Can belief in a higher power be combined with Evolution

[bob x]

With all respect Professor, are you talking about "deviation" or a "brand new species"? If the latter, I am very curious, sir...

v/r

Q

It continues to astonish me that creationists get away with telling their flocks nobody has ever seen new species, when it is not all that rare. Here is the talk-origins summary of the literature on recent scientific observations of speciation; but the dog, goldfish, corn, and rutabaga are all cases of species arising more recently than human history, which are well known to the general public.

 

[citizenzen]

I've been banging on about "The Master and his Emissary" Iain McGilchrist over a few posts now.

From what I've seen so far McGilchrist sounds like a fine writer and respected psychologist. We will however, have to see how his theories stand the test of time and experimentation.

If I were to hazard a guess as to why there appears to be an increased number of schizophrenics, I'd have to first offer up the very unsexy, "because it's been diagnosed more." There may be no change in the number of schizophrenics. The only thing that may have changed is our ability to see and identify it.

But again, time and more studies will help to clarify the picture.

 

[Quahom1]

We need more Celts ...

At your service sir. bye the by, my son has exhibited an interest in participating here at IO...and he's a Celt off the cloth...so to speak...

He's also a hardened combat medic from the middle east...

 

[Quahom1]

It continues to astonish me that creationists get away with telling their flocks nobody has ever seen new species, when it is not all that rare. Here is the talk-origins summary of the literature on recent scientific observations of speciation; but the dog, goldfish, corn, and rutabaga are all cases of species arising more recently than human history, which are well known to the general public.

I never said I was a creationist, professor...ever...

 

[Thomas]

We will however, have to see how his theories stand the test of time and experimentation.

I tend to read it the other way round ... he's theories are founded on hard evidence.

If I were to hazard a guess as to why there appears to be an increased number of schizophrenics, I'd have to first offer up the very unsexy, "because it's been diagnosed more." There may be no change in the number of schizophrenics. The only thing that may have changed is our ability to see and identify it.

Actually I thought that, but it's not the case.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

At your service sir. bye the by, my son has exhibited an interest in participating here at IO...and he's a Celt off the cloth...so to speak...

He's also a hardened combat medic from the middle east...

Bring it on!

God bless,

Thomas

 

[citizenzen]

I tend to read it the other way round ... he's theories are founded on hard evidence.

I think it's always a good idea to be a little agnostic about any specific scientific theory, especially one as new as McGilchrists. Mind you, I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm simply saying just that I'm not ready to jump on that bandwagon quite yet. I've seen too many theories come and go to get too excited about this one. But now that I know about it, I'll keep my eyes open for further developments.

You on the other hand will always have the right to say, "I was into that dude since the beginning."

 

[Amergin]

Science does not exist, waiting to be discovered, science is the product of human activity.

Science does exist just like thinking, perception, knowledge, and inquiry. It is the product of human activity, the marvelous human brain in its electrochemical circuitry. The brain uses science and scientific methods to inquire about the natural universe. Brain's can occasionally be wrong. That is why Scientific Theories can on occasion be wrong. However, Science has the method of re-examine all Theories and modify, edit, or delete flawed ideas.

That science is the product of man, does not thereby assert that man is the product of science.

Of course, man is not the product of science. Man's knowledge of his origins, evolution, human biology-chemistry-physics, and cognitive function is the product of science.

Man is also not the product of hypothetical gods. Man's brain created gods which are mental concepts. The god concept is a metaphor for mysteries not yet or never explained by scientific inquiry. Religion is a form of philosophy used to create dogma defining the details of belief in whatever particular god man invents.

Put Reason in her seat of truth.

Amergin

 

[vizenos]

Can a belief in a higher power or deity be combined with accepting evolution?

While I suspect this would depend on the reality-view of the individual, I've not only never had a problem with this, but I have found that modern science actually solves a fair number of problems and strengthens my own personal faith.

Regards,
vizenos

 

[bob x]

I never said I was a creationist, professor...ever...

My apologies, then. But it seems you have been given the impression that the question of whether new species ever arise was still an open question; no, it really isn't.

I join Thomas in eagerly anticipating the arrival of "Son of Q"!

 

[Thomas]

Science does exist just like thinking, perception, knowledge, and inquiry.

My point is that science doesn't exist outside of the mind. It's all conceptual reference to empirical data.

It is the product of human activity, the marvellous human brain in its electrochemical circuitry.

Yes. It's called mind.

The brain uses science and scientific methods to inquire about the natural universe.

