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Fardin9

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Any website that promotes inter-faith dialogue is a commendable endeavour. For this reason, I would humbly suggest that the authors include The Baha'i Faith among the front-page list of "World Religions". Infact, I just stumbled across this website and was a little surprised not to see the Baha'i Faith officially listed (except on various threads and in published news articles - which importantly bring the persecution of Baha'is in Iran to your readers' attention).

This is not a complaint, but hopefully a constructive suggestion to add value to an already valuable interfaith resource; not least because of the Baha'i Faith's long-standing affiliation with the Interfaith Organizantion, but also as an acknowledgment of the core Baha'i principle of the essential oneness of all religion.

"Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship".
- Baha'u'llah

Just as a post-script, with regard to the Baha'i Faith being a "Modern Religion", while this may be correct in chronological terms, Baha'is believe that there is only one religion and all of the Messengers of God have revealed its nature in progressive stages down the ages in accordance with the capacities of civilization at the time of their revelation - a single unfolding Divine plan, "the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future."
​
 
Fardin9 said:
Any website that promotes inter-faith dialogue is a commendable endeavour. For this reason, I would humbly suggest that the authors include The Baha'i Faith among the front-page list of "World Religions".
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My 2 cents. When comparing the adherents to various world religions it would seem since Shinto and Zoroastrianism are on the charts...maybe Bahai needs a page. (Red are listed on the 'front page' under world religions)

  1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
  2. Islam: 1.5 billion
  3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
  4. Hinduism: 900 million
  5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million (Confucianism, Taoism)
  6. Buddhism: 376 million
  7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
  8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
  9. Sikhism: 23 million
  10. Juche: 19 million
  11. Spiritism: 15 million
  12. Judaism: 14 million
  13. Baha'i: 7 million
  14. Jainism: 4.2 million
  15. Shinto: 4 million
  16. Cao Dai: 4 million
  17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
  18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
  19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
  20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
  21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
  22. Scientology: 500 thousand
Fardin9 said:
Infact, I just stumbled across this website and was a little surprised not to see the Baha'i Faith officially listed (except on various threads and in published news articles - which importantly bring the persecution of Baha'is in Iran to your readers' attention).

This is not a complaint, but hopefully a constructive suggestion to add value to an already valuable interfaith resource; not least because of the Baha'i Faith's long-standing affiliation with the Interfaith Organizantion, but also as an acknowledgment of the core Baha'i principle of the essential oneness of all religion.
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Your request is not a small one, as you can clearly see the owner of this site has put in a lot of time and effort. In my experience if you would like someone to do something you make it as easy as possible. "Hey, I'd love to assist on your Interfaith page. I'll put four pages of information together for you, similar to what you've done with other religions and get them reviewed and approved by our faith leaders, forward them to you for your review and edit notes. I'll make the edits, get approval again from our HQ and send you a final copy for publication on your site." No guarantee that that would work....however it is much better than "you should do XX"
"Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship".
- Baha'u'llah​


Just as a post-script, with regard to the Baha'i Faith being a "Modern Religion", while this may be correct in chronological terms, Baha'is believe that there is only one religion and all of the Messengers of God have revealed its nature in progressive stages down the ages in accordance with the capacities of civilization at the time of their revelation - a single unfolding Divine plan, "the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future."​
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How do I compare what I've highlighted in Blue with the statement of the Bahaullah that you quoted.

And how do I differentiate this from any other religion that says we are the only one and true religion?

I don't understand how these are congruent....we are interfaith, but as we are the culmination and the religion that naturally follows and has superceded whatever religion you believe in we are more interfaith than the restuvya?
 
Wil,

I agree with what the Baha'i quote is saying -- that there is only one 'real' religion, and that all of today's 'modern' religions are nothing more than offshoots from this one 'real' religion. So I see the two as being congruent.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Wil,

I agree with what the Baha'i quote is saying -- that there is only one 'real' religion, and that all of today's 'modern' religions are nothing more than offshoots from this one 'real' religion. So I see the two as being congruent.
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So you agree the only one true religion is as stated by the Bahai? That all other beliefs are now superceded?

I also agree there is only one religion, one all encompassing belief, but each religion is there for its adherants towards a common end.
 
"Certain religious teachers, however, think only of their creeds. They believe a holy war can conquer the world. They reason thus:

"All the other religious teachers are in error and I am obliged to chastise them and show them their mistakes for their own salvation."

The belief of the friends of God is quite different. They believe that one must affiliate with all, love all humanity and seek ever to better its condition. God is one, the true shepherd of all creation. Let us be kind to every one in order to unify the world and spread affection abroad.

Let us be ready to give our lives, our fortunes, positions, achievements, in order that a new state of existence may be diffused throughout the earth.

