Emanations of Men

[Ben Masada]

Emanations of Men

In good men, they are called angels. In bad men men, they are called demons. Either way, they originate in men. They are our own anxieties, feelings, pains, preayers, wishes, desires, dreams, plans, thoughts, etc.

According to Sigmund Freud, these emanations are personified in our dreams as unfulfilled wishes during the conscious part of our days.

As Jacob went out from Beersheba toward Haran, he lighted upon a certain place, which he later called Betel, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set. He set some stones for his pillows and lay down to sleep. And he had a dream.

Behold, in his dream, a ladder was set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold the angels of God ascended and descended on it.

Interesting to notice, the angels would first ascend and then descend on the ladder. It means that the angels were emanations that were issued from Jacob in terms of his anxieties in desperation for an answer from God to his uncertainties about his future in a strange land where he knew and was known of none. (Gen. 28:10-15)

In the morning Jacob's fears were gone. He had all the answers to his emanations, and also in emanations of certainties back to him from God.
(Gen. 28:16-22)

Conclusion: That's what angels are. Emanations which get personified in the dreams of unfulfilled wishes in the awaken state. Then, in the NT, they took the form of divine beings, and Hellenism took care that it became a mystery.
Ben

 

[Etu Malku]

If no one were to 'invent' these creatures do you really think they would pop up in your dreams? According to Jung these are archetypal structures that are a part of the Collective Unconsciousness, in order for them to be a part of this they had to be 'designed' by Mankind's imagination first.

In a non-indoctrinated psyche these 'emanations' will never appear and no one would speak of them for they need to be created first by imagination like a fiction character.

 

[Ben Masada]

If no one were to 'invent' these creatures do you really think they would pop up in your dreams? According to Jung these are archetypal structures that are a part of the Collective Unconsciousness, in order for them to be a part of this they had to be 'designed' by Mankind's imagination first.

In a non-indoctrinated psyche these 'emanations' will never appear and no one would speak of them for they need to be created first by imagination like a fiction character.

That's exactly what they are, either our own anxieties and feelings and ideals or they are just the product of our own imaginations. They do not exist, as real invisible beings as religious people believe they do.
Ben

 

[bob x]

The reconceptualization of "angels" from the Hebrew to the Greek scriptures had a lot to do with the Persian influence, in my view (about the only thing mojobadshah and I have been able to agree on!) We find similar quasi-divine angels in the intertestamental literature which has "fallen between two chairs" (not in the Jewish Bible because it was too late, and not in Christian Bibles because it was too early) but reflects varieties of Judaism that existed before the (largely Pharisaism-based) consensus Judaism of the post-Temple period.

 

[radarmark]

So, bob x, they have come to influence both chairs (OT as verbal history that could have survived the Talmudic period and NT as verbal history overlaying the written word)? And the scriptural hints we have are manifestations of this influence (late for OT, erly for NT)?

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

 

[bob x]

The "Talmudic" interpretations of the OT discard the pseudo-Zoroastrian baggage of the intertestamentary period. Ben Masada's reading of "angels" and "devils" as purely metaphorical expressions for internal human states of mind, rather than as literal entities with separate existence, is characteristic of Judaism since the Talmudic period, and truer to the original Hebrew tradition than the variant Judaism which is the background of the NT.

 

[Dream]

It has implications for understanding the gospels.

John 1:51 And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."

 

[donnann]

It has implications for understanding the gospels.

John 1:51 And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."

Good quote for the proof of angels.

 

[Etu Malku]

Good quote for the proof of angels.

That proves nothing, other than the bible authors believed there to be angels.

 

[donnann]

That proves nothing, other than the bible authors believed there to be angels.

Well angels exist whether people believe it or not, cant change facts but most people are religious and all the holy books talk about angels.

 

[Ben Masada]

It has implications for understanding the gospels.

John 1:51 And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."

I see this as an evidence that Christianity has fabricated the literal anthropomorphic interpretation of angels.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Good quote for the proof of angels.

Now, you can angel yourself into a good sleeping night. Good night Donnann.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Well angels exist whether people believe it or not, cant change facts but most people are religious and all the holy books talk about angels.

Metaphorically Donnann. There is nothing literal about angels.
Ben

 

[Dream]

I see this as an evidence that Christianity has fabricated the literal anthropomorphic interpretation of angels.
Ben

Why not? However it seems more likely to me that there was at least originally a duel interpretation, just as there seems to be one in the ancient scriptures where angels talk and wrestle. The more modern version of an angel could have come about from a surface reading of scripture.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why not? However it seems more likely to me that there was at least originally a duel interpretation, just as there seems to be one in the ancient scriptures where angels talk and wrestle. The more modern version of an angel could have come about from a surface reading of scripture.

Oh! There is no doubt about it. Angels can do all kinds of things from talking, to eating and wrestling, but all in the dreams and visions of the prophets and of dreamers in general. (Numb. 12:6) That's when they take the form of man and act like man. In a word, anthropomorphism of emanations.
Ben

 

[donnann]

Metaphorically Donnann. There is nothing literal about angels.
Ben

Actually there is. Heavenly beings come from the heavenly universe which exists outside this universe and are much bigger,made up of more light, have wings, and their hearts are in the middle of their chests. The earthly universe was created in the image of the heavenly universe but is smaller , humans have hearts on the side , no wings , and are smaller. Thats the difference. The pics in churches and accounts of people seeing them are true.

 

[Ben Masada]

Actually there is. Heavenly beings come from the heavenly universe which exists outside this universe and are much bigger,made up of more light, have wings, and their hearts are in the middle of their chests. The earthly universe was created in the image of the heavenly universe but is smaller , humans have hearts on the side , no wings , and are smaller. Thats the difference. The pics in churches and accounts of people seeing them are true.

Well, since angels have two wings, we must have two hearts, right? Please, Donnann, have mercy on our eyes to read such a nonsense!
Ben

 

[donnann]

Well, since angels have two wings, we must have two hearts, right? Please, Donnann, have mercy on our eyes to read such a nonsense!
Ben

No the hearts of men are on the sides because they are not as complex as angelic beings. Angelic beings are more center. Human beings are....females left, males right.

 

[donnann]

No the hearts of men are on the sides because they are not as complex as angelic beings. Angelic beings are more center. Human beings are....females left, males right.

Each angelic being does have a counterpart though but it faces each other instead of being left and right.

 

[Ben Masada]

No the hearts of men are on the sides because they are not as complex as angelic beings. Angelic beings are more center. Human beings are....females left, males right.

"Angelic beings with their hearts on the center!" Is this for the laughs or for the gags? If my saying that angels are emanations is too strong for you, let us use the word spirits. If you want to talk about hearts in the center of angelic bodies, at least, mention that you are talking metaphorically. It will, at least, add some points to your credibility. Spirits are incorporeal. There are no organs in incorporeality.
Ben