The son of man (We are)

[Gatekeeper]

Have you ever considered that we (Humanity) may be the way? Perhaps it is true that we make up the body of Christ, and even more so EVIDENT that it is up to us (Collectively) to usher in a new world, or paradise if you will (Heaven). Jesus being one who labored for that end. Much like many others (Believer and unbeliever alike) labor for that end.

The truth is that we are responsible for our world, and in order to usher in a new world (Paradise) we will need to unify under a common thread and/or unite and work towards a common goal. I myself believe that Jesus had it right, knowing and teaching us what it would take to do this, so in this sense Jesus is the way, and we become as he was when we submit our lives to this goal.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand. It has always been this way, only most haven't much a clue what this means. I believe it means that we have all we need in order to realize Gods kingdom, but in order to do so, we must first put away our selfish and self centered ways, then work together for the good of all. We are required to make sacrifices if we ever wish to realize paradise on earth (Heaven).

As it seems to me, most Christians have perverted the message of Christ, making it a selfish endeavor when his message was meant to inspire humanity to simply love one another, and serve each others needs like Jesus himself did. We (All of us) represent Jesus (The son of man) and we too can be sons and daughters of God if we so desire to walk and live as Jesus did, serving our fellow man, and honoring God by being good stewards over his creation.

We like Jesus are the sons of man. It is our charge and our responsibility to better our own world. If you disagree, why?

GK

 

[wil]

Exactly James!

You know the old saw about the straw that broke the camel's back. The camel was so loaded down that just one more straw was all it took, and he collapsed.

I feel the same way, except for in this case the straw is my enlightenment, and we are attempting to break the backbone of that which is keeping us from heaven (a raised consciousness).

Yes, the entire world is waiting for me (the collective me) to wake up.

Nice to see you again...

 

[Amergin]

Have you ever considered that we (Humanity) may be the way? Perhaps it is true that we make up the body of Christ, and even more so EVIDENT that it is up to us (Collectively) to usher in a new world, or paradise if you will (Heaven). Jesus being one who labored for that end. Much like many others (Believer and unbeliever alike) labor for that end.

It is important to know that Jesus and Christ are entirely different concepts. Jesus was a great man who taught virtue, morality, compassion, love, charity, and social responsibility. He clearly says he was sent by God to preach God's message. He clearly says he is subordinate to God (Father). He tells us that all are sons (and daughters) of God. He says to Mary Magdalene, "I will ascend to my Father and my God, and your Father and Your God." Jesus was a biological animal (Homo sapiens) not a God or Creator. To take that further, Jesus thought that all of us are sons (and daughters) of God.

Christ is a Pagan god, created in several stages over the first 3 centuries. The Christian Church distorted and ignored most of the teachings of Jesus, and concentrated on apotheosis (deification of Jesus into a new Sun god.)

The example of Jesus and our own evolutionary morality show that what we do, counts. We achieve membership in the Symbolic Body of Jesus by following his teachings and that includes good works. Evil works tend to push us out of that mystical body. The infamous anti-Semitic Protestant, Martin Luther, taught the amoral message that faith in Jesus as a God (scriptural error) brought salvation while good behaviour is purely optional. Protestantism teaches that Hitler influenced by Luther, killed 6 million Jews. Hitler according to Luther would be in Heaven if he accepted Jesus just before he shot himself and crunched the Cyanide. His sins do not count.

Protestantism is the most evil form of the Christian Religion which is really Indo-European Paganism.

The truth is that we are responsible for our world, and in order to usher in a new world (Paradise) we will need to unify under a common thread and/or unite and work towards a common goal. I myself believe that Jesus had it right, knowing and teaching us what it would take to do this, so in this sense Jesus is the way, and we become as he was when we submit our lives to this goal.

Aye.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand. It has always been this way, only most haven't much a clue what this means. I believe it means that we have all we need in order to realize Gods kingdom, but in order to do so, we must first put away our selfish and self centered ways, then work together for the good of all. We are required to make sacrifices if we ever wish to realize paradise on earth (Heaven).

The Kingdom of Heaven was manifested when the first Sahalanthropus had descendants (Ardipithecus) who stood on two legs. It was there when Australopithecus garhi used crudely chipped stones to get food. It was there when Homo habilis made the first clearly designed stone tools. It was there when Homo heidelbergensis buried his dead, spoke human words, and contemplated death. It was there when Homo sapiens, who inherited the smaller brains of habilis and heidelbergensis, it grew to 1300 cc. Art, passing information to children, development of more and more complex tools eventually leading to landing on the Moon and probes to the planets. Heaven is the fortuitous progression of primates to our continuing to evolve human primates.

