What happened to me?

Waymarker said:
Which God were you praying to?
In a sense, praying/meditating is like tuning a radio to the correct channel, but there's a lot of gunk out there you have to avoid..
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That is an impossible question to answer in words, because God is a word that poorly describes. All names that I've used for God generally can be interpreted to mean something that can't be named at all. I've no way to name something that can't be named, so I'm not sure how to tell you what channel it was. I appreciate your warning about the gunk, too. What I think is that if there is gunk on 'Bad channels' then tuning the channel would require tuning the person's whole life rather than using a particular formula to say or a particular thing to think about. If I picked up some gunk it is probably more of a commentary about me than about anything I said or focused on. The whole idea of picking up something bad out there is complicated to me. Tons of stuff has been written about psychic activities, but I suspect a lot of it is bunk. I am probably not the one to ask.
 
Dream said:
That is an impossible question to answer in words, because God is a word that poorly describes. All names that I've used for God generally can be interpreted to mean something that can't be named at all. I've no way to name something that can't be named, so I'm not sure how to tell you what channel it was. I appreciate your warning about the gunk, too. What I think is that if there is gunk on 'Bad channels' then tuning the channel would require tuning the person's whole life rather than using a particular formula to say or a particular thing to think about. If I picked up some gunk it is probably more of a commentary about me than about anything I said or focused on. The whole idea of picking up something bad out there is complicated to me. Tons of stuff has been written about psychic activities, but I suspect a lot of it is bunk. I am probably not the one to ask.
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Kensho

Makyo
 
Dream said:
..All names that I've used for God generally can be interpreted to mean something that can't be named at all. I've no way to name something that can't be named, so I'm not sure how to tell you what channel it was..
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Many people have thrown themselves open to the whole range of spiritual frequencies on an "Is there anybody there?" approach and went on base their life on the "messages" they received, or even formed strange sects and cults.
Hence Jesus's warning that we should tune in only to him because only he is the Way and the Truth and that we can only reach God through him.
Shakespeare's Macbeth was in the habit of listening to demonic witches, and he realised too late that they'd led him up the garden path-"And be these juggling fiends no more believed that palter with us in a double sense..that win us with trifles then betray us in deepest confidence.."
 
Waymarker said:
Many people have thrown themselves open to the whole range of spiritual frequencies on an "Is there anybody there?" approach and went on base their life on the "messages" they received, or even formed strange sects and cults.
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You are talking about leaving open doorways for evil by emptying one's mind. I'm not one to do that, but I don't think demonic activity is that simple. In the parable of the 'Sower and the Seed' Jesus points out that the devil (the birds in the story) can't steal the seeds (gospel) unless the soil is hard (hard hearted). Its reasonable to say that humility can guard against all kinds of demonic activity or madness except maybe for epilepsy and physical ailments. I also think 'Demon' in the NT is a generic term for all kinds of sickness. Its true that Jesus talks to demons, but he also talks to storms. I'm sure if he had talked to a rock it could have answered him back.

Waymaker said:
Hence Jesus's warning that we should tune in only to him because only he is the Way and the Truth and that we can only reach God through him.
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He also says there is one house but many rooms. I really appreciate you and cautiously disagree for reasons I'll point out. In light of your interpretation of this verse, you may be wondering how Christians can coexist with other faiths, and you might think that Catholics are pagans. Let me point out something out.

In the passage about way, truth and life Jesus told his disciples that his Father's house had 'Many rooms', and he would go prepare one (literally 'A place') for them after which Jesus disciples asked him "How can we know the way?" The question "How can we know the way?" is the focus of all four gospels, because it highlights the message of the gospel that Jesus has been teaching all along. He teaches that the way comes by direct revelation from God, that the spirit is like wind and that the law was made to serve man. He overturns the insistence of the priests upon specific requirements for conversions on those grounds, and that's why the priests saw him as a threat. Jesus statement of "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no man comes to the Father but by me" is something that each of his followers should be able to repeat themselves. Its a restatement of other things Jesus and John said:

  • The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."
  • And Jesus said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things."
  • Jesus talking with a Samaritan woman who is living in sin and telling her worship at the temple is not necessary.
  • John answered, "No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven.
These and many other statements like them are what allowed gentiles to consider themselves part of Israel yet not be circumcised. You may recall Paul saying "Follow me as I follow Christ," which at first glance sounds idolatrous but he is only copying Jesus. When Jesus says "I am the way" he completely undermines the idea that there is only one specific method or that we are able to set up a particular method of conversion. He discredits all of the preachers out there who want you to tell your friends to come to their church so that they can get 'Properly fed'. This is the general gist of what both Jesus and John the Baptist taught and what Jesus said about the Father's house having many rooms.
 
