Pope's remarks on condoms sow widespread confusion

[Thomas]

The classic Catholic mother who has male children, desires most that a son be a doctor, lawyer, or a priest. "My son the doctor" or "My son the priest" are equally prestigious.

Yep.

My hypothesis is that in this setting, a heterosexual son is urged to marry and give Mum a grandchild.

In Europe generally, the first son inherited the estates, the second went into the army, and the third became a vicar ... this is why Anglicanism in England is such a microcosmic reflection of English society — vocation, and God — never came into it.

In Ireland, even the heterosexual son was urged to go into the priesthood, to save him from the clutches of women (go figure) — so once more 'God' has little to do with the social pressures.

Likewise in big families, one could 'offload' subsequent offspring into religious orders.

The contra can be seen in cases of authentic vocation, where the parents often went to great lengths to keep their offspring, both sons and daughters, from entering orders — St Thomas Aquinas' family famously hired a hooker to show their son what he would be missing, although they were more concerned about him joining the 'cult' of Dominic than taking Holy Orders as such — had he opted for a respectable Benedictine monastry, they would have been happy.

Personally, I think throughout the Middle Ages the monastic life wasn't too bad — a roof, shelter, food, care in later life — only latterly, when society has equipped itself with so many benefits, does entering a monastic life become a real and meaningful sacrifice.

A son with homosexual urges and lack of interest in girls, finds the pressure to date or marry is stressful. The best way to avoid the undesirable heterosexual life while winning Mum's approval is to enter the priesthood.

I have heard homosexual priests express the same conviction — the priesthood is good 'cover' and removes the societal pressures to conform.

... And he finds himself in a seminary with young lads who may be there for the same reason as he is.

We have material evidence for this.

The Celibate Catholic Priesthood unfortunately concentrates homosexual leaning boys with each other.

Yep.

It gives them access to altar boys.

Yep.

But if you consider your argument, the fault lies not with the celibate priesthood, but with homosexuals who are faking a vocation to find cover, and indeed find scope (in some cases) to pursue their sexual orientation ...

... it's not the fault of the priesthood, it's the fault of those wishing to turn the priesthood to their own ends.

The solution then, as suggested, is a more vigorous selection process, to discern the reality of vocation regardless of sexual orientation.

Thomas

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Quote:
One cannot remain celibate if they eat meat, inaddition to:
No meat, fish, nor eggs.
No garlic (except as temporary medicine).
No onions, vinegar.
No mushrooms.
No products containing these elements.
I haven't followed this, yet, somehow, I managed... how?

If there is one guideline, its eating less, not eating specific.

I offer all my respects to you --I pray that what you profess it is the truth. [Please keep in mind that what I cite is bonefide doctrine ---and I am proferring it to those in the Catholic hyarchcy]

I have delineated standard Yoga-Ashram protocol as it has been since time-immemorial.

My intent was to chastice official Celebate Priest under the pressure of a vow ---My intent was to share 'insider-secrets' of the profession.

Inre to the OP, I agree with Thomas's accessment:

the fault lies not with the celibate priesthood, but with homosexuals who are faking a vocation to find cover, and indeed find scope (in some cases) to pursue their sexual orientation ...

... it's not the fault of the priesthood, it's the fault of those wishing to turn the priesthood to their own ends. The solution then, as suggested, is a more vigorous selection process

Inre to the OP, I agree with C0de's accessment:

The secret to "worldly aloofness" is the realization that everything that is fleeting, sucks.

And sexual pleasure is the highest pleasure available ---That is why My posting of 'insider-secrets' as per standard Yoga-Ashram protocol since time-immemorial, is meant for adults that are in a position to see the further ramifications that evolve from those who are bereft of this standard Yoga-Ashram protocol for celebacy.

By extention our youth the world over are "sexually aggitated" by multiple industries that routinely Holiday in the most exclusive resorts in the world ---while the wealth grows day-by-day predictated on the "Pusher-Man" hawking urges that self-perpetuate further urges.

Have you watch television comercial adverts latey with your mom in the room?
There is an American TV show callede "Two & a Half Men" about two adult brothers and one young lad [a son of one of the Bros] ---and it is all debuachery sponsored by proveyors of debuach schemes.

Football games with alcohol Adverts followed by Seafood restaurant faire ---DOES ANYONE FORGET THAT SEAFOOD IS AN ENTRE TO SEX???

If she'll swallow that with verve . . . what else will she do next? Remember the protocol, of Porkey's Revenge?

Lastly, the ramifications of "standard Yoga-Ashram protocols for celebacy" lend themselves to calming prison populations [after incarceration] & calming bestial criminal behavior amongst those determined to stay out of prison and live a life of payying one's taxes and dying long after getting all the pleasures attainable in life.