As it seems to me, most Christians have perverted the message of Christ, making it a selfish endeavor when his message was meant to inspire humanity to simply love one another, and serve each others needs like Jesus himself did. We (All of us) represent Jesus (The son of man) and we too can be sons and daughters of God if we so desire to walk and live as Jesus did, serving our fellow man, and honoring God by being good stewards over his creation.

We like Jesus are the sons of man. It is our charge and our responsibility to better our own world. If you disagree, why?

GK

I agree.

Amergin

 

[Thomas]

Have you ever considered that we (Humanity) may be the way?

That's a very anthropocentric view, isn't it? But then you'd have to define 'way'.

I mean, an atheist would agree. The inherent danger, it seems to me, is once we have determined how the way is — according to me — the next logical step is to determine what God is ... according to me.

Perhaps it is true that we make up the body of Christ...

Remember however that the Body of Christ is not dependent upon us. Christ is the Body of Christ, we are incorporated into His Body, not the other way round.

So it is not given that we make the body, rather the way is shown to our incorporation into the Body.

and even more so EVIDENT that it is up to us (Collectively) to usher in a new world, or paradise if you will (Heaven).

Well this is totally contrary to Scripture, isn't it?

Jesus being one who labored for that end. Much like many others (Believer and unbeliever alike) labor for that end.

That's a view ... the Scriptural view is Jesus is the end (cf John 1, Colossians1, etc.)

The truth is that we are responsible for our world, and in order to usher in a new world (Paradise) we will need to unify under a common thread and/or unite and work towards a common goal.

OK. But all we aspire to is a humanist ideal (no bad thing, I'm all for it); Utopia, but not Paradise in the Scriptural sense.

I myself believe that Jesus had it right, knowing and teaching us what it would take to do this, so in this sense Jesus is the way, and we become as he was when we submit our lives to this goal.

But Jesus said 'without me you can do nothing' ... and it seems to me that much of contemporary 'new thought' Christianity renders Jesus as an optional extra ... no-one else can say to his or her neighbour, 'without me you can do nothing' ...

The kingdom of heaven is at hand. It has always been this way, only most haven't much a clue what this means. I believe it means that we have all we need in order to realize Gods kingdom, but in order to do so, we must first put away our selfish and self centered ways, then work together for the good of all. We are required to make sacrifices if we ever wish to realize paradise on earth (Heaven).

Well you are alone in the modern world. The idea of 'sacrifice' is anathema to the modern mindset. Rather the 'new way' is we each determine what the way is, and then God obliges accordingly ...

As it seems to me, most Christians have perverted the message of Christ...

Ahh ... OK ... but on what basis do you assume you haven't? You've departed from Scripture on a number of points.

making it a selfish endeavor when his message was meant to inspire humanity to simply love one another, and serve each others needs like Jesus himself did. We (All of us) represent Jesus (The son of man) and we too can be sons and daughters of God if we so desire to walk and live as Jesus did, serving our fellow man, and honoring God by being good stewards over his creation.

OK. But that's purely abstract terms.

According to Scripture, sonship involves participation in the Divine Life, over and above all cosmological considerations. That's not to play them down, rather I would request one doesn't sell Christ short.

Thomas

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

the type of theology that I been exposed to is like this, the Kingdom of Heaven is a KIngdom thats exists in the spiritual realms Jesus saw what his Father was doing in Heaven and did the same of Earth thats how he did the miracles, as Christians we want to be like Jesus and see what our Father is doing in Heaven and declare it on earth thats how miracles and healing occur, I think they call it Kingdom Theology, its the idea that there are two Gospels the Gospel of Salvation and the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Thats not to say that we cant also be down to earth and practical in our Love for everyone but we also want to see Gods Glory manifest in our lives.

 

[Gatekeeper]

That's a very anthropocentric view, isn't it? But then you'd have to define 'way'.

I mean, an atheist would agree. The inherent danger, it seems to me, is once we have determined how the way is — according to me — the next logical step is to determine what God is ... according to me.

So scripture is your only means to know God? I prefer discovering him through existence, and through life itself. You would prefer to look to other men, and an old book to determine who God is, and what the way is when life itself leads us to both when we are mindful of our realities.

Christ means anointed. Jesus was anointed, just as we are considered to be anointed once love (Spirit) becomes our guiding light.

We are the body that Christ Jesus represented. We are just as Jesus was (Sons of men) and we are considered sons of God once we are obedient to Gods will for us.

We make up the body Jesus represented. It ends with the anointing of mankind.