Dream said:
In light of your interpretation of this verse...."I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no man comes to the Father but by me"...
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What 'interpretation' is needed?
It's in simple plain english isn't it?
Sorry I don't have time to cover all the other points you raised, but if you care to post them one by one, i can deal with them one by one..:)
 
Dream said:
You are talking about leaving open doorways for evil by emptying one's mind. I'm not one to do that, but I don't think demonic activity is that simple. In the parable of the 'Sower and the Seed' Jesus points out that the devil (the birds in the story) can't steal the seeds (gospel) unless the soil is hard (hard hearted). Its reasonable to say that humility can guard against all kinds of demonic activity or madness except maybe for epilepsy and physical ailments. I also think 'Demon' in the NT is a generic term for all kinds of sickness. Its true that Jesus talks to demons, but he also talks to storms. I'm sure if he had talked to a rock it could have answered him back.

He also says there is one house but many rooms. I really appreciate you and cautiously disagree for reasons I'll point out. In light of your interpretation of this verse, you may be wondering how Christians can coexist with other faiths, and you might think that Catholics are pagans. Let me point out something out.

In the passage about way, truth and life Jesus told his disciples that his Father's house had 'Many rooms', and he would go prepare one (literally 'A place') for them after which Jesus disciples asked him "How can we know the way?" The question "How can we know the way?" is the focus of all four gospels, because it highlights the message of the gospel that Jesus has been teaching all along. He teaches that the way comes by direct revelation from God, that the spirit is like wind and that the law was made to serve man. He overturns the insistence of the priests upon specific requirements for conversions on those grounds, and that's why the priests saw him as a threat. Jesus statement of "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no man comes to the Father but by me" is something that each of his followers should be able to repeat themselves. Its a restatement of other things Jesus and John said:

  • The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit."
  • And Jesus said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things."
  • Jesus talking with a Samaritan woman who is living in sin and telling her worship at the temple is not necessary.
  • John answered, "No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven.
These and many other statements like them are what allowed gentiles to consider themselves part of Israel yet not be circumcised. You may recall Paul saying "Follow me as I follow Christ," which at first glance sounds idolatrous but he is only copying Jesus. When Jesus says "I am the way" he completely undermines the idea that there is only one specific method or that we are able to set up a particular method of conversion. He discredits all of the preachers out there who want you to tell your friends to come to their church so that they can get 'Properly fed'. This is the general gist of what both Jesus and John the Baptist taught and what Jesus said about the Father's house having many rooms.
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a very interesting perspective, thanks Dream
 
What 'interpretation' is needed?
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Having an interpretation is a way to confess that only God is trustworthy.

It's in simple plain english isn't it?
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I speak American English. Its sort of like English.

Sorry I don't have time to cover all the other points you raised, but if you care to post them one by one, i can deal with them one by one..:)
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Don't feel pressured. I usually don't either and often select a piece that I feel represents the rest.
 
hi Dream, cheers, I'm deeply moved by how you've explained your experience with so much humility. I think in your past experience you went into a realm that cannot be explained in words. what matters is the effect it had in you.
I've never experienced anything alike but, in fact, I'm friends with some people that went through some events that would make any Cameron and Spielberg film look foolish, back in the 80's.
it was so nice to read this thread.
blessings.
 
Thanks Lorenzo, that is very moving and humbling. Truth is I have a 'Humility competition' going with some other people in the forum. But returning the complement, some Buddhists say that to the enlightened all people appear enlightened, and Titus 1:15 says "To the pure all things are pure..." Maybe you are humble yourself and therefore see other people that way?
 
well, other people say I'm humble. I live quite a solitary and happy life, and work as a technical translator at home, so I'm free from weary obligations. I use my spare time to spread the word of my mystical and angelic friends, because I can translate their works into English. I long for a deep mystical experience, a practical Faith... hope some day...
cheers!
 
