Thoughts?

[seattlegal]

Relationships do add chaos, unknowns or situations that are outside of an individual's control, though still within the control of the group. From an individual perspective, relationships do add chaos. No single individual necessarily is in total control, though as a group they can remain in control. When people get into the same car, or in the same aircraft, or on the same boat, then to a degree they can become like one vehicle. I can cook a recipe that I know, a recipe given to me, the food that I like, or the food that someone else likes. I can let someone else cook, or ask them to cook a recipe that they have yet to learn. There is a lot of variety and chaos in relationships. Of what you say about chaos and harmony is not surprising to me. There is an element of inward control, outward control, and an element that is not within any individual's control. I would relate to it this way: there is individual responsibility, and there is a group responsibility. As a member of any group, it becomes valuable to be seeking agreement as to who is responsible for what. A degree of individual chaos becomes acceptable and valuable, towards the value of relationships.

"Perfect order" can become "perfectly boring," in other words.

 

[Lunitik]

I'm sure your friends and family will be happy that you do not consider union with them to be 100%, all or nothing. Memory is good, but I suggest you don't have to let it make or break a relationship.

My union with them is 0% - they are separate and spiritually inaccessible currently. You should probably consider what is meant by "union" when I say it, perhaps you prefer words like merge or join?

It looks to me like you seriously assert your thoughts and beliefs onto other people. You speak of schizophrenia, disillusionment, depression, spirituality, humour to cause a oneness. Have you seriously experienced all of those things? If you speak truthfully then you are merely speaking about yourself, your experiences, your relationships, and your set of values and beliefs. I am being honest as I tell you: I find it deplorable and dishonest.

I have experienced oneness, the rest of the list is duality though, duality does not cause oneness, duality confirms and substantiates existence.

I don't pretend to know what everyone is thinking. I find this a bit irrelevant though, while you find it important. I find that what you are saying is also false, because it is good to take responsibility for what you do with your mind.

Do you currently? Are you completely aware of every thought that goes through your mind? Are you aware of what is shaping them, the filter your mind creates between reality and perception?

The same goes for the mind. Sure: the thoughts, the jokes, the delusions, I can say that these things are not really me. Taking responsibility for my mind though: I'm the person that chooses for this mind what thoughts to entertain, to dwell on, to store for later, or to put away.

There are techniques to utterly cease the function of mind unless it is needed. Quite often, our mind is racing and we can't stop it, our very attempt to stop is is merely another thought in a long line. I have certainly fought this for hours at a time in years gone by. You can choose whether these thoughts arise at all, it is unskillful to have them arise and then manage them as necessary, it wastes energy... you become a slave to mind.

If I see a person meditating while they are driving, not using their mind, or likewise distracted in thought, not taking responsibility for their thoughts, for where they look, for where they communicate, for interacting with others around them, and for what they are about to do, then I'd either steer far away to avoid them, rebuke them, and/or simply accept and prepare to suffer as there will likely be a major accident as a result of them. Furthermore, it will be doubtful to me that they will take any responsibility and learn from it, though I will certainly hope that they will.

You understand that thought distracts? It is not a symptom of concentration at all... it is the opposite of concentration.

Relationships do add chaos, unknowns or situations that are outside of an individual's control, though still within the control of the group. From an individual perspective, relationships do add chaos. No single individual necessarily is in total control, though as a group they can remain in control. When people get into the same car, or in the same aircraft, or on the same boat, then to a degree they can become like one vehicle. I can cook a recipe that I know, a recipe given to me, the food that I like, or the food that someone else likes. I can let someone else cook, or ask them to cook a recipe that they have yet to learn. There is a lot of variety and chaos in relationships. Of what you say about chaos and harmony is not surprising to me. There is an element of inward control, outward control, and an element that is not within any individual's control. I would relate to it this way: there is individual responsibility, and there is a group responsibility. As a member of any group, it becomes valuable to be seeking agreement as to who is responsible for what. A degree of individual chaos becomes acceptable and valuable, towards the value of relationships.

You can choose to not add to a problem, for instance if you are having a issue with something, like maybe your car doesn't start in the morning. There are direct consequences, but why allow mood, for instance, to suffer based on this unfortunate event? Being in a bad mood isn't going to make the car start, but always we compound our problems and make them more difficult to deal with. If, now, because we are in a bad mood, we out and yell at a stranger or yell at our boss about how it isn't our fault the car won't start, what do you think the ramifications are? You might now get in a fight or fired when all the original issue was is that the car won't start... it is absurd how we go on doing this.

 

[Lunitik]

Mind is where thoughts arise, just to be clear, the internal words. I am not sure how you can consider these good things while driving... this is a function of brain

Consciousness is that which is aware, it is aware of your thought, your speech, your sight, your hearing, smell, emotions, body, everything. If you are concentrating on thought, you cannot concentrate so much on sight, which I think you will agree is the most important aspect when driving... most would say this is a function of soul

I think we are getting our wires crossed on this for some reason, however, if you have looked into any enlightened person, they will not claim to be in their body. They will claim to be hovering around it, free from it at all times. For the enlightened person, death happens when they cease to control the body, but since they weren't in the body and not attached to the death process, their soul survives in that state, it does not move to another plane - at least that's the theory, all other souls are not awoken so they just get assigned somewhere to be reborn based on its current maturity and karma.

 

[luecy7]

"Perfect order" can become "perfectly boring," in other words.

Excitement in disorder? Seriously? Which would you prefer?

 

[william b]

well the East is a big place and if you keep going you end up back in the West etc

as for the East being more spiritually advanced the entire notion is bull faeces, even the notion of levels of spirituality is pretentious garbage.