He spoke of himself being the vine (Metaphorically) and the rest of us being branches who either bear fruit, or not. Without living as Jesus lived, we can bear no fruit.

Sure we are a diverse group with different traditions and such, but in order to be as Jesus was, we need to be faithful to our purpose, and this involves sacrifice on our part.

You're correct .... I do not follow the scriptures, nor do I weigh all matters against them. Life is much more preferred over an old book by me.

Will the real Christ please stand up? Jesus was an amazing man who realized what it would take for mankind to grow past our destructive tendencies, but he's not the only one. Many parts make up the body, and each part of the body are no less Christ than Jesus was.

 

[Quahom1]

It is important to know that Jesus and Christ are entirely different concepts. Jesus was a great man who taught virtue, morality, compassion, love, charity, and social responsibility. He clearly says he was sent by God to preach God's message. He clearly says he is subordinate to God (Father). He tells us that all are sons (and daughters) of God. He says to Mary Magdalene, "I will ascend to my Father and my God, and your Father and Your God." Jesus was a biological animal (Homo sapiens) not a God or Creator. To take that further, Jesus thought that all of us are sons (and daughters) of God.

Christ is a Pagan god, created in several stages over the first 3 centuries. The Christian Church distorted and ignored most of the teachings of Jesus, and concentrated on apotheosis (deification of Jesus into a new Sun god.)

The example of Jesus and our own evolutionary morality show that what we do, counts. We achieve membership in the Symbolic Body of Jesus by following his teachings and that includes good works. Evil works tend to push us out of that mystical body. The infamous anti-Semitic Protestant, Martin Luther, taught the amoral message that faith in Jesus as a God (scriptural error) brought salvation while good behaviour is purely optional. Protestantism teaches that Hitler influenced by Luther, killed 6 million Jews. Hitler according to Luther would be in Heaven if he accepted Jesus just before he shot himself and crunched the Cyanide. His sins do not count.

Protestantism is the most evil form of the Christian Religion which is really Indo-European Paganism.

Aye.

The Kingdom of Heaven was manifested when the first Sahalanthropus had descendants (Ardipithecus) who stood on two legs. It was there when Australopithecus garhi used crudely chipped stones to get food. It was there when Homo habilis made the first clearly designed stone tools. It was there when Homo heidelbergensis buried his dead, spoke human words, and contemplated death. It was there when Homo sapiens, who inherited the smaller brains of habilis and heidelbergensis, it grew to 1300 cc. Art, passing information to children, development of more and more complex tools eventually leading to landing on the Moon and probes to the planets. Heaven is the fortuitous progression of primates to our continuing to evolve human primates.

I agree.

Amergin

You had the first part right. As soon as you called "Christ" a pagan concept, it was all over.

Try reading the OT, and see where you made a mistake.

 

[Thomas]

So scripture is your only means to know God?

In my tradition Scripture speaks of two ways of knowing God — one is through the Book of Nature, the other is through the Book of Revelation.

Nature can inform us (philosophically) that there is a God, but the knowledge of God as such is limited to what can be predicated of the deity according to rational speculation ... this is the 'God of the Philosophers' ... it's an ascent, here we can know of God by what God effects. One could call this the 'ground up' way, and is limited only by the cosmological horizon.

Revelation is a self-disclosure of the Deity, from beyond the cosmological 'event horizon' if you will.

I prefer discovering him through existence, and through life itself.

The Book of Nature way.

You would prefer to look to other men, and an old book to determine who God is, and what the way is when life itself leads us to both when we are mindful of our realities.

I always find this kind of response interesting ... the implication here is that 'other men' having nothing to teach us? And an 'old book' assumes that all truth is contingent?

In my tradition we think in terms of eternal and contingent truth — the Book of Revelation discloses the eternal, the Book of Nature discloses the contingent.

We follow the Augustinian line: "Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."

Christ means anointed. Jesus was anointed, just as we are considered to be anointed once love (Spirit) becomes our guiding light.

OK ... but now you are talking of the Book of Revelation...

In Scripture there are many names of the Incarnate One ... to cleave to one name, at the expense of the rest, we have seen as likely to lead to a distortion or an inaccurate 'weighting' of the idea the name suggests. All names should be held and, like polishing jewels, their interplay reveals something of the nature of the named.

We are the body that Christ Jesus represented. We are just as Jesus was (Sons of men) and we are considered sons of God once we are obedient to Gods will for us.

Not according to Scripture. We are incorporated into Him, not He into us. Even philosophically, that seems a flawed argument: It puts the effect before the cause.