 

[Dream]

bhaktajan, it is very interesting information. There are times when the libido is a distraction. An example is the time when you need to find energy and focus in your work or study.

 

[c0de]

And sexual pleasure is the highest pleasure available ---

Not according to heroin addicts

source: Trainspotting

Have you watch television comercial adverts latey with your mom in the room?

This trend apparently started right after WWII, with the start of the public relations industry in the US, headed by Freud's nephew. Any product can be made appealing to the masses if turned into an aphrodisiac...

 

[Amergin]

In Europe generally, the first son inherited the estates, the second went into the army, and the third became a vicar ... this is why Anglicanism in England is such a microcosmic reflection of English society — vocation, and God — never came into it.

The military is indeed a prestige point for Mama but only if he is an officer. Enlisted men/women are not so high in society. They should be. A military officer may be better than "my son the Lawyer.

In Ireland, even the heterosexual son was urged to go into the priesthood, to save him from the clutches of women (go figure) — so once more 'God' has little to do with the social pressures.

That has not been my experience. My mother was very pro-physician. She did encourage me to enter the military if I did not go to Med School. She did want me to marry the "right girl" and have children. There was not anti-women sentiment from her. She might have accepted me going into the Seminary but she did not urge it. Oddly, my family never had a priest as far as I know.

Based on experiences in a small city/large village, there were mothers who pushed one or more of their children to the priesthood and some urged girls to become nuns.

I have a hypothesis. While some homosexual lads may go into the priesthood as a cover, as you stated, I think many know of their homosexual urges and believe that dedicating their lives to God/Jesus might give them the strength to resist the evil urges. The priesthood was not so much a cover as a "cure." That does not strike me as rational but it may be a factor in my Celtic Catholic culture. My father was an atheist (uncommon in Ireland) and I never really absorbed Catholicism despite some very scary nuns. I am a third generation atheist but I did not advertise it.

Likewise in big families, one could 'offload' subsequent offspring into religious orders.

Ahh, maybe.

The contra can be seen in cases of authentic vocation, where the parents often went to great lengths to keep their offspring, both sons and daughters, from entering orders — St Thomas Aquinas' family famously hired a hooker to show their son what he would be missing, although they were more concerned about him joining the 'cult' of Dominic than taking Holy Orders as such — had he opted for a respectable Benedictine monastry, they would have been happy.

Was not St. Augustine a womanising rounder in his early days, but then became an aggressive Christian?

Personally, I think throughout the Middle Ages the monastic life wasn't too bad — a roof, shelter, food, care in later life — only latterly, when society has equipped itself with so many benefits, does entering a monastic life become a real and meaningful sacrifice.

I had not thought of that. It makes sense. I can imagine the peace and tranquility in someplace like an abby where the monks actually work at low stress jobs like making wine, beer, or even whiskey or built furniture and such. They often earned enough to help the poor like the Abby outside of Limerick. Their choir performs on stage all over Ireland, and makes records (now CD's) that earn money. It sure beats the insecurity of working for an American corporation.

I have heard homosexual priests express the same conviction — the priesthood is good 'cover' and removes the societal pressures to conform.


We have material evidence for this.

What is that material evidence?

But if you consider your argument, the fault lies not with the celibate priesthood, but with homosexuals who are faking a vocation to find cover, and indeed find scope (in some cases) to pursue their sexual orientation ...

That is a chicken or the egg argument. Anglican priests and Presbyterians can marry and sometimes marriage is encouraged. Their rates of homosexuality and paedophilia are much lower. Could the problem in America and Ireland be that a vocation with celibacy is far too convenient a place for young homosexual boys. If the Pope repealed the Celibacy law, would the problem be less?

.

.. it's not the fault of the priesthood, it's the fault of those wishing to turn the priesthood to their own ends.

The solution then, as suggested, is a more vigorous selection process, to discern the reality of vocation regardless of sexual orientation.

Thomas

Thomas, would turning down a seminary applicant for admitting homosexuality fit with anti-discrimination laws or would boys learn that and simply lie to the seminary. I would favour the repeal of the Mediaeval Celibacy policy.

Me

 

[Bhaktajan II]

I can imagine the peace and tranquility in someplace like an abby where the monks actually work at low stress jobs like making wine, beer, or even whiskey or built furniture and such.

Oh Brother! – 1968 BBC TV Sitcom

Derek Nimmo stars as Brother Dominic, a novice monk at Mountacres Priory. His clumsiness, however, constantly leaves him on the verge of being dismissed from his holy orders. Brother Dominic is a very similar character to Reverend Noote whom Nimmo portrayed in 'All Gas and Gaiters'.

TV ARK | Comedy (M-R)