Karma ~ The Penetrative Explanation

Snoopy said:
I concur, but the cessation of kamma alluded to previously seems paradoxical to this. Now I have vexation!
Click to expand...
Dang! now I'm having vexation!

Vajradhara said:
it's mostly due to taking a bit of a teaching and applying it outside of it's own framework, if i may, rather than such things being vexing.
Click to expand...
OK, if ignorance is the supporting condition of karma formations, and karma formations are the supporting condition for consciousness, and karma is intent, then are karma formations from ignorant intent?

One could easily become lost in confusion in this. Does the neither-bright-nor-dark form of karma require ignorance for support as well? Is this where faith comes in? (suffering being the supporting condition for faith, faith being the supporting condition for joy, etc.) Suffering and faith as an impetus to pursue the eightfold path in order to end suffering?

it remains to be seen which of the Buddha's teaching apply to any individual being.
Click to expand...

Indeed! There is no way to check and confirm this forth type of karma and its outcome (at least not that I am aware of)--hence the need for faith!

Is this one aspect of the koan about killing the Buddha if you should meet him on the road? That not doing so would endanger this type of faith? (As well as our inability to accurately conceive of the Buddha--that meeting him on the road would be just an imperfect mental formation)
 
@sg

Lovely to be in your esteemed company. :D

@Vaj

Need to address an economic imperative (go to work) but I'll get back to you later. Thanks as ever for your fulsome posting. :)
 
Snoopy said:
@sg

Lovely to be in your esteemed company. :D
Click to expand...
seattlegal-albums-misc-picture734-latte-macchiato-loeffel-mit-kniff.gif
 
Ah, well if the kamma of the Buddha is solely the forth kind then I can appreciate where my confusion arises. Although I had posted the chapter on the forth kind, my confusion stemmed from such as:

(I hope you don’t consider this quote-mining; it is simply to show the basis for the confusion re: "Even Buddha himself generated kamma...")


“The cessation of kamma should be known.

The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.

And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

the cessation of kamma in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.

The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.”
 
so no confusion over ignorance being the supporting condition of kamma formations while the text says that the path of extinguishing kamma should be known?
 
Vajradhara said:
of course i have no idea what your grounding in Buddhist teaching and philosophy happens to be nevertheless i would suggest that the Suttas go into great depth and specificity regarding Buddhas and Karma in contrast with other sentient beings and karma.

it remains to be seen which of the Buddha's teaching apply to any individual being.
Click to expand...

"Grounding" sounds impressive, but, (for your notes :) ) my winding path seems to be broadly Caodong / Sōtō. Of course, truth is wherever I find it.
 
Snoopy said:
Ah, well if the kamma of the Buddha is solely the forth kind then I can appreciate where my confusion arises. Although I had posted the chapter on the forth kind, my confusion stemmed from such as:

(I hope you don’t consider this quote-mining; it is simply to show the basis for the confusion re: "Even Buddha himself generated kamma...")


“The cessation of kamma should be known.

The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.

And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

the cessation of kamma in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.

The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.”
Click to expand...
OK, this seems to fit the description for neither-bright-nor-dark kamma from the eightfold path: Right effort and right mindfulness:
Magga-vibhanga Sutta
"And what, monks, is right effort? (i) There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (ii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. (iii) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (iv) He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort.

"And what, monks, is right mindfulness? (i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (ii) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (iii) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (iv) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. This, monks, is called right mindfulness.​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top