He spoke of himself being the vine (Metaphorically) and the rest of us being branches who either bear fruit, or not. Without living as Jesus lived, we can bear no fruit.

Precisely — but this does no accord with the argument you present above.

We are joined to Him as the source of life ... we are not the source of His life, as you suggest above.

Sure we are a diverse group with different traditions and such, but in order to be as Jesus was, we need to be faithful to our purpose, and this involves sacrifice on our part.

No. We need to be faithful to His purpose.

I do not follow the scriptures, nor do I weigh all matters against them. Life is much more preferred over an old book by me.

Then you can say nothing about Jesus, because the knowledge of Him comes entirely from Scripture.

I would suggest:
A: You do not follow Scripture
B: You are not led by the wisdom of Scripture.
C: You live your life as you choose, and interpret Scripture to fit the image you have decided.

Will the real Christ please stand up? Jesus was an amazing man who realized what it would take for mankind to grow past our destructive tendencies, but he's not the only one. Many parts make up the body, and each part of the body are no less Christ than Jesus was.

Then where is the Body of which Jesus is a part ... ?

You're taking the data of Scripture, but following 'the traditions of men' you're reducing it to speculative abstractions.

If you think your philosophy is absolutely unique, then I suggest there are many others who share the same 'unique' idea, if you do not, then you must acknowledge you are influenced by 'other men' ...

Thomas

 

[Gatekeeper]

In my tradition Scripture speaks of two ways of knowing God — one is through the Book of Nature, the other is through the Book of Revelation.

Nature can inform us (philosophically) that there is a God, but the knowledge of God as such is limited to what can be predicated of the deity according to rational speculation ... this is the 'God of the Philosophers' ... it's an ascent, here we can know of God by what God effects. One could call this the 'ground up' way, and is limited only by the cosmological horizon.

Revelation is a self-disclosure of the Deity, from beyond the cosmological 'event horizon' if you will.


The Book of Nature way.


I always find this kind of response interesting ... the implication here is that 'other men' having nothing to teach us? And an 'old book' assumes that all truth is contingent?

In my tradition we think in terms of eternal and contingent truth — the Book of Revelation discloses the eternal, the Book of Nature discloses the contingent.

We follow the Augustinian line: "Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."


OK ... but now you are talking of the Book of Revelation...

In Scripture there are many names of the Incarnate One ... to cleave to one name, at the expense of the rest, we have seen as likely to lead to a distortion or an inaccurate 'weighting' of the idea the name suggests. All names should be held and, like polishing jewels, their interplay reveals something of the nature of the named.


Not according to Scripture. We are incorporated into Him, not He into us. Even philosophically, that seems a flawed argument: It puts the effect before the cause.


Precisely — but this does no accord with the argument you present above.

We are joined to Him as the source of life ... we are not the source of His life, as you suggest above.


No. We need to be faithful to His purpose.


Then you can say nothing about Jesus, because the knowledge of Him comes entirely from Scripture.

I would suggest:
A: You do not follow Scripture
B: You are not led by the wisdom of Scripture.
C: You live your life as you choose, and interpret Scripture to fit the image you have decided.


Then where is the Body of which Jesus is a part ... ?

You're taking the data of Scripture, but following 'the traditions of men' you're reducing it to speculative abstractions.

If you think your philosophy is absolutely unique, then I suggest there are many others who share the same 'unique' idea, if you do not, then you must acknowledge you are influenced by 'other men' ...

Thomas

I'm simply suggesting that Jesus represents mankind. He was both the son of man, and the son of God. The difference between Jesus and us is in how he chose to live, and what/who he chose to honor. He lived a life of service both to God and to his fellow man.

He showed us what it would take to realize the kingdom. He was the way, the truth, and the life after all. Not him alone, but rather every man and woman who would follow his lead. At which point, they too become the way, the truth, and the life.

I think most Christians are missing the big picture. It is completely up to us to realize the kingdom, but it can only be realized if we do as Jesus did, and live our lives in service to God and our fellow man.

The Spirit behind the man named Jesus was love. He loved above all else, and it is because of this that he was called the Christ (Anointed one). We too become a part of Christ's body (Anointed one/s) when we begin to live through this life giving Spirit.

My problem with scripture is that I believe some of it is true, while some of it isn't. Most Christians view scripture to be absolute truth, when there is a great deal of darkness and falsehoods in it if you ask me. If you wish to view scripture to be inerrant and as a means of knowing God that's up to you. I myself prefer to use nature as a means of knowing and understanding God. Even so, I still read the scriptures for inspiration, but usually only the NT.