which perhaps just inadvertently results in the formation of a universe in a Big Bang.Whether that is interdimensional or something else we have no way to tell.

OK. But the point still remains that a God cannot be lesser than what He creates.

God may be a non-conscious and completely non-cognitive force of some unknown composition.

Unlikely, for the reasons stated.

It has an essence that is not matter, energy, or wave form. We cannot see it, hear it, feel it, or measure it.

Quite right ... once you take that on baord as axiomatic, then you can begin to debate.

It's function may be to push matter from other dimensions through black holes or bubbles in the fabric of the cosmos, or mechanisms unknown. It does this because it is its property to do so. It is not a conscious decision. It may be passively activated by something in the current state of the cosmos at the time. Perhaps the death of one universe spurs the explosion of another by extradimensional physics. Perhaps there is a quantum mechanism.

Now you're making spurious suppositions in the attempt to define God within a context you've already admitted is non-applicable.

I think the non-conscious, non-cognitive purely natural force creator makes the most rational sense. Unlike God no. 2, I see no need for that entity to possess consciousness.

Then human consciousness makes man superior to God, if God does not possess consciousness. Whether consciousness is the aim of evolution, or a bizarre by-product is immaterial to this argument — your notion of God collapses as not being the God of philosophy or theology.

Most things do not have what they do not need. God does not need to be a conscious thinker. The natural creative force(s) is/are just as likely a mechanism and make more sense than a conscious being.

You've missed a big point.

Thinking consciousness is an adaptation for survival in animals that evolved for feeding, escaping predation, and mating. Only animals need this property of consciousness and cognition according to what we observe.

No, consciousness has evolved further in humans, for language, for example, which is to do with more than feeding, etc.

I do not deny a conscious, cognitive, and emotional being as the Creator of the Universe. However, I find that concept to be unjustified. Thus I remain uncommitted and withhold belief.

OK. But I find your argument is deeply flawed.

I cannot believe God A because he is self-contradictory.

Again, your (ill-informed) opinion. Others don't find Him so.

So again, what you provide is your own reasoning, in which the gaps are evident.

Not a compelling argument.

Gopd bless,

Thomas

 

[Amergin]

God is NOT a Human, angel, despot, Tsar, demigogue;

God may not exist since nobody has seen him.

God is NOT without 'Potency'

Well, he supposedly impregnated Mary, a virgin. But that was the last one. Reportedly he may have erectile dysfunction

God is NOT without pastimes;

Inventing plaque bacteria, internal parasites, blindness, leprosy, and the Dallas Cowboys.

God is NOT without fame;

Are you sure it is not infamy.

God is NOT without a name;

I agree. Baal, Set, Brahma, Ahura Mazda, Amun-Ra, Aten, Elohim, El, Allah, JHWY, Aed Alainn, Dadga, Odin, Osiris, Isis, Jesus the God, Cthulhu, Gog Sothoth, Azeroth, Hastur the Unspeakable, Dagon, Wind Walker, the Raven, the Coyote, and the Great Pumpkin.

God is NOT with inebriety.

If not, what explains God's rage attacks and enormous genocides if not mental illness.

God is NOT ignorant;

He did not know that the Sun had to be created before the Earth. He thought day and night could occur without the Sun, and placed the Earth on four pillars so that it never moves. God flunked Astrophysics 101.

God is NOT without Lovers, servants, Mother, Father, Aunts, Cousins, pets, teachers;

God had a mistress or a wife. I never heard of Mrs. God.

God is NOT tinged by Time;

God has changed many times in human history back to the first civilisations. Palaeontology suggests that Neanderthals might have had some kind of religious belief and that usually means gods. The carved Goddess of Willendorf (30,000 years old) shows humans had female goddesses before male gods. Does God change gender?

God is NOT encumbered by material limits.

He can't be seen, heard, felt, measured, and leaves no foot prints. That does not sound like matter of atoms and molecules.

God is NOT lethargic;

Why then, did he need to rest after 6 days of work that only consisted of saying magic words?

God is NOT alone;

Does this include Jesus, Holy Spirit, Lucifer, Mary, and saints.

God is NOT temporary;

God has become temporary or extinct in much of Europe.

God is NOT a changing entity;

The killer Tyrant JHWY is quite different from Jesus God.

God is NOT lost;

Where is God?

God has a human personality (jealousy, anger, violence, vindictiveness, rage attacks, capriciousness, merciless, indifferent to suffering. That sound more human than any other being.

God is homicidal. Can anyone tell me how many people were killed by Satan?

God killed the world population in Noah's Flood. God killed thousands of Egyptians in the plaques. God killed 5000 (?) for looking into the Ark. God killed the populations of Sodom and Gomorrah. God ordered Moses to kill Jews who worshiped a golden calf. (I will not count the Christian Wars (400 CE to 1939/45)) killing millions in the name of God.)

Amergin