Dream said:
Its interesting that a soul might be able to do all of that. Do you meditate frequently?
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Everyday :) but my favorite meditation is observation and I try to be aware of every feeling I have all the day.
 
Prasanam said:
Everyday :) but my favorite meditation is observation and I try to be aware of every feeling I have all the day.
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Oh interesting. I will look into that one.
 
A personal scripture was provided, that is what happened, a message about where to take your ventures next... nothing more, it cannot be more for it was transient.

Truth is that which ceases to be transient, do not stall until you arrive there.

If your own truth is that these messages become constant, this must be your truth - from where are the messages coming though? This is probably the best place to focus, for the predictions only serve to confirm for you that you are not crazy - if you see them coming to fruition, it must have been real.

If it is not what you expected, then your expectation was flawed. Seek something which correlates but can take you deeper into that. Meditation is a good start, but remember that meditation is not contemplation. When he says observe, he does not mean in an attached way. This is the true renunciation, understanding that you can watch it and thus it cannot be you. Can you watch what is watching? If you can, it mustn't be you either - but then what are you?

You are That, but to accept this statement is a belief... know it so that belief is not necessary.
 
Lunatic said:
A personal scripture was provided, that is what happened, a message about where to take your ventures next... nothing more, it cannot be more for it was transient.
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Thanks for the caution. I'm no prognosticator. It was a one time experience open and shut, unproven to anyone but myself and useless to pass on to anyone else except to get opinions on it. I'll only resist the urge to doubt myself about what happened.

If your own truth is that these messages become constant, this must be your truth - from where are the messages coming though? This is probably the best place to focus, for the predictions only serve to confirm for you that you are not crazy - if you see them coming to fruition, it must have been real.
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I was not damaged by the event. It sounds about as real as spontaneous combustion, but yes for me I take it as a real event. It is 'My truth' not necessarily important for anyone else.

If it is not what you expected, then your expectation was flawed. Seek something which correlates but can take you deeper into that.
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I intend to better myself, if that is what you meant. At some point I will move towards contemplating scripture instead of merely trying to comprehend it. I mean I'll start going over it to absorb the benefit. I can think of ways my expectation was flawed.
Meditation is a good start, but remember that meditation is not contemplation. When he says observe, he does not mean in an attached way. This is the true renunciation, understanding that you can watch it and thus it cannot be you. Can you watch what is watching? If you can, it mustn't be you either - but then what are you?
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I looked up 'Detached observation' and have been playing with it. Probably that and lovingkindness would be the two staple types of meditation for me, plus there is scripture to contemplate.
You are That, but to accept this statement is a belief... know it so that belief is not necessary.
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I don't understand this statement. Are you referring to the concepts of mu and of suchness, because I haven't fully baked those cookies yet. You may find me using the word belief from time to time, because its a word that wears many hats.
 
Dream said:
I was not damaged by the event. It sounds about as real as spontaneous combustion, but yes for me I take it as a real event. It is 'My truth' not necessarily important for anyone else.
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Buddhists have a name for what it sounds like you experienced, actually: kensho. That you were not damaged, you should use as ammunition for when you decide to rediscover that place. You mind will fight, it knows what you are doing even if you do not. It will attempt to stop you, you will come across material that will say that more intense experiences of this can even kill you, but always remember that you came out fine and diligently find the way back in. In Christianity, it is what I mean by "baptized by fire", for no Christian can define it in a meaningful way.

Dream said:
At some point I will move towards contemplating scripture instead of merely trying to comprehend it.
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Why go back to scripture? If I am right that it is a kensho then you have graduated from scripture officially, you cannot go further by learning, only way to go deeper is to understand what has triggered this so you can maintain it and explore it.

Dream said:
I looked up 'Detached observation' and have been playing with it. Probably that and lovingkindness would be the two staple types of meditation for me, plus there is scripture to contemplate.
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Why do you say you do these separately? You cannot love in a detached way? You cannot observe the effects of your kindness in a detached way, see how your simple act has effected another and understand how things relate without attaching yourself to it all directly? When they are not combined, they are completely opposite paths, you will be undoing each with what is accomplished with the other.

Disconnected observation is the bath to nothingness, where love blossoms. Meditation of loving kindness is the path of love, where nothingness blossoms. They are totally different - although the result is a merging of all extremes including these.

Dream said:
I don't understand this statement. Are you referring to the concepts of mu and of suchness, because I haven't fully baked those cookies yet. You may find me using the word belief from time to time, because its a word that wears many hats.
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I have intended you to infer the "I connected with something big and amazing". You did not connect at all, you merely realized you weren't separate, this has always been the case but you did not know it, you forgot. This is a kensho, it is temporary and can only be looked back at through duality so it is difficult to express. Now, you have known enlightenment, the state of oneness, you know your true nature so now it is only necessary to discover how to return and explore. This seems easy, it is not very easy however because you probably don't have a clear idea of what exactly happened - what was the state of mind at the time? This has been all I have tried to portray on this site until now, how others can return home, trust that it will not damage you either next time and you can get there if you want. You can visit whenever you like if you are dilligent, but do not allow yourself to be distracted into more learning - you already know.

What you have done is turned consciousness back on itself, for you have asked it to look at its own concept of a concept. It cannot fathom it, it has ceased and so all the fallacies it has been programmed with have ceased as well. Without the veil, you were able to look at the real, but quickly mind wanted to know what is this now, so it is back and the experience has stopped.
 
Lunatik said:
Buddhists have a name for what it sounds like you experienced, actually: kensho. That you were not damaged, you should use as ammunition for when you decide to rediscover that place. ... In Christianity, it is what I mean by "baptized by fire", for no Christian can define it in a meaningful way.
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Thanks for that advice. I am very familiar with 'Baptized by fire' though never have been able to experience it in the expected fashion. I understand you place a low value on that kind of Christianity from things you are saying, but lets not talk about it at the moment.

Why go back to scripture? If I am right that it is a kensho then you have graduated from scripture officially
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I'm acquainted with scripture. Its like a microcosm. From what I understand there is normally a type of meditation that goes with the scripture, but I'm not familiar with it. What's interesting is the scripture is itself considered to be alive though you perceive it instantaneously as dead. I'm very curious about that and buy into it. It could be that there are more veils than one or that enlightenment is itself only a level of perception. Yes, I'm curious about scripture.

Why do you say you do these separately? You cannot love in a detached way? You cannot observe the effects of your kindness in a detached way, see how your simple act has effected another and understand how things relate without attaching yourself to it all directly? When they are not combined, they are completely opposite paths, you will be undoing each with what is accomplished with the other.
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You're asking very personal questions, but I believe you're sincere. I'm a person who is not enlightened daily, yet. I understand what you're saying. I have loved deeply but have usually not thought about it detachedly, and often things I do are not strictly out of love for myself and others. I'm having to separate things out.

Disconnected observation is the bath to nothingness, where love blossoms. Meditation of loving kindness is the path of love, where nothingness blossoms. They are totally different - although the result is a merging of all extremes including these.
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I understand what you're saying here and also about the perception of separation. The meaning of connection is spoken in terms of separation, because we perceive everything as a separation. If I say 'One' its automatically about something separate from everything else. To talk about time as a unity I have to say 'Viewing time from outside of time'. Gravity is a connection between most things, but even Gravity is defined in terms of separations. Its a force(1) acting through a distance(2).

I have intended you to infer the "I connected with something big and amazing". You did not connect at all, you merely realized you weren't separate, this has always been the case but you did not know it, you forgot. This is a kensho, it is temporary and can only be looked back at through duality so it is difficult to express.
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Ok.

Now, you have known enlightenment, the state of oneness, you know your true nature so now it is only necessary to discover how to return and explore. This seems easy, it is not very easy however because you probably don't have a clear idea of what exactly happened - what was the state of mind at the time? This has been all I have tried to portray on this site until now, how others can return home, trust that it will not damage you either next time and you can get there if you want. You can visit whenever you like if you are dilligent, but do not allow yourself to be distracted into more learning - you already know.
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I follow what you're getting at. I remember some of how I got there, but many things have transpired since then that are like clutter. In a way it is like forgetting, and cleaning up the clutter will be like remembering.

I will think about these things you've said.
Thanks sincerely!
 
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