I would say the mind constructs science ...

Brain's can occasionally be wrong.

Yes.

That is why Scientific Theories can on occasion be wrong. However, Science has the method of re-examine all Theories and modify, edit, or delete flawed ideas.

Yes.

Of course, man is not the product of science. Man's knowledge of his origins, evolution, human biology-chemistry-physics, and cognitive function is the product of science.

Not just science ... art ... ethics ...

Man is also not the product of hypothetical gods.

Are, now you've made an error. You've declared something to be hypothetical, yet you have not proved it's non-existence — nor can you, as it is axiomatic that God, bu its nature, cannot be proved by empirical determination, but there are, as I have stated before, a number of philosophical proofs which still stand and which the empirical method cannot refute.

Man's brain created gods which are mental concepts.

The same as they created every mental concept ... this concept is then matched to the experiential reality, and a dialogue ensues.

The god concept is a metaphor for mysteries not yet or never explained by scientific inquiry.

I would rather say they are metaphors for realities that transcend the empirical.

Religion is a form of philosophy used to create dogma defining the details of belief in whatever particular god man invents.

I think you've come from a scientific dogmatism — scientism, as it's now called — insisting that it is the sole authority on everything.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[wil]

My point is that science doesn't exist outside of the mind. It's all conceptual reference to empirical data.

Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one. ~ Albert Einstien

Science is all in the mind?

So if we don't think it or believe it the apple doesn't fall and the earth doesn't spin?


confuddled again.

 

[Thomas]

Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one. ~ Albert Einstien

Well, close but not quite right. Reality is present to the right hemisphere of the brain. The left hemisphere then compares what is coming 'in' through the senses to what it knows, and builds an image of reality founded on pre-conceived data ...

We need both hemispheres working in tandem, as it's the right which tells the left what to focus on ... but essentially, the right holds a complete image of the real, without drawing any conclusions; the left then 're-presents' that image to the right, having drawn its own conclusions about what it's seeing.

The problem is when the left insists it's re-presentation is 'real', and the data from the right hemisphere is false ... that, in a nutshell, according to all the evidence, is what is happening in 'developed nations' are at the moment.

Science is all in the mind?

Bluntly, yes. Reality exists ... science is a construct to enable us to explain and investigate what exists.

So if we don't think it or believe it the apple doesn't fall and the earth doesn't spin?

No, rather the point is we don't need science to tell us not to sit under the coconut tree, not to step off cliffs, etc... but when Isaac Newton observed the phenomena, and wrote a paper about it, science suddenly 'discovers' gravity, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Takes numbers. Numbers don't exist as things. Numbers are a mental construct derived from observation ... yet all the science in the world is, I think, dependent upon numbers. You try asking a scientist to explain the world without resorting to 'made up' solutions.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[seattlegal]

Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one. ~ Albert Einstien

Science is all in the mind?

So if we don't think it or believe it the apple doesn't fall and the earth doesn't spin?


confuddled again.

Hmm, ever notice how science often uses analogies to put its concepts into understandable terms, just like philosophy and religions often do?

 

[wil]

Well Ok, we know religions are man made and mostly in our mind...

If we need science to be there to that is ok with me.

I'll embrace them both.

 

[Lichtik]

religions are man-made?

WHat is the proof that religions are man-made?

 

[wil]

Re: religions are man-made?

WHat is the proof that religions are man-made?

Every book of the bible, the koran, the vedas, the sutras were written by man...

Unless you have proof otherwise.

 

[Thomas]

Re: religions are man-made?

Every book of the bible, the koran, the vedas, the sutras were written by man...
Unless you have proof otherwise.

OK. So everything man has written is man made, the invention of his own psyche? No contact with reality at all?

God bless,

Thomas

 

[arthra]

Re: religions are man-made?

Every book of the bible, the koran, the vedas, the sutras were written by man...

Unless you have proof otherwise.

First they were revealed and later set down in writing.. that's my two cents!

 

[citizenzen]

Re: religions are man-made?

OK. So everything man has written is man made, the invention of his own psyche? No contact with reality at all?

What do you mean by "no contact with reality at all?" Our natural world surely influences us. But I don't see how one makes the leap from being influenced by our environment to being influenced by the invisible man in the sky.

Regardless of my psychological state if I sit outside in snow, my body will get colder, if I jump in a river, I'll get wet, if I lie out naked in the sun, my skin will burn. All of these results are predicable, testable and measurable. They are not the invention of my psyche.