I think I agree.
You can look at a group of people digging a ditch. One finishes first. The rest finish an hour later. But who cares? Only someone who wants to be recognized as the best ditch digger makes such distinctions.
Is it better to be nonviolent? To be tolerant? To seek wisdom? Probably. But I know that no person on earth is qualified to look into anyone else's heart and say, "Hmmm. Not very spiritually advanced, are you?" It doesn't help a person become nonviolent, tolerant, thoughtful. Everyone CAN choose to be thoughtful. A criminal can decide to put down his guns and do good. Would it have done any good to walk up to him before then and tell him "You know. I think you are spiritual slow."

 

[luecy7]

My union with them is 0% - they are separate and spiritually inaccessible currently. You should probably consider what is meant by "union" when I say it, perhaps you prefer words like merge or join?

I have experienced oneness, the rest of the list is duality though, duality does not cause oneness, duality confirms and substantiates existence.

It sounds like your one-ness is really alone-ness. Who do you think you have 100% "union" with? Keep in mind that you've said God has an ego and suffers from it, and have said that you merely mentioned God to appease me.

Do you currently? Are you completely aware of every thought that goes through your mind? Are you aware of what is shaping them, the filter your mind creates between reality and perception?

The overwhelming majority of the thoughts that come across my mind did not come from me. If I silence the thoughts, then I have silenced or blinded myself from whomever the thoughts came from.

There are techniques to utterly cease the function of mind unless it is needed. Quite often, our mind is racing and we can't stop it, our very attempt to stop is is merely another thought in a long line. I have certainly fought this for hours at a time in years gone by. You can choose whether these thoughts arise at all, it is unskillful to have them arise and then manage them as necessary, it wastes energy... you become a slave to mind.

It sounds like you firmly believe thoughts come from nowhere. You've entertained a few thoughts from me, so if you seriously feel like a slave or that you are wasting energy, then feel free to unplug and save energy.

You understand that thought distracts? It is not a symptom of concentration at all... it is the opposite of concentration.

If your goal is silence, then I agree. My goal is not silence.

You can choose to not add to a problem, for instance if you are having a issue with something, like maybe your car doesn't start in the morning. There are direct consequences, but why allow mood, for instance, to suffer based on this unfortunate event? Being in a bad mood isn't going to make the car start, but always we compound our problems and make them more difficult to deal with. If, now, because we are in a bad mood, we out and yell at a stranger or yell at our boss about how it isn't our fault the car won't start, what do you think the ramifications are? You might now get in a fight or fired when all the original issue was is that the car won't start... it is absurd how we go on doing this.

Do you think you are describing your behavior, or my behavior, as you say 'you', 'we', and 'our' ?!

 

[Lunitik]

It sounds like your one-ness is really alone-ness. Who do you think you have 100% "union" with? Keep in mind that you've said God has an ego and suffers from it, and have said that you merely mentioned God to appease me.

Totality of existence, the only true being, pure consciousness.

The overwhelming majority of the thoughts that come across my mind did not come from me. If I silence the thoughts, then I have silenced or blinded myself from whomever the thoughts came from.

This would seem logical right? It is not the case though, when mind ceases something happens. Mind is a function of ego, it is a doubt, a "me". Ego is a divine programming, we must deprogram to know what we are outside of the programming.

If this is not for you, that is fine, it isn't for everyone.

It sounds like you firmly believe thoughts come from nowhere. You've entertained a few thoughts from me, so if you seriously feel like a slave or that you are wasting energy, then feel free to unplug and save energy.

You have to find the plug to unplug it.

If your goal is silence, then I agree. My goal is not silence.

My goal is the Ultimate, anything less is selling yourself short.

Do you think you are describing your behavior, or my behavior, as you say 'you', 'we', and 'our' ?!

Neither, it was a generic example.

 

[luecy7]

Totality of existence, the only true being, pure consciousness.

So you think your friends and family do not have the only true being, or pure consciousness... but you do?

This would seem logical right? It is not the case though, when mind ceases something happens.

I'm sure something happens when you are brain dead.

Mind is a function of ego, it is a doubt, a "me". Ego is a divine programming, we must deprogram to know what we are outside of the programming.

If this is not for you, that is fine, it isn't for everyone.

You are quite the sneaky and dishonest salesman claiming what 'we must do', then saying that I don't have to.

You have to find the plug to unplug it.

What is your excuse: you haven't found it yet?

My goal is the Ultimate, anything less is selling yourself short.

So instead you sell your friends and family short, real short, according to you: 0%.

 

[Lunitik]

So you think your friends and family do not have the only true being, or pure consciousness... but you do?

It is all there is, it is not mine but most are less aware of it - it simply isn't their time yet.

I'm sure something happens when you are brain dead.

Perhaps, this isn't what I meant though.

You are quite the sneaky and dishonest salesman claiming what 'we must do', then saying that I don't have to.

Not at all, although expanding on this would not be useful.

What is your excuse: you haven't found it yet?

It isn't time.

So instead you sell your friends and family short, real short, according to you: 0%.

I sell no one short, I merely understand few are ready.

 

[Lunitik]

For expansion on this, I would recommend reading Maitreya Ishwara, but I am quite sure you would reject most of his words. I have confirmed his hypothesis and thus know the truth of them...

 

[luecy7]

It isn't time.

When you do unplug in the pursuit of the experience of the 100% union that you believe you will find, perhaps you will be able to speak more honestly about union? Until then it appears by your words that you are on the level of your friends and family, which you have verbally placed at: 0% union.

For expansion on this, I would recommend reading Maitreya Ishwara, but I am quite sure you would reject most of his words. I have confirmed his hypothesis and thus know the truth of them...

What is his hypothesis that you claim to know the truth of? From what little I have read from his website, I see polar differences between what you and he says of trust, faith, and the relationship with God.

 

[william b]

Lunatik, you seem like a pretentious tool.