Humor: Can a rich man get into heaven..?
- Thread starter Nick the Pilot
- Start date
Dream
Well-Known Member
Found this using images.google.com, and it was on theragblog.blogspot.com
Subconsciously it seems somehow related to the opening post. It is an obviously photo-edited collage of the wreckage of Exxon's Valdez, sitting in a desert with relatively tiny train of camels going past it and awesome blue sky full of clouds in the background. The size extremes, the wealth, the camels, the ancient and the modern all seem to blend together in it. If you look closely at the ship, it looks a bit like a needle with a hole large enough for a camel, however the ship is itself now a camel that has failed to go through the eye of another needle, which is the sky but figuratively life itself.
at "The Son of Man's Bloody Gorefest" from the Brick Testament's Book of Revelation.
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
Ahanu,
I agree. That website is too bizarre for my taste.
I agree. That website is too bizarre for my taste.
It is interesting, it puts the words into perspective with fairly nondescript little lego scenes. Funny how the legos throw it into your face, make the words come alive in plastic.
Now is the website bizzarre or is the reality of the literal read?
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
The reality of the literal read. I don't know of too many Christians who get rid of their wordly possessions because the Bible tells them to do so.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Dream
Well-Known Member
I heart that one too.
hmmm..... all things are possible if you are on the right path?
Anyone ready for some angels dancing on the head of a pin?
He gets an A for effort, motivation and immagination...
If they only had a funnel....
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
Wow, great stuff. By the way, I remember reading a Bible (I believe it was called the Lamsa Bible) which supposedly translated Jesus' words directly into English. The author said he spoke the same language as Jesus, which he said was Southern Aramaic, which supposedly allowed this author to make the most accurate possible translation into English. The author said the camel comment was a figure of speech, it meant putting a camel's hair through the eye of a needle, and that anyone who spoke Southern Aramaic would know this (again, according to the author). If so, according to the author, this unexplained figure of speech makes more sense than putting a whole camel through the eye of a needle.
I have the llamsa.... and some other works of his protege, Rocco Ericco, it is interesting as they continue to learn...however it still appears they have to translate from coptic and koine and hebrew back into Aramaic and then back out...they do this because Aramaic had so many fewer words, and as it comes out there are so many choices...
There is another story about the doorways to the city... You've got your large barred door with gates and protection from invading warriors...that would be wide open during peace time...and then smaller doors that can easily be guarded and folks one at a time in a queue can be searched, questioned, checked by homeland security before they enter through the magnetrons. These smaller castle entries had the typical pointed arch opening and it was said this was referred to as the eye of the needle. (now this story is supported by many and refuted by many) Anywho, a rich man would have to unload his horses/camels of all their burden and his entourage would all have to dismount and everything would have to be hand carried through the eye of the needle and reloaded.... where as an unburdened camel would be able to simply walk right thru.
Hence it is much easier for the camel to go thru than the rich man...If the story were true, it would be easy to see how those who knew the colloquial terms would simply nod in agreement at the simplicity and accuracy of the statement.
There is a rich hyperbolic linguistic tradition in the Semitic languages (indeed, in the Arabic generally), and I think this is just one instance.
The story of the small gate is largely dismissed today as there being no evidence to support it, but then much of what Luke said in his Gospel suffered the same fate until archaeological evidence showed scholarly assumptions to be wrong. Indeed the existence of the pool of Siloam, spoken of in John's Gospel, was denied, and this argument was used to refute the eye witness veracity of John's testimony — until it was discovered!
Most walled structures had what was later called a 'sally port' — a small and often concealed door that messengers or even raiding parties could slip in and out of, so this one should not be written off.
Having said that however, remember Jesus also spoke of a plank in one's eye, and again, of the 'mustard tree' which would seem to be as big as an oak, but in fact never grows very big at all.
And Luke's Greek for 'needle' refers to a surgeon's needle specifically, but then, Luke was a bit of a doctor ...
On the other hand we have:
"They do not show a man a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant going through the eye of a needle."
Babylonian Talmud, Berakoth, 55b
"… who can make an elephant pass through the eye of a needle."
Babylonian Talmud, Baba Mezi'a, 38b
"A needle's eye is not too narrow for two friends, but the world is not wide enough for two enemies"
Source not traced but cf. Midrash Rabbah, Genesis 1.3
"The Holy One said, open for me a door as big as a needle's eye and I will open for you a door through which may enter tents and [camels?]"
Midrash Rabbah, The Song of Songs, 5.3; cf. Pesiqta R., 15, ed. Friedmann, p.70a; Soncino Zohar, Vayikra 3, p95a
As Wil said, the Lamsa Bible was a retro-translation, so not really very useful at all, and his argument rested on a mistranslation of the Greek for 'rope' (kamilos) as 'camel' (kamelos) — but the oldest texts we have use the word 'camel' not 'rope'.
Of all, I delight in the last text cited above ... if the sinner opens just the slightest 'needle's eye' of an acceptance of God, then God will open up the gates of heaven for him.
God bless,
Thomas
The story of the small gate is largely dismissed today as there being no evidence to support it, but then much of what Luke said in his Gospel suffered the same fate until archaeological evidence showed scholarly assumptions to be wrong. Indeed the existence of the pool of Siloam, spoken of in John's Gospel, was denied, and this argument was used to refute the eye witness veracity of John's testimony — until it was discovered!
Most walled structures had what was later called a 'sally port' — a small and often concealed door that messengers or even raiding parties could slip in and out of, so this one should not be written off.
Having said that however, remember Jesus also spoke of a plank in one's eye, and again, of the 'mustard tree' which would seem to be as big as an oak, but in fact never grows very big at all.
And Luke's Greek for 'needle' refers to a surgeon's needle specifically, but then, Luke was a bit of a doctor ...
On the other hand we have:
"They do not show a man a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant going through the eye of a needle."
Babylonian Talmud, Berakoth, 55b
"… who can make an elephant pass through the eye of a needle."
Babylonian Talmud, Baba Mezi'a, 38b
"A needle's eye is not too narrow for two friends, but the world is not wide enough for two enemies"
Source not traced but cf. Midrash Rabbah, Genesis 1.3
"The Holy One said, open for me a door as big as a needle's eye and I will open for you a door through which may enter tents and [camels?]"
Midrash Rabbah, The Song of Songs, 5.3; cf. Pesiqta R., 15, ed. Friedmann, p.70a; Soncino Zohar, Vayikra 3, p95a
As Wil said, the Lamsa Bible was a retro-translation, so not really very useful at all, and his argument rested on a mistranslation of the Greek for 'rope' (kamilos) as 'camel' (kamelos) — but the oldest texts we have use the word 'camel' not 'rope'.
Of all, I delight in the last text cited above ... if the sinner opens just the slightest 'needle's eye' of an acceptance of God, then God will open up the gates of heaven for him.
God bless,
Thomas