There are fellow-beings who are weaker than we are, let us strengthen them; there are those who are more ignorant, we must teach them; some are as children, help them to develop; many are asleep, awaken them; others are ill, heal them; never despise them. Be kinder to them than to the stronger ones. One must always be kinder to the weak and ill and to the children. Never seek to humiliate your brother."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 97
 
The membership statistics are grossly inflated for the Haifan Baha'i denomination. That's a fact that's widely recognized by many people, Bahai or otherwise. See for instance,

Google "Estimates of the Baha'i membership" on religioustolerance dot org

Google False Statistics for Baha'i Membership in the USA, India, & Elsewhere

The U. S. Federal Courts Ruled *Three Times* against Wilmette, Haifan Baha'is, who were trying to deprive other Bahai denominations of their First Amendment rights to religious freedom:

November 23, 2010 - Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals rules against Haifan Baha'is of Wilmette, Illinois. A link to the Court's own Opinion in the case is available online. Google Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience

I don't believe any Bahai denomination belongs in the first rank of the major religions while it says one thing in public and behaves the way the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is do in the dark.
 
wil said:
Your request is not a small one, ....however it is much better than "you should do XX"


I don't understand how these are congruent....we are interfaith, but as we are the culmination and the religion that naturally follows and has superceded whatever religion you believe in we are more interfaith than the restuvya?
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Sorry, I can't do neatly formatted multi-quotes, but to address some of your points...

Firstly, there was no "You should" in my post. It was a suggestion for the authors of the website. However,assuming that the purpose of this site is to promote dialogue between followers of various beliefs, I expressed surprise at the omission of the one faith whose teachings eloquently reconcile the outward differences of the various faiths, unifying them in one unique expression of God's unfolding plan for mankind.

Secondly, I'm a little confused by the "more interfaith than the restuvya" comment. Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to intimate that true "interfaith" is when religions stay separate but work together? To what end, exactly? I mean, in a funny sort of way, I agree with you! That's what most people's idea of interfaith is - dialogue from a position of seperateness - finding some semblance of commonality that will help us get along a little better, but without actually arriving at an acknowledgement of our inseperability and shared destiny. Set in a Baha'i context, the term "interfaith" can become somewhat semantically redundant as we do not recognize any divisions between the faiths, other than them representing progressive stages in the spiritual and social evolvement of mankind through a series of divine teachers. I'm not going to go into the Baha'i teachings on "Progressive Revelation" as I'm sure it's been covered before...but let the seeker seek for him/herself.

p.s. I actually wonder at what people mean by "paganism". Baha'is believe that God has sent divine teachers to educate mankind since the creation of man and will continue to do so until the end of time. The concept of a monotheistic God arguably began with Abraham, when mankind had reached a state of intellectual and spiritual receptivity to be able to contemplate an all-powerful being which had no physical shape or form. It is entirely possible that more primitive cultures were sent divine teachers that taught about God symbolically, through signs evident in nature and the natural forces around them - all of which are indeed reflections of the divine kingdom manifested in the physical world. This is not an official Baha'i view, just mine.
 
Wil

p.s.s It was nice chatting with you. I'm not really a forum-posting type of guy so don't feel ignored if I fail to respond to any subsequent replies. But no doubt I will read them.
 
Fardin9 said:
Sorry, I can't do neatly formatted multi-quotes, but to address some of your points...
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My method....hit the quote button. Move the / from the second box to the first so instead of endquoting my quote, I'm endquoting your quote. Then copy your =name0958213058 into the second box. copy the whole thing and then insert it wherever you want to respond...
Fardin9 said:
Firstly, there was no "You should" in my post. It was a suggestion for the authors of the website. However,assuming that the purpose of this site is to promote dialogue between followers of various beliefs, I expressed surprise at the omission of the one faith whose teachings eloquently reconcile the outward differences of the various faiths, unifying them in one unique expression of God's unfolding plan for mankind.
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You haven't been omitted, you are here, and fairly active. But again, I guess this is me, your response is not any different from a Moslem or Catholic or Mormon, saying "We are the only one and true religion and you all need to join us"
Fardin9 said:
Secondly, I'm a little confused by the "more interfaith than the restuvya" comment. Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to intimate that true "interfaith" is when religions stay separate but work together?
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No just honoring that others are on other paths, we don't need ot accentuate our seperateness, we can accentuate our commanilities, but just allow others to be who they are, with what they believe without any condensention of yeah...but if you'd really like ot know the truth you need to join us.
Fardin9 said:
To what end, exactly? I mean, in a funny sort of way, I agree with you! That's what most people's idea of interfaith is - dialogue from a position of seperateness - finding some semblance of commonality that will help us get along a little better, but without actually arriving at an acknowledgement of our inseperability and shared destiny. Set in a Baha'i context, the term "interfaith" can become somewhat semantically redundant as we do not recognize any divisions between the faiths, other than them representing progressive stages in the spiritual and social evolvement of mankind through a series of divine teachers.
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So the only differences you see in the faiths is that they are all outdated and old information, like using an abacus or trying to multiply with roman numerals, or not believing anything you can't see with your naked eye? Well I guess that should satisfy and edify all the billions that aren't Bahai.
Fardin9 said:
I'm not going to go into the Baha'i teachings on "Progressive Revelation" as I'm sure it's been covered before...but let the seeker seek for him/herself.

p.s. I actually wonder at what people mean by "paganism". Baha'is believe that God has sent divine teachers to educate mankind since the creation of man and will continue to do so until the end of time. The concept of a monotheistic God arguably began with Abraham, when mankind had reached a state of intellectual and spiritual receptivity to be able to contemplate an all-powerful being which had no physical shape or form. It is entirely possible that more primitive cultures were sent divine teachers that taught about God symbolically, through signs evident in nature and the natural forces around them - all of which are indeed reflections of the divine kingdom manifested in the physical world. This is not an official Baha'i view, just mine.
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Now there is something interesting there. In the progression of religions thoughts....the multiple G!ds of nature...when they were teaching the pagans...were they multiple...and then as the G!ds got together and became one they conveyed this to Abraham? As they were still multiple when they were with Adam?

Something fun to play with.
 
Fardin9 said:
Baha'is believe that there is only one religion...
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Whilst there may be only one God (and a Buddhist would not be inclined to agree with that), that does not necessarily mean there is only one religion.

I would recommend Frithjof Schuon's "The Transcendent Unity of Religions" which deals with the question thoroughly.

In short, a Revealed Tradition is complete and entire in itself, it requires no exterior augmentation or completion, it is not contingent, relative nor provisional, there is nothing it does not have, no missing key or last link, that the seeker needs to attain its promise, so in that sense revelations are not 'progressive'.

(Indeed, if they were, then most Messengers — Moses, Christ, Buddha, and so on — lied to their audiences.)

Fardin9 said:
and all of the Messengers of God have revealed its nature in progressive stages down the ages in accordance with the capacities of civilization at the time of their revelation
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Again, that would require the Message of the Baha's to encompass and surpass everything that has gone before — that the Baha'i faith is a kind of meta-, über- or super-religion. I think that something of an assumption, quite frankly, and as the Baha'i I have spoken to seem quite ignorant of the basic 'nature' of the Christian message, I think it's an unfounded assumption.

Fardin9 said:
... a single unfolding Divine plan, "the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future."
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That's hardly original, nor revelatory ... the Jews, the Christians and the Mosslems all believe that.

As for dialogue, in my experience, Baha'i insist that the fundamentals of my doctrine are wrong — they dispute the Incarnation, they dispute the Trinity, they dispute the Sacraments — so the dialogue usually runs to being told everything I believe in is wrong, and presumably the same applies to other traditions.

Indeed, how do the Baha'i talk to non-theist traditions?

God bless,

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
In short, a Revealed Tradition is complete and entire in itself, it requires no exterior augmentation or completion, it is not contingent, relative nor provisional, there is nothing it does not have, no missing key or last link, that the seeker needs to attain its promise, so in that sense revelations are not 'progressive'.

(Indeed, if they were, then most Messengers — Moses, Christ, Buddha, and so on — lied to their audiences.)
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Welcome back Thomas!

The quibbler in me wonders if Buddhism is a Revealed Tradition?
 
I might have thought that any faith that has suffered persecution would not make such an arrogant claim. But then there's a lot of it about.
 
@wil

You've got a lot of atheists annoyed at number 3 in your list of religions :p
 
Snoopy said:
The total rejection of all religions as bunk does not constitute a religion :)
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bunk is not a belief that they adhere to?

Does an atheist reject all religions or just a concept of G!d?

I mean many folks are anti religious, but believers in G!d.

Is atheism not a faith?

if not than what would an atheist be doing on an interfaith site?
 
Hi Snoopy —
Snoopy said:
The quibbler in me wonders if Buddhism is a Revealed Tradition?
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So do I.

I leave it up to the Buddhists to decide ... I have a lot of respect for Marco Pallis, a Tibetan Buddhist and Traditionalist, who saw both 'revelation' and 'grace' operative in Buddhism, although not necessarily as a Christian would understand it.

God bless,

Thomas
 
wil said:
bunk is not a belief that they adhere to?

Does an atheist reject all religions or just a concept of G!d?

I mean many folks are anti religious, but believers in G!d.

Is atheism not a faith?

if not than what would an atheist be doing on an interfaith site?
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Hey don't shoot the messenger! Atheists do not reject all religions only to be categorised as some religious group themselves.

They are not a faith group. You'd have to ask atheists why they go on religious forums. Perhaps to disavow the deluded? Perhaps to have an argument